The Third Secret

[pnewton]

This is very interesting.

Lets face up to something that is not popular to even suggest. There can be people, priests, bishops, within the vatican who have given them selves over to the Evil One. And one day, like it or not, after the real catholics, christians, are taken away, or killed ( along with all those dead priests in the letter), only the evil will be left. And they will misuse the vatican, the government of the church, for the use of the anti-christ.

We were warned. Do not get caught up in the tail of the dragon and it is an end-times warning. Do not be deceived.

Even pope benendict is , by church prophecy of St, malachy, supposed to be the next to last true pope.

This is not the doctrine of the faith of the Catholic Church. Martin Malichi has not been canonized, beatified or even very recognized. Our Holy Father, Pope Benedict XVI walks in the shoes of Peter, leading the Bride of Christ the will withstand the gates of Hell, this “prophecy” not withstanding.

 

[Victorious]

Hmmm…where to start?

We have other approved apparitions like Akita warning of satanic infiltration of the Church, and the Chief Exorcist making public pronouncements that this is happening now.

I am familiar with Fr. Gabriele Amorth, and I read his book An Exorcist Tells His Story. However, while Fr. Amorth is an exorcist, I don’t think there is such a thing as the “Chief Exorcist” of Rome.

What is the humor in this? What you should be believing is the visionary Sister Lucia, who herself said there was more to the third secret. She is the source of all of this isn’t she.

Sr. Lucia said that there were no more secrets, and that all had been revealed.

Yes, he knew he was going to be shot, but I believe he also knew he would not die.

I was under the impression that JPII did not read the Third Secret until after the assassination attempt. Always subject to being proved wrong, of course.

This is the statement from the Holy See:

“The message of Fatima is a call to conversion, alerting humanity to have nothing to do with the ‘dragon’ whose ‘tail swept down a third of the stars of heaven, and cast them to the earth’ (Apoc. 12:4).” – Pope John Paul II, Homily, Fatima, May 13, 2000.

And this has been popularly understood by Catholic scholars to be referring to satanic infiltration of the Catholic clergy. These clergy will take millions of their laypersons along with them – the people who practice blind obedience to everything and abandon their own internal conscience that God gave them.

That’s not the real Third Secret of Fatima.

The real Third Secret of Fatima was introduced by Pope John Paul II on May 13, 2000, in a homily during the beatification of two of the seers. In this homily, Pope JPII said the message of Fatima was a warning to have nothing to do with the tail of the dragon, citing Apocalypse 12:3-4.

This chapter and verse has been interpreted by Church scholars to be a warning that many Catholic clergy will turn evil as the end times approach, and millions of blindly obedient laypersons will follow them.

This is strongly reinforced by Cardinal Ratzinger’s comments in 1984 in Jesus Magazine when he said the Third Secret deals with the importance of the “end times” and dangers threatening the faith and lives of Christians. This was three years after the failed assassination attempt, and nothing was said about it in connection to the Third Secret.

I don’t see the alleged inconsistency between these comments and the text of the Third Secret, unless you are taking the position that the Third Secret must contain some explicit reference to the end times, persecutions and the tail of the dragon. However, the Third Secret, which, on its face, appears to be a symbolic rather than a literal narrative, does not need to contain these explicit references in order not to be inconsistent with these comments. The tail of the dragon is the devil, and the whole message of Fatima is to reject Satan and all his works, and be converted – really, in short, to live up to our baptismal vows. As for the “end times,” we have, in a way, been in the “end times” ever since the death and resurrection of Jesus, because at that point, Satan’s fate was sealed, and we entered into an age of grace. We were also warned, however – by our Founder Himself – that dangers would always threaten the faith and lives of Christians.

Calmly sitting there and listening is not the same thing as calmly accepting. And I don’t see why you can’t imagine her sitting there quietly given that she had already been doing that for the last forty years after the 1960 deadline had come and gone. She was also under orders and had restrictions placed on her.

There was no 1960 “deadline” imposed by the Blessed Mother or the Lord. When asked why the Secret should not be disclosed before 1960, Sr. Lucia said: “It was not Our Lady. I fixed the date because I had the intuition that before 1960 it would not be understood, but that only later would it be understood. Now it can be better understood. I wrote down what I saw; however it was not for me to interpret it, but for the Pope."

This is very interesting.

Lets face up to something that is not popular to even suggest. There can be people, priests, bishops, within the vatican who have given them selves over to the Evil One. And one day, like it or not, after the real catholics, christians, are taken away, or killed ( along with all those dead priests in the letter), only the evil will be left. And they will misuse the vatican, the government of the church, for the use of the anti-christ.

We were warned. Do not get caught up in the tail of the dragon and it is an end-times warning. Do not be deceived.

Even pope benendict is , by church prophecy of St, malachy, supposed to be the next to last true pope.

Something we’re forgetting here that needs to be remembered: Jesus promised that the gates of hell would never prevail against His Church.

As for the alleged 12th-century “prophecy” of St. Malachy, this did not materialize until 1595. Furthermore, Jesus stated: “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only” (Matthew 24:36), so I doubt seriously that this huge secret (which is what the “Prophecy of the Popes” is in essence alleged to be) was vouchsafed to a 12th-century Irish bishop, however virtuous he was.

 

[Hesychios]

…Do you really think she should be called just “Mary”? Think about it. **She is the Mother of Jesus Christ! **She should be thought of as something as Bless-ed as she is.

The Holy Theotokos works for me!

Or if you prefer, Holy Christotokos.

 

[O.S.Luke]

Θεοτόκος works for me.

O+

 

[Doxiemom]

Yes, But i did not say that the gates of hell would harm “the Church”. The true Church, the believers catholics and other christians, is no longer here. There will still be a Vatican, still be priests, and bishops, and even that false pope who very well could be what is called in Scripture "the false prophet.

This will be a vatican that is a building devoid of any image of Christ. The government , as an entity, not containg anyone left who is true to Christ,. They will galdly give themselves over to the anti-christ, , they were never part of Christ anyways. Imagine a vatican with no crucifixes, no art, no Cistine Chapel, all descrated and destroyed. All the vaults with its vast sacred treasures , gone. Old the old handwritten beautiful bibles, gone.

Rome is that city of seven hills and we do ourselves a big disservice not to acknowledge that there will be an anti-chrsit who sits on those seven hills.

There has to be a one world religion to come. It is Written. And by understanding and aceepting it, we need not fear. For the Church, is to be alive and well with A King Jesus. And We shall return in triump and He will rule from Jerusalem.

Our Catholic Church has served our Lord well. We have kept the apostolic line from Peter down through the centuries. We have celebrated Mass after Mass and have been true to His Body and His Blood.

 

[Victorious]

Yes, But i did not say that the gates of hell would harm “the Church”. The true Church, the believers catholics and other christians, is no longer here. There will still be a Vatican, still be priests, and bishops, and even that false pope who very well could be what is called in Scripture "the false prophet.

Uhhhh…no. This is not Catholic. The Pope is not Antichrist. The true Church will endure on earth to the end of time, and the true Church will always be identifiable. Jesus gave us St. Peter and his successors as visible heads precisely so that we will always be able to identify the true Church. We have never, and will never, have a false Pope. There may be anti-popes: there have been anti-popes in the past, and there are anti-popes even now. But St. Peter has always had, and will always have, a legitimate successor. Therefore, we Catholics never have, and never will have, an excuse to reject the authority of the Apostles and their successors. There is no dichotomy between Christ and His Church; you can’t claim to be loyal to one over the other.

Furthermore, no Pope will ever preach heresy, because the Holy Spirit will never permit it. Even if a Pope were determined to define a heresy as doctrine, he would be prevented from doing so, even stricken dead if necessary. To believe that a Pope will preach heresy is to deny the doctrine of infallibility which we are bound as Catholics to accept. Evil men may take command, but they will never be allowed to sink the Barque of Peter.

By the way, recommended reading: Dialogue Concerning Heresies by St. Thomas More.

 

[pnewton]

Rome is that city of seven hills and we do ourselves a big disservice not to acknowledge that there will be an anti-chrsit who sits on those seven hills.

I have heard many other anticatholics go into this same patter. Despite all your insight and vision you miss the fact that the Vatican is not one of the seven hills and is outside of the city of Rome at the time of the writing of Revelation.

This bizarre tale of the end and interpretation of Revelation is not Catholic teaching.

 

[Doxiemom]

Actually, according to the catachsim, it is perfectly allowed to accept any kind of tribualtion. The church, while it leans towards an amillinial view, does give some credence to these other scenerios.

If you will note, I never said that there will not be a church, it will always be alive, here or for a while with Jesus as our King.

I also never suggested that a true pope will be anything other than that. A true pope will always speak, when he speaks infallible, through the Holy Spirit.

You also miss the point that true christians will not have an opportunity to reject the authority of the sucessor to peter, because that sucessor will be either here (visalbe to us) or in Heaven, for a while (still visable to us). because we will be where he is.

But can you not admit that when the wonderful day comes that our Lord Jesus Christ comes, and he will Come again, that He will surpass all authority of the papacy. There will be no need for a papacy.

Since our faith is the Roman Catholic faith, it is reasonalbe to link the City of Rome with it. yes, I know that the City of the Vatican is technically outside of the present day city limits of Rome, it is actually a state of its own. But “Rome” is far more than a city, when you are reading of Rome in Scripture.

I am by no means anti-catholic and is as ardent a defender of my church as I can be. But to think in these terms is only reading prophecy as it to yet be fulfilled.

I have read the “other” interruptations of the Book of revelation of Jesus Christ as told to John. And, as always, prophecy can mean more than one thing at the same time. it often speaks to more than one time, event.

But no matter what your “trib” stance is, it is clear: there will be an anti-christ, a false prophet, a one world system of government, religion, and money. There will judgements. The Jews will see Jesus whom they pierced and mourn. They will see Messiah. The time is to be fullfilled. There will be a jerusalem with King Jesus, after he goes through the Eastern gate, and he will sit on David’s throne. There will have been many wars that lead up to the battle in meggido (armageddon). God will do a powerful something to save Israel.

And then there will the end of this age( world without end) and the world will be made new. There will be a new jerusalem and we will come and go from it.

As I said, what is left of the exisiting system, the world wide reach of that system, has no true catholics in it. The Church never was buildings. I see nothing to fear, if indeed, it comes to a evil vatican, because i am one of the true catholic, a Chrsitain, who will be with Jesus and return behind Him,when he comes on a White Horse with His armies of angels, and the church, and the martyers who were killed. You will be there also, for you will see Him when you die or when you are taken up, in a twinkling of an eye.

Nothing I have said is anti-catholic nor is is agaisnt the catachsim. I am allowed, as a catholic, to accept this scenerio. Nor have i said anything terrible about any true pope. Moreso, I give all the power and the glory to Jesus who is King of kings and Lord of lords.

But, thank you for letting me speak. I know that this makes many fine and wonderful true catholic christians uncomforable. And even angry. Your amillinial view is very possible the correct view.It is not a sin to accept this pattern of the future. And “sins” is where I draw the line.

 

[Victorious]

As I said, what is left of the exisiting system, the world wide reach of that system, has no true catholics in it. The Church never was buildings. I see nothing to fear, if indeed, it comes to a evil vatican, because i am one of the true catholic, a Chrsitain, who will be with Jesus and return behind Him,when he comes on a White Horse with His armies of angels, and the church, and the martyers who were killed. You will be there also, for you will see Him when you die or when you are taken up, in a twinkling of an eye.

I cannot understand this except to mean that that which we take for the Catholic Church is fake. I would love to have you point out to me those passages from the Catechism or from the Fathers that support your views.

At the risk of going far afield in this thread, St. Thomas More deals with this issue in Dialogue Concerning Heresies, in which the saint dialogues with a fictitious sparring partner called “the messenger.” From Part 2, Chapter 3:

“Perhaps,” said he [the messenger], “it could be said that there is no need to idenitfy any place where the true church and true Christian congregation is, but that since every place is of neutral significance in that regard, it may be that all the good individuals nad chosen peopel of God that are predestined to be saved – whatever region they may be in, and how ever scattered they may be, here one and there one ,here two and there two – that these are the true church of Christ. And are in this world unknown as yet, while the Church does but wander in the pilgrimage of this short life.”

“Goodness,” said I [Thomas More], "this stuff goes from bad to worse. And actually, this point is their [those who have split from the Church] last resort. For first they see plainly that they must necessarily grant that the true church can neither be wrong regarding the right faith nor mistake holy Scripture or misunderstand it to the introduction of infidelity and false belief. And this ground all the heretics themselves find so sure and firm that they well realize that unless they want to openly and utterly deny Christ altogether, it cannot be undermined. And since they manifestly see this, and as clearly see also that the Church (which is in fact the true church) condemns all their ways – from which condemnation, since the Church cannot err in the discerning of the truth, it must necessarily follow that they themselves mistake the whole entire matter and are completely in a wrong way – therefore they are driven to deny that the Church is the people who are known as the Church. And to go seek another, they know neither what nor where, and build up in the air a church all so spiritual that they leave therein at length neither God nor good human being.

“And, first, where they say that there are none in it but those who are predestined to be saved, if the question were of the Church Triumphant, in heaven, then they would be right. But we are speaking of Christ’s Church Militant, here on earth, and therefore their frame goes as far wide of the place they should set it on as heaven and earth stand asunder…”

 

[VARC]

The story of the Third Secret of Fatima (and the whole story) is the most mysterious and utterly fascinating stories I’ve heard: better than anything hollywood could come up with. I was reminded of it because I recieved a copy of Socci’s book The Forth Secret of Fatima. I am not a Roman Catholic any longer but there is one thing I am absolutely sure of…Rome is hiding something. If you are towing the Vatican’s party line on the Fatima story, you are not paying close enough attention.

 

[Doxiemom]

Nope, that is not what I said. Since the beginning of our church, it has been filled with wonderful God fearing Jesus worshipping people. But it has also drawn into it men who had nothing but evil in their heart and the power of certain positions within gave them plenty of opportunity to use it for their own agenda.

This continues to this day, very sadly. They may be far and few between. But if you think that this is impossible, you are fooling yourself.

What I am saying is, should Jesus have His archangel sound the trump and call us up, all of the good and wonderful catholics / christians , all that will be left will be these paticular evil men. And they will use the “system” that is in place( void of believers) to establish this one world religion. Evil men will elect an evil “pope” who is not a man of God. After all, all the men of God are gone. This false “pope” could cooperate with the man who will show himelf to be the anti-christ.

I want to stress that this is what i believe is a likely outcome for the end of days. Until Jesus Christ comes again in Glory. And wipes out the evil and places Satan and the fallen angels into the bottomless pit.

The Roman Catholic church has not declared amillinism as dogma. It does not “teach” any other view but amillinism. However, short of dogmatic declaration, we are free to wonder about other views.

I have said nothing anti-catholic. I have stressed that this is about only the evil men who will seek power before the Second Coming.

However, what i wonder about is not main stream catholic views. But it is no sinful. Nor have i shown any disrespect to the current Church as it stand now. But I am more than humble enough to accept that i may very well be wrong. I am willing to change my mind. If so given enough “proof”, so to say.

 

[Victorious]

Nope, that is not what I said. Since the beginning of our church, it has been filled with wonderful God fearing Jesus worshipping people. But it has also drawn into it men who had nothing but evil in their heart and the power of certain positions within gave them plenty of opportunity to use it for their own agenda.

This continues to this day, very sadly. They may be far and few between. But if you think that this is impossible, you are fooling yourself.

No, I don’t think this is impossible. I have read the parable of the wheat and the tares, and I have also read the Gospel accounts of the shameful and evil deeds of Judas Iscariot, hand-picked by Jesus Himself to be one of His Apostles.

What I am saying is, should Jesus have His archangel sound the trump and call us up, all of the good and wonderful catholics / christians , all that will be left will be these paticular evil men. And they will use the “system” that is in place( void of believers) to establish this one world religion. Evil men will elect an evil “pope” who is not a man of God. After all, all the men of God are gone. This false “pope” could cooperate with the man who will show himelf to be the anti-christ.

I want to stress that this is what i believe is a likely outcome for the end of days. Until Jesus Christ comes again in Glory. And wipes out the evil and places Satan and the fallen angels into the bottomless pit.

The “Rapture” is not Catholic teaching. And the view you posit is not consistent with Scripture. Consider Matthew 24:21-22, in Jesus’ discourse about the end times:

For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. And if those days had not been shortened, no human being would be saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.

If the elect aren’t going to be around for the tribulation, then why would the tribulation need to be shortened for their sake?

 

[Doxiemom]

“rapture” is only a word,

it refers to the 'catching up". First the dead in Christ will rise and then those who are alive.

There will be people who will accept Christ during this “tribulation” period of 7 years. many of them will be killed for they will not accept the mark of the antichrist. These are the “martyrs” who will be under the altarof God in heaven. They will cry out to God to avenge their innocent blood.

The 'elect" is speaking of the Jews who have come to accept Jesus as Messiah. They will see Him in the clouds when the archangel sounds the trump and the great catching up begins. they will see him whom they have pierced and mourn for Him . God has kept a remnant all these years whose eyes have been blinded .

There is many more phophecies concerning the end times other than just the mount olivet discourse.

I want to stress to you, that this calling up is NOT the Second Coming because Jesus does not ever set foot down on earth. That comes later, at the end of this time period. That is the Second Coming.

I realize that this is not tradional catholic teaching. But it is Scripture and so far what our church 'teaches" is not dogma. Therfore i believe we can study prophecy and think withour it being sin.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

The story of the Third Secret of Fatima (and the whole story) is the most mysterious and utterly fascinating stories I’ve heard: better than anything hollywood could come up with. I was reminded of it because I recieved a copy of Socci’s book The Forth Secret of Fatima. I am not a Roman Catholic any longer but there is one thing I am absolutely sure of…Rome is hiding something. If you are towing the Vatican’s party line on the Fatima story, you are not paying close enough attention.

I just received this book also and I’ll let you know what I think about it too.

 

[Shoshana]

Our current Pope has not made any statements with regard to the content of the Third Secret as Pope, with one exception: He sent a letter to an Italian author who wrote a book about the fabricated Third Secret called “The Fourth Secret of Fatima,” thanking him for the book and praising the sentiments that inspired Socci to write it.

And then we have Pope John Paul II who said on May 13, 2000:

“The message of Fatima is a call to conversion, alerting humanity to have nothing to do with the ‘dragon’ whose ‘tail swept down a third of the stars of heaven, and cast them to the earth’ (Apoc. 12:4).”

This is true! The Pope in the vision is only stated at ‘seeming’ to be JP2. It is never stated that it IS JP@. We must read every word of the text. LaSalette had a prophecy about JP@ but it is not JP2 in the vision of Fatima.

 

[Shoshana]

I just received this book also and I’ll let you know what I think about it too.

I have never read such a balanced book! Read it carefully…it is VERY GOOD from someone who thought the trads were off the wall. Although Socci is much more balanced than the trads.

 

[Louie1983]

I just received this book also and I’ll let you know what I think about it too.

Hi OTCA,

Would you mind letting me know about the book also? I’m quiet interested to here what it says.

Thanks and god bless.

 

[Louie1983]

I have never read such a balanced book! Read it carefully…it is VERY GOOD from someone who thought the trads were off the wall. Although Socci is much more balanced than the trads.

Would you ind giving a brief summary on the book please? i would really appreciate it.

 

[Shoshana]

That’s not the real Third Secret of Fatima.

The real Third Secret of Fatima was introduced by Pope John Paul II on May 13, 2000, in a homily during the beatification of two of the seers. In this homily, Pope JPII said the message of Fatima was a warning to have nothing to do with the tail of the dragon, citing Apocalypse 12:3-4.

This chapter and verse has been interpreted by Church scholars to be a warning that many Catholic clergy will turn evil as the end times approach, and millions of blindly obedient laypersons will follow them.

This is strongly reinforced by Cardinal Ratzinger’s comments in 1984 in Jesus Magazine when he said the Third Secret deals with the importance of the “end times” and dangers threatening the faith and lives of Christians. This was three years after the failed assassination attempt, and nothing was said about it in connection to the Third Secret.

And Pope Benedict asked us to pray for him so as not to fall in fear of the wolves!

“Pray for me that I may learn to love the Lord more. … Pray for me that I may learn to love his flock more and more,” he said during his official mass of investiture. "Pray for me that I may not flee for fear of the wolves.

That remark struck a poignant note after a week of mixed reactions to the former Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger’s election as pope, including some sharply personal criticism.
popebenedictonline.org/php/showContent.php?linkid=5

 

[Shoshana]

Would you ind giving a brief summary on the book please? i would really appreciate it.

Everything is documented in the book. He goes through the Popes but also gives concrete details about everything concerned. The vision of the Pope dying is NOT JP2 and the Vatican never said so. Our Lady always explained the visions the children have had…they were too young and uneducated to understand a lot. Even the vision of hell was explained even if it was self-explanatory for those days. This vision of the Pope was started to be explained by 'The Faith in Portugal, etc and then it stops. The explanation is missing. This would constitute the Fourth Secret. The little boy-visionary only saw Our lady but never heard her. Our Lady told Lucia that she may tell him…but only him.

You must read it. Although I believe it is a lost battle. The Vatican can be a politcal battleground. JP2 wanted to reveal the explanation but Socci believes he did so and Benedict also, through their select homilies because there are those in the Vatican stopped him.

Very, very blanced book and admonishes the trads for their great criticism…even if there is truth…