The Third Secret

[Shoshana]

It has been stated by more than one Pope that the smoke of Satan has infiltrated…we must pray…

 

[Louie1983]

Everything is documented in the book. He goes through the Popes but also gives concrete details about everything concerned. The vision of the Pope dying is NOT JP2 and the Vatican never said so. Our Lady always explained the visions the children have had…they were too young and uneducated to understand a lot. Even the vision of hell was explained even if it was self-explanatory for those days. This vision of the Pope was started to be explained by 'The Faith in Portugal, etc and then it stops. The explanation is missing. This would constitute the Fourth Secret. The little boy-visionary only saw Our lady but never heard her. Our Lady told Lucia that she may tell him…but only him.

You must read it. Although I believe it is a lost battle. The Vatican can be a politcal battleground. JP2 wanted to reveal the explanation but Socci believes he did so and Benedict also, through their select homilies because there are those in the Vatican stopped him.

Very, very blanced book and admonishes the trads for their great criticism…even if there is truth…

excellent will definately look for it!

Does it give a hint as to what the secret is? in regards to what the vatican might be hiding.

 

[Shoshana]

excellent will definately look for it!

Does it give a hint as to what the secret is? in regards to what the vatican might be hiding.

I am only half way through. I think the explanation of the Third willl never be exposed as this would be very emberrassing to the Vatican. That is why they are saying that everything has been revealed…in the vision but also the homilies of the Popes (select ones). In his (Socci) estimation. I am taking notes, but I must read it twice because if you really pay attention to the words, you will that the people have been reading the texts wrong.

 

[Hesychios]

… in regards to what the vatican might be hiding.

What a sad commentary.

That the people of the church even for one minute think that the church leadership is lying to them, or hiding things from them, speaks volumes about the environment this kind of church structure has engendered.

Am I the only person who sees something terribly wrong about this?

 

[Louie1983]

What a sad commentary.

That the people of the church even for one minute think that the church leadership is lying to them, or hiding things from them, speaks volumes about the environment this kind of church structure has engendered.

Am I the only person who sees something terribly wrong about this?

key word…MIGHT! I didn’t say they were hiding something but that they might be holding something back. there is nothing wrong with that.
And i also never said lying either, another comment you have twisted hesychios.

There is confusion as to whether the church has revealed al the details of the secrets of fatima to us hesychios, are you always so pessimistic? i trust the church fully but just because i ask whether the full text has been revealed or not doesn’t mean i don’t trust them or that it’s bad form on my part.

Who knows the church may be holding back something for a reason! it may actually serve us well not to know, maybe the secret was for church officials only!

 

[Victorious]

What a sad commentary.

That the people of the church even for one minute think that the church leadership is lying to them, or hiding things from them, speaks volumes about the environment this kind of church structure has engendered.

Am I the only person who sees something terribly wrong about this?

No.

key word…MIGHT! I didn’t say they were hiding something but that they might be holding something back. there is nothing wrong with that.
And i also never said lying either, another comment you have twisted hesychios

Except that Rome has said the Third Secret has been made public. And Sr. Lucia said there were no more secrets. There are those who suggest that Sr. Lucia did not say that, or that she said so under duress. In the face of these explicit declarations out of the Holy See, what else would Rome be doing but lying if the whole thing has not in fact been made public?

 

[Louie1983]

No.

Except that Rome has said the Third Secret has been made public. And Sr. Lucia said there were no more secrets. There are those who suggest that Sr. Lucia did not say that, or that she said so under duress. In the face of these explicit declarations out of the Holy See, what else would Rome be doing but lying if the whole thing has not in fact been made public?

Fair enough, but there have been comments from sister lucia saying that russia has not been converted and tht the 3rd secret has not been revealed. There is definately confusion there which needs to be clarified once and for all!

 

[Shoshana]

What a sad commentary.

That the people of the church even for one minute think that the church leadership is lying to them, or hiding things from them, speaks volumes about the environment this kind of church structure has engendered.

Am I the only person who sees something terribly wrong about this?

I admire your love for Mother Church. I declare that, I, too love Mother Church. But I have seen much. Too much. I would highly recommend reading the book.

There had been deception in the Church, we only have to look at the sexual abuse scandals, the seminaries run by homosexuals that even Fr groeschel suffered through. Much lying and and deception but that is the human side of the Church. The Vatican also has a human side full of people with political agendas. There are outlandish liberals that I believe make our beloved Popes suffer much. Even the smoke of Satan entered into it. You only have to read history.

One that reads with an open mind that sin does exist from the highest to the lowest human being in the Catholic institution does not make one a bad Catholic. Our Lady said to pray and to do penance. This is not much preached on the whole. Only those priests who are truly attached to the Lord preach the difficult path of the Gospel. And there are many. But there are also many who are vwery, very liberal and believe sin is archaic.

Fatima/LaSalette have much in common. Bioth approved apparitions. One shoudl read the message, it is true to today:

"Priests, my Son’s ministers, priests, by their evil life, by their irreverences and their impiety in celebrating the holy mysteries, love of money, love of honor and pleasures, priests have become sewers of impurity. Yes, priests call forth vengeance, and vengeance is suspended over their heads. Woe to priests, and to persons consecrated to God, who by their infidelities and their evil life are crucifying my son anew! The sins of persons consecrated to God cry to heaven and call for vengeance, and now here is vengeance at their very doors, for no longer is anyone found to beg mercy and pardon for the people; there are no more generous souls, there is now no one worthy of offering the spotless Victim to the Eternal on the worlds behalf.
trancenet.net/bcross/secrets/lasalette.shtml

How about New Age that has entered into our convent and retreat centers and even someof our parishes:

"In the year 1864 Lucifer, together with a great number of devils, will be loosed from hell; little by little they will abolish the faith, and that even in persons consecrated to God; they will so blind them, that without a special grace, these persons will take on the spirit of these evil angels; a number of religious houses will lose the faith entirely and cause many souls to be damned.
“Bad books will abound over the earth, and the spirits of darkness will everywhere spread universal relaxation in everything concerning God’s service: they will have very great power over nature; there will be churches to serve these spirits. People will be transported form one place to another by these evil spirits, and even priests, because they will not have lived by the good spirit of the gospel, which is a spirit of humility, charity and zeal for the glory of God. The dead and the just will be made to rise.”

Sound familiar? Fatima says that many will be going to hell, and that was before WW2! What about today when hell is not preached? Read the whole message of LaSaletter. LaSalette came before Fatima.

And yes, there is corruption in the Vatican because humans inhabit it…

 

[VARC]

Except that Rome has said the Third Secret has been made public. And Sr. Lucia said there were no more secrets. There are those who suggest that Sr. Lucia did not say that, or that she said so under duress. ?

And you actually believe them. Socci’s book explains the problems with the assertion that Lucy said the Secret had been revealed. He, as a repectable journalist, gave the Vatican the benefit of the doubt but was very troubled when he looked into it. The only evidenced Archbishop Bertone could provide that Lucy towed the Vatican’s party line was an unaddressed, typed letter. Without an addressee, it authenticity cannot be verified (you have to take Bertone’s word for it). Lucy never tped any of her letters. Odds are, she didn’t even know how to use a computer.

In the face of these explicit declarations out of the Holy See, what else would Rome be doing but lying if the whole thing has not in fact been made public?

That is exactly what they are doing. And don’t be so naive about it. They are certainly capable of lies. Check out Socci’s book and Nicholas Gruner’s website with an objective mind. Any unbiased jurist can see that Rome is hiding something.

 

[Shoshana]

And you actually believe them. Socci’s book explains the problems with the assertion that Lucy said the Secret had been revealed. He, as a repectable journalist, gave the Vatican the benefit of the doubt but was very troubled when he looked into it. The only evidenced Archbishop Bertone could provide that Lucy towed the Vatican’s party line was an unaddressed, typed letter. Without an addressee, it authenticity cannot be verified (you have to take Bertone’s word for it). Lucy never tped any of her letters. Odds are, she didn’t even know how to use a computer.

That is exactly what they are doing. And don’t be so naive about it. They are certainly capable of lies. Check out Socci’s book and Nicholas Gruner’s website with an objective mind. Any unbiased jurist can see that Rome is hiding something.

Socci also admonishes the Fatimists. Socci’s book is very, very balanced. His evidence with much documentation is explosive to say the least…

 

[Bob_Crowley]

This was a comment I lifted from elsewhere, which is part of Pope John Paul II’s statement during an interview at Fulda, Germany in 1980, relating to the Third Secret.

“It should have been made public in l960, but because of its troubling content, and to dissuade the superpowers from undertaking war, my predecessors in the papal chair have chosen the diplomatic way.” (The Pope thus admitted the authenticity of the excerpts made by Pope Paul Vl). “On the other hand, it should be sufficient for all Christians to know this much: if there is a message in which it is said that the oceans will flood entire sections of the earth; that, from one moment to the other, millions of people will perish . . . there is no longer any point in really wanting to publish this secret message.”

Another part of the Secret claimed the great calamity would occur in the 2nd half of the 20th century. Well, unless one takes the various wars, famines, the Gulags etc as being the prophecy, it didn’t happen. Millions didn’t die from hour to hour.

So either it was false, or we’ve been given a temporary reprieve. I think it might be the latter.

The church didn’t publish it at the time because it was the height of the Cold War, and they didn’t want to do anything to turn the Cold War into a Hot War.

 

[Shoshana]

This was a comment I lifted from elsewhere, which is part of Pope John Paul II’s statement during an interview at Fulda, Germany in 1980, relating to the Third Secret.

“It should have been made public in l960, but because of its troubling content, and to dissuade the superpowers from undertaking war, my predecessors in the papal chair have chosen the diplomatic way.” (The Pope thus admitted the authenticity of the excerpts made by Pope Paul Vl). “On the other hand, it should be sufficient for all Christians to know this much: if there is a message in which it is said that the oceans will flood entire sections of the earth; that, from one moment to the other, millions of people will perish . . . there is no longer any point in really wanting to publish this secret message.”

Another part of the Secret claimed the great calamity would occur in the 2nd half of the 20th century. Well, unless one takes the various wars, famines, the Gulags etc as being the prophecy, it didn’t happen. Millions didn’t die from hour to hour.

So either it was false, or we’ve been given a temporary reprieve. I think it might be the latter.

The church didn’t publish it at the time because it was the height of the Cold War, and they didn’t want to do anything to turn the Cold War into a Hot War.

And as Socci says that it would be quite pretentious to be wiser than the Madonna who is the Seat of Wisdom. You make compromises when we are diplomatic…we chose the human way as opposed to the divine way. She predicted WW2 if we did not change our ways (and that was back then, what about today?..)

I do not pretend to know better than the Pope but I also believe the Pope was coerced into this…

 

[Victorious]

That is exactly what they are doing. And don’t be so naive about it. They are certainly capable of lies. Check out Socci’s book and Nicholas Gruner’s website with an objective mind. Any unbiased jurist can see that Rome is hiding something.

:yawn:

 

[Hesychios]

One thing I find mightily disturbing is the fact that none of these apparitions would be considered legitimate if the church hierarchy had not declared them to be worthy of belief, yet these very same apparitions are now being used as an excuse to attack that same church hierarchy!

What a convoluted disaster.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

And as Socci says that it would be quite pretentious to be wiser than the Madonna who is the Seat of Wisdom. You make compromises when we are diplomatic…we chose the human way as opposed to the divine way. She predicted WW2 if we did not change our ways (and that was back then, what about today?..)

I do not pretend to know better than the Pope but I also believe the Pope was coerced into this…

If the Church is guided by the Holy Spirit, as it claims to be, then it would have done what the Holy Spirit prompted it to do. Secondly, WHO SAID the Third Secret had to be published in 1960? If there ever was such a decision, then it was probably another Church decision, and the Church has the right to defer it’s own decisions. I haven’t read of a single Marian apparition which put hard and fast dates on anything.

I think we’re better off leaving these decisions to the Church authorities.

I do think we’ve been given a reprieve. But if we don’t change, and we probably won’t, then another disaster will come. And it will probably make all previous disasters look like kid’s stuff.

As a convert from Protestantism, I sometimes get tired of Protestants telling lies about the Catholic Church. But I’m also fast coming to realise there are right and left wing Catholics who are determined to push their own barrows, and demand the Church comply with their particular panaceas.

 

[Victorious]

If the Church is guided by the Holy Spirit, as it claims to be, then it would have done what the Holy Spirit prompted it to do.

She (not “it”) does do what the Holy Spirit prompts her to do. It’s just that the Holy Spirit doesn’t necessarily conform to our ideas of what He should prompt her to do.

Secondly, WHO SAID the Third Secret had to be published in 1960? If there ever was such a decision, then it was probably another Church decision, and the Church has the right to defer it’s own decisions. I haven’t read of a single Marian apparition which put hard and fast dates on anything.

This question is answered earlier in the thread. Sr. Lucia did not say that the secret had to be published in 1960; she said that it should not be published before 1960. She said that she was the one who came up with the date, because she had an intuition that the secret would not make sense before 1960.

 

[Louie1983]

One thing I find mightily disturbing is the fact that none of these apparitions would be considered legitimate if the church hierarchy had not declared them to be worthy of belief, yet these very same apparitions are now being used as an excuse to attack that same church hierarchy!

What a convoluted disaster.

There we go again with the sweeping statements and bad choice of words. Attack? hesychios? come off it. It was a question, every true catholic trusts, suppports and has faith in the mother church and the magisterium. Stop twisting every situation and making worse then they really are.

convoluted disaster?.. what’s next hesychios? armageddon?

 

[Shoshana]

If the Church is guided by the Holy Spirit, as it claims to be, then it would have done what the Holy Spirit prompted it to do.

Mother Church if FULL of the Holy Spirit…but within Her is humnaity. Humanity is a fallen race, redeemed by the Precious blood of Jesus. Sometimes, as humans, we are not inclined to hear what the Holy Spirit has to say…and that includes prelates.

Secondly, WHO SAID the Third Secret had to be published in 1960? If there ever was such a decision, then it was probably another Church decision, and the Church has the right to defer it’s own decisions. I haven’t read of a single Marian apparition which put hard and fast dates on anything.

There may not have been hard and fast dates, but you should read up on Fatima and how the consecration of Mary is compared to France being consecrated to the Sacred Heart of Jesus. Which France failed to do and became quite secular…

Hard and fast dates? Our Lady WARNED of the second world war as the first one was still in the process. Gave her a sign that the chastsement was coming…and WW2 came because of man’s sins…

Also, you should read of LaSalette…

I think we’re better off leaving these decisions to the Church authorities.

Church authorities have made grave mistakes, because of their humanity. Our Lady is warning them of it…

I do think we’ve been given a reprieve. But if we don’t change, and we probably won’t, then another disaster will come. And it will probably make all previous disasters look like kid’s stuff.

Enough that it made Sister Lucy become totally anxious about writing the Secret and needed divine help to write theWORDS of the Madonna explaining the VISION. Two different items…

As a convert from Protestantism, I sometimes get tired of Protestants telling lies about the Catholic Church. But I’m also fast coming to realise there are right and left wing Catholics who are determined to push their own barrows, and demand the Church comply with their particular panaceas.

Be careful. Be objective and pray for discernement. If this is too much for you, then you must back away. Those who can object are not necessarily right or left wing nuts. The truth is what is important here…why?..for everyone’s salvation. That’s why! Otherwise why woudl Our Lady bother???

 

[Hesychios]

There we go again with the sweeping statements and bad choice of words. Attack? hesychios? come off it. It was a question, every true catholic trusts, suppports and has faith in the mother church and the magisterium. Stop twisting every situation and making worse then they really are.

convoluted disaster?.. what’s next hesychios? armageddon?

Did I not read people saying the “smoke of Satan was in the Vatican”?

The Vatican “hiding something”?

People in the Vatican have “given themselves over to the Evil One”?

I thought I read that somewhere… correct me if I am wrong.

I do not see you challenging these statements when they are posted. This whole thread stinks and you aren’t helping matters one bit. Instead you attack me, why?

Is that because I point out how thoroughly despicable this subject is, and how bad it makes your church look… and that embarrasses you?

Why should non-Catholics of any sort want to get mixed up with the kind of sludge being slung about here? And to think all of this mess is inspired by an apparition!

If I was to post something like “Marian apparitions are the smoke of Satan” you would have my head. But it’s apparently Ok for Catholics to suggest that about the Vatican. What ever… perhaps the smoke of Satan has infiltrated the threads in Catholic Answers Forums! … something appears to be tearing at the inner fibre of your church.

Why would we Orthodox want to get mixed up in your Vatican, if that is how it is? Don’t tell me in one breath that we need your Pope and in another that he and his Vatican apparatus is hiding something!

What a disappointment …

 

[Louie1983]

Did I not read people saying the “smoke of Satan was in the Vatican”?

**Actually it was a pope that said that and he was referring to the fact that great impurity has entered the church. The “smoke” that everyone refers to is the fact that there are sinners within the church and there are those who are in the church who are deliberately there to undermine the authority of the pope and the church. Just like there are sinners and disobedient priests in the orthodox church hesychios! **

The Vatican “hiding something”?

People in the Vatican have “given themselves over to the Evil One”?

I thought I read that somewhere… correct me if I am wrong.

**Yes you did, there are many true stories in the church where sometimes cardinals were deliberately working against the church! people attacking the church from the inside (ofcourse we all know this to be the work of Satan). Are you saying there are no priests or officials in the orthodox church who teach error? is this not doing harm to the orthodox church? wake up! Have there been no scandals in the orthodox church? wouldn;t you say that this is the work of the devil to try and rip through the orthodo church? That’s all people are saying here. The devil will attack god’s church from outside and inside because he’s sole purpose is to destroy anything that reflects God! **

I do not see you challenging these statements when they are posted. This whole thread stinks and you aren’t helping matters one bit. Instead you attack me, why?

**You make it out as if someone is attacking the teachings of the church or making some huge accustaion. All it is people wondering whether the church has released the full secret, afterall it did take 50 years for all the secrets to come out and sister lucia was quoted as saying that the secret has not been fully revealed yet. If anyone attacks the truth or the faith of the church then i will stand up for it but that’s not what is happening here hesychios, people are just asking whether the 3rd secret has been fully revealed. Get over it! **

Is it because I point out how thoroughly despicable this subject is, and how bad it makes your church look… and that embarrasses you?

**No sorry, the subject has been debated for many years and among theologians and among high church officials. It’s not a despicable subject. You make it sound that way because you tend to lean towards crisis, convoluted disasters, attacks. get a grip! **

Why should non-Catholics of any sort want to get mixed up with the kind of sludge being slung about here? And to think all of this mess is inspired by an apparition!

**Here we go again, “all this mess” “sludge”. No-one is questioning the authority of the church here or attacking the church or making it look in a bad light. It’s simply a discussion about the 3rd secret and whether it has been fully revealed. If the church has said that it has revealed all of it then great! but people will question that given the circumstances, and that’s a not a sin or something terrible as you make it out to be. **

If I was to post something like “Marian apparitions are the smoke of Satan” you would have my head. But it’s apparently Ok for Catholics to suggest that about the Vatican. What ever… perhaps the smoke of Satan has infiltrated the threads in Catholic Answers Forums! … something appears to be tearing at the inner fibre of your church.

**Yeah sure Hesychios, whatever makes you feel better. The way you have compared this discussion to “Marian apparitions are the smoke of Satan” is pathetic! How about trying to understand what that actually means first before saying anything. As i explained earlier this is meant that there are sinners in the church and that there are those in the church working deliberately against the church to undermine it! It has entered through sin! It doesn’t mean that the vatican is practising devil worship or anything! There are sinners in the church and there are those that teach error and corrupt the faith! Are you telling me that this doesn;t happen in the orthodox faith? **

Why would we Orthodox want to get mixed up in your Vatican, if that is how it is? Don’t tell me in one breath that we need your Pope and in another that he and his Vatican apparatus is hiding something!

**It isn’t how it is, like i said there is confusion about whether the 3rd secret has been revealed completely among the faithfull and the church. That’s there is to it, no-one is questioning the faith, no-one is questioning the church! it’s not a “disaster” or anything of the sort it’s just that people are confused!

Why would we Orthodox want to get mixed up in your Vatican, if that is how it is?** Because the orthodox church has never had any scandals or confusion among it’s preists or structure.

What a disappointment …

I’m sorry you feel that way. But it’s what i’ve come to expect from you.