The Third Secret

[Albizzi]

It is very apparent the loss of the supernatural is in the Church because it is everywhere. Technology and scientific explanations of the world around us permeate human understanding to the exclusion of the spiritual. It is a true test of faith to desire what is denied even though it is seen in even a cursory read of the Bible and the Catechism, that is, reading without a bias or preconceived notion. Liberation theology, feminist theology, or social justice theology that makes Jesus just a man wanting political change, and other novelties that are not in Magisterial teaching, are in every parish because people of dubious faith are in every parish. They separate themselves from the Church by not listening to the Magisterial teaching about the spiritual and supernatural. No secret needed there.

Yes, and all this is named APOSTASY.
Apostasy of the world is one thing, Apostasy in the Church is a more serious one.
Card. Ciappi who had read the 3rd Secret: “In the Third Secret it is foretold, among other things, that the great apostasy in the Church begins at the top.”
Card. Oddi (who read it too): “In the third Secret … the Blessed Virgin was alerting us against apostasy in the Church”.

 

[Shoshana]

The steps toward this unheard of accord were the voyage of Monsignor Willebrands to Moscow, from September 27 to October 2, 1962 9see Zizola, John 23, op, cit., pp. 210-211) andthe so-called Metz Pact, sanctioned in the springtime pf 1962 between Cardinal Tisserant and Metropolitan, Nikodim. Events had it that the two observers arrived at the Council precisely on October 13, 1962, the anniversary of the great miracle of Fatima during the last apparition. ‘The written intervention against communism on the part of 450 Council Fathers was ‘lost’ mysteriously after having been delivered to teh Secretary of the Coundil, and those council fathers who insisted on denouncing communism were gently invited to be seated and remain silent.’ (Father Paul Kramer, The Devil’s Final Battle, op.cit.,p57.) Docimentation of this history is furnished also by Roman Amerio, Iota Unum (Ricciardi: 1985, pp. 65-67) who writes that 'tje initiative for the meetings was taken personnally by John 23 at the suggestion of Montini, and Tisserant ‘received his formal orders, both for the signing of the accord and overseeing its exact execution during the Council.’
The Fourth Secret of Fatima, Antonio Socci, p.198

I am reminded od this extraordinary admonition that Padre pio is said to have made public to his spiritual brothers in 1963, where he speaks of Fatima and of the tears of the Madonna. It provokes much refelction precisely in reference to the Metz Pact and the Madonna of Syracuse: ‘Because of the spreading injustice and the abuse of power, we have arrived at a compromise with ateisistic materialism, denying the rights of God. This is the chastisement preannounced at Fatima (…) All of the priests who maintianed the possibility of a dialogue with the deniers of God and with the Luciferian powers of the world are mad, they have lost the faith, they no longer believe in the Gospel! They thus betray the Word of God, because Christ came to bring to earth a perpetual alliance only with men of goodwill, but not ally Himself with men thirsty for power and domination over their brothers…The flock is dispersed when the pastors ally themselves with enemies of the Truth of Christ. All of the forms of power made deaf to the will and the authority of the heart of God ar rpacious wolves who renew the Passion of Christ and cause the tears of the Madonna to pour forth.’ (Avvenires, August 19, 1978.)
The Fourth Secret of Fatima, Antonio Socci, p.198

 

[Victorious]

I am reminded od this extraordinary admonition that Padre pio is said to have made public to his spiritual brothers in 1963, where he speaks of Fatima and of the tears of the Madonna. It provokes much refelction precisely in reference to the Metz Pact and the Madonna of Syracuse: ‘Because of the spreading injustice and the abuse of power, we have arrived at a compromise with ateisistic materialism, denying the rights of God. This is the chastisement preannounced at Fatima (…) All of the priests who maintianed the possibility of a dialogue with the deniers of God and with the Luciferian powers of the world are mad, they have lost the faith, they no longer believe in the Gospel! They thus betray the Word of God, because Christ came to bring to earth a perpetual alliance only with men of goodwill, but not ally Himself with men thirsty for power and domination over their brothers…The flock is dispersed when the pastors ally themselves with enemies of the Truth of Christ. All of the forms of power made deaf to the will and the authority of the heart of God ar rpacious wolves who renew the Passion of Christ and cause the tears of the Madonna to pour forth.’ (Avvenires, August 19, 1978.)

It has always seemed to me that the stuff that happened in the Church in the wake of Vatican II was simply an extension of what was going on in the world. The rebellion against authority in the Church was not confined to the Church; it was going on everywhere else, too. And if the above is true, then the fad of detente which had swept the West, and which basically reduced our civil leaders to impotence in the face of our mortal enemy the Soviet Union, also infected some within the Church. There are still many Catholics who think it’s immoral for us to fight our enemies.

But Jesus was not a birkenstock-wearing, granola-eating, recycling, all-you-need-is-love hippie, tolerant to the point of blindness to evil. And we shouldn’t be either.

 

[Shoshana]

It has always seemed to me that the stuff that happened in the Church in the wake of Vatican II was simply an extension of what was going on in the world. The rebellion against authority in the Church was not confined to the Church; it was going on everywhere else, too. And if the above is true, then the fad of detente which had swept the West, and which basically reduced our civil leaders to impotence in the face of our mortal enemy the Soviet Union, also infected some within the Church. There are still many Catholics who think it’s immoral for us to fight our enemies.

But Jesus was not a birkenstock-wearing, granola-eating, recycling, all-you-need-is-love hippie, tolerant to the point of blindness to evil. And we shouldn’t be either.

It is a little more serious I think…communism have filtered into the church. Did you read my last Pope when the Pope silenced the great many fathers of the Council. It wasn’t the fathers of the council but the Pope himself. Have you read Bell Dodd’s book? I was aghast when I read that Socci read it and confimed its truth. Never in my wildest dream would I believe this would happen. I would expect it from the Fatimists (as Socci calls them), because that is a source of information for them. We must’not forget that Socci thought the Fatimists were off the wall…

On this note, I wanted to continue to expand on the ‘wolves’ found in Padre Pio’s excerpt. If he said it, man, I believe it! Here is a part of Pope Benedict’s homily at his installation Mass on April 24, 2005: 'Pray for me, that I may not flee in fear of the WOLVES.'

 

[Victorious]

Your link is not intelligible to me. Are you, or this blog suggesting that Pope Paul VI was a mason?

Yes, of course, I had the same reaction the first time I read it. But I doubted that the pictures would be forgeries.
The truth sometimes may be scary.
I changed my mind when I heard that this Fr Villa had close connections with the late Card. Gagnon, with the widow of the well known theologian Dietrich Von Hildebrand and Padre Pio.
I recommend that you read the interview that Dr Alice Von Hildebrand gave to the Latin Mass Magazine in 2001: latinmassmagazine.com/articles/articles_2001_SU_Hildebran.html
I hope this will enlighten you

I would need a lot of convincing to believe that Pope Paul VI was an actual Mason. But the von Hildebrand interview linked above is full of food for thought about the changes since Vatican II. This paragraph especially:

The devil hates the ancient Mass. He hates it because it is the most perfect reformulation of all the teachings of the Church. It was my husband who gave me this insight about the Mass. The problem that ushered in the present crisis was not the traditional Mass. The problem was that priests who offered it had already lost the sense of the supernatural and the transcendent. They rushed through the prayers, they mumbled and didn’t enunciate them. That is a sign that they had brought to the Mass their growing secularism. The ancient Mass does not abide irreverence, and that was why so many priests were just as happy to see it go.

Earlier in the interview, von Hildebrand talks about the overall loss of the sense of the supernatural, and how the beauty of the traditional Mass masked this. On the assumption that she is right, some observations:

– In the Old Testament, we read about how, when the children of Israel turned away from God, He permitted the destruction of the Temple and the scattering of the people as punishment for their infidelity. Perhaps God permitted a similar loss – the loss of the traditional Mass – to befall His Church as a chastisement and a remedy for the underlying and invisible (to us) malady of our infidelity, namely, our detachment from the supernatural and the transcendent.

– The loss of the traditional Mass laid bare the corruption that was already present, and set it before our eyes in all its stark and ugly reality. Once it became manifest in the Mass, it was impossible to ignore.

– The loss of the traditional Mass has certainly been tragic; but it has also had a great salutary effect, namely, that many of us yearn for the sense of the transcendent and supernatural that has been lost, and now pray for its return. Would we have had that yearning if we hadn’t lost the traditional Mass? Would we have even noticed what we didn’t have, let alone turned to God in prayer about it?

Just some ramblings on my part; but this seems to me something that needs thought.

 

[Doxiemom]

I, for one, do not wish for the Old Mass to return. I want to understand what is going on from seeing it and hearing it in my own language.

 

[Victorious]

I, for one, do not wish for the Old Mass to return. I want to understand what is going on from seeing it and hearing it in my own language.

I dunno…seems like ever since the Mass was cast into the vernacular, we understand what’s going on less than ever.

 

[Earnest_Bunbury]

I dunno…seems like ever since the Mass was cast into the vernacular, we understand what’s going on less than ever.

That is the paradigm of the worldly manifested in the loss of the supernatural. I am sure there were Catholics throughout the ages that were like that, not a majority though, and there are Catholics today that want holiness and add reverence to the Ordinary Form Mass. It matters most if you understand what is going on as concern with others leads us to have concern for the things of God less and less.

I, for one, do not wish for the Old Mass to return. I want to understand what is going on from seeing it and hearing it in my own language.

As a former protester I prefer the ordinary but attend every TLM I can. It is confusing and irritating but this is given in sacrifice to God as is everything in my daily life to the best of my ability.

Yes, and all this is named APOSTASY.

The Church is not apostate because it still teaches truth, only the people can be apostate as it means a complete renunciation of the faith. newadvent.org/cathen/01624b.htm However many inside her don’t seek or find this truth and seek novelties in place of the hard road to holiness. Luther also thought the apostasy and end times were imminent. We can be wrong about everything we think we know. Look at fundamentalists, they are convinced, as are Muslim fundamentalists. Humility is the antidote and prayer is the key.

 

[Victorious]

I, for one, do not wish for the Old Mass to return. I want to understand what is going on from seeing it and hearing it in my own language.

Incidentally, here’s another thought: the Mass is not about you. It’s not about me. It’s about God. The unwillingness to make sacrifices – e.g., of one’s own comforts and conveniences – is one of the maladies Alice von Hildebrand talks about in the above-linked interview.

Besides which, there is no legitimate reason not to understand what is going on in the Mass offered in Latin. There are, and always have been, missals, with the Latin text on one side and the English translation on the other.

 

[Doxiemom]

Uh, I thought the whole reason Jesus lowered Himself into human form was for me. He would have died on that Cross if I was the only person ever to believe unto Him.

I am old enough to remember the latin mass, the missle and all. Wearing mantilas. It was one great big mystery to me as a kid as to what page I was supposed to be on . How on earth does that, along with being scared to death of eternal hell if i dared to chew the host (way back in the 50’s) make a kid love God or the catholic Church. Scared maybe, but that is not love.

At least my children could understand the priest because he spoke English, even if i had to smack a boy or two along the way to pay attention.

 

[pnewton]

Uh, I thought the whole reason Jesus lowered Himself into human form was for me. He would have died on that Cross if I was the only person ever to believe unto Him.

It is interesting that those who thing that we understand less about Mass because it is in English (a twist of logic if there ever was one) miss basic Christian theology. God did not become Man to be worshipped, but to save the lost. Yes, the Mass is about “us men and our salvation.”

Maybe hearing things like this in Latin is too confusing.

 

[Hesychios]

Uh, I thought the whole reason Jesus lowered Himself into human form was for me. He would have died on that Cross if I was the only person ever to believe unto Him.

I am old enough to remember the latin mass, the missle and all. Wearing mantilas. It was one great big mystery to me as a kid as to what page I was supposed to be on . How on earth does that, along with being scared to death of eternal hell if i dared to chew the host (way back in the 50’s) make a kid love God or the catholic Church. Scared maybe, but that is not love.

At least my children could understand the priest because he spoke English, even if i had to smack a boy or two along the way to pay attention.

You and I must be about the same age…

Although in my area the women wore doilies and little Jackie Kennedy type hats. My grandmother wore a babushka tied under the chin (and she didn’t take it off after Mass).

I never saw a mantilla while I was growing up…

 

[Albizzi]

I would need a lot of convincing to believe that Pope Paul VI was an actual Mason. But the von Hildebrand interview linked above is full of food for thought about the changes since Vatican II. This paragraph especially:

Earlier in the interview, von Hildebrand talks about the overall loss of the sense of the supernatural, and how the beauty of the traditional Mass masked this. On the assumption that she is right, some observations:

– In the Old Testament, we read about how, when the children of Israel turned away from God, He permitted the destruction of the Temple and the scattering of the people as punishment for their infidelity. Perhaps God permitted a similar loss – the loss of the traditional Mass – to befall His Church as a chastisement and a remedy for the underlying and invisible (to us) malady of our infidelity, namely, our detachment from the supernatural and the transcendent.

– The loss of the traditional Mass laid bare the corruption that was already present, and set it before our eyes in all its stark and ugly reality. Once it became manifest in the Mass, it was impossible to ignore.

– The loss of the traditional Mass has certainly been tragic; but it has also had a great salutary effect, namely, that many of us yearn for the sense of the transcendent and supernatural that has been lost, and now pray for its return. Would we have had that yearning if we hadn’t lost the traditional Mass? Would we have even noticed what we didn’t have, let alone turned to God in prayer about it?

Just some ramblings on my part; but this seems to me something that needs thought.

Victorious,
YOU said what I didn’t intend to say: That Paul VI was a freemason.
I guess you were shocked by the pics like I was: Now you have to read the full 198 pages of Fr Villa’s book or else hide your head in the sand.
For my part, I think that the loss of the sense of the transcendent and supernatural by the cancellation of the Latin Mass is a bit anecdotic (although the bishops who said it was cancelled have lied to the faithfuls since Benedict XVI said it never was).
Yes it is a bit anecdotic in front of the hundreds of thousand (millions?) of people who left the Church or ceased practising, hence putting their salvation at risk, due to the “diabolical disorientation” that followed VATII.
The Novus Ordo of Paul VI is only the emerged tip of the iceberg.

 

[Albizzi]

I, for one, do not wish for the Old Mass to return. I want to understand what is going on from seeing it and hearing it in my own language.

The first time I begun to attend again the latin mass (according to John XXII’s missal), I was pleased to discover again what I had forgotten lon ago: One is obliged to read the translation in a missal, otherwise it is impossible to follow the mass proprely.
With the vernacular N.O. mass, the main part of the attendants are neglecting to bring their missal (myself first) since it is easier to follow, yes easier if you are attentive, but also easier to be distracted by a lot of things and thoughts. The missal obliges everyone to be very attentive thus giving more fervent and silent masses.

 

[Albizzi]

That is the paradigm of the worldly manifested in the loss of the supernatural. I am sure there were Catholics throughout the ages that were like that, not a majority though, and there are Catholics today that want holiness and add reverence to the Ordinary Form Mass. It matters most if you understand what is going on as concern with others leads us to have concern for the things of God less and less.

As a former protester I prefer the ordinary but attend every TLM I can. It is confusing and irritating but this is given in sacrifice to God as is everything in my daily life to the best of my ability.

The Church is not apostate because it still teaches truth, only the people can be apostate as it means a complete renunciation of the faith. newadvent.org/cathen/01624b.htm However many inside her don’t seek or find this truth and seek novelties in place of the hard road to holiness. Luther also thought the apostasy and end times were imminent. We can be wrong about everything we think we know. Look at fundamentalists, they are convinced, as are Muslim fundamentalists. Humility is the antidote and prayer is the key.

You are wrong: The Church may be apostate, but only partially. During the arianism crisis, one reckons that 90 per cent of the Church was apostate.
The hidden sense of the Apocalypse sentence of the “Dragon’s tail that swept away one-third of the stars in the sky and threw them down to earth” is interpreted by the exegetes as one third of the clerks (priests, monks nuns, bishops etc…) that are apostasying or will do so.

 

[Albizzi]

I, for one, do not wish for the Old Mass to return. I want to understand what is going on from seeing it and hearing it in my own language.

Doxiemon,
Anyway one cannot remove from my mind that Mgr Bugnini who is the very conceptor of the new liturgy, actually was a freemason. This was PROVEN (see a recent link in SpiritDaily.com one week ago) and by fear of the scandal (the priest who discovered this threatened to all reveal to the secular press) pope Paul VI was OBLIGED to send Bugnini away in a remote nunciature in Iran.
However the NO was kept and implemented.
I wonder which good fruits the mason Bugnini wanted the NO to bring to the Church.

 

[Shoshana]

Please, kindly, return to the subject at hand (The Third Secret) or they will close the thread. Thank you.

 

[Albizzi]

Please, kindly, return to the subject at hand (The Third Secret) or they will close the thread. Thank you.

Yes, coming back to the third Secret: Since everybody (except the Vatican) agrees like once said Mother Angelica “that we didn’t get the whole stuff” in the year 2000’s unveiling, does the hidden part deal with the apostasy in the Church, yes or no ?

 

[pnewton]

You are wrong: The Church may be apostate, but only partially. During the arianism crisis, one reckons that 90 per cent of the Church was apostate.

FYI - If you want to go off on this Arian thing again, instead of hijacking this thread, I started a thread here on the way this incident is misusted to support all sort of rebellion in the Church.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=310397

 

[missal]

Are any of you familiar with Antonio Socci’s book…THE FOURTH SECRET OF FATIMA
It’s called that because the Vatican has and is holding back part of the released Third Secret. This is written by an Italian “Vatican insider”… His intentions were to dispute the fact that the Vatican was withholding information, and to put to an end to those who are waiting for the real “Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary”. He went through the archives, complied all the documents, investigated all the news stories, the witnesses, etc… and to his surprise…He is now convinced the Vatican IS withholding a part of the Third Secret…
You see, it warns of some serious problems within the Church …“starting from the top” …so every Pope has decided it would “not be on my watch”

(My take on this is)…Vatican II was inaugurated to prevent this catastrope from ocurring, and - in reality just advanced it! A prophecy is a prophecy! Man cannot erase it!

Also, Our Blessed Mother made it quite clear, when Russia was consecrated to her Immaculate Heart…THERE WOULD BE PEACE IN THE WORLD! Look around you…do you see peace? Popes have consecrated the’ world’ to The Immaculate Heart of Mary…THAT IS NOT RUSSIA…and also, this was to be done WITH ALL THE BISHOPS PUBLICLY! The whole world would have set up and taken notice of this…and you ’ know’ this has not been fulfilled as Our Blessed Mother requested…

Read the facts for yourself…View attachment 6311