The three

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We believe in on God in three distinct persons and each person is perfect God.

My question is where does this “trinity” and distinction exist? In essence?

If yes, How can God be simple?

If no, How can it be one God?
 
We believe in on God in three distinct persons and each person is perfect God.

My question is where does this “trinity” and distinction exist? In essence?

If yes, How can God be simple?

If no, How can it be one God?
substance/accident
form/matter
act/potency
essence/existence

These are some of the most popular scholastic/aristotelian distinctions in philosophy of nature and metaphysics. The distinction between the Persons of the Trinity is not based on any of these.

What can we say other than the distinction is a real distinction but at the same time it is not one of these distinctions. A mystery, no doubt!
 
substance/accident
form/matter
act/potency
essence/existence

These are some of the most popular scholastic/aristotelian distinctions in philosophy of nature and metaphysics. The distinction between the Persons of the Trinity is not based on any of these.

What can we say other than the distinction is a real distinction but at the same time it is not one of these distinctions. A mystery, no doubt!
Of course, we have trinity. My question was on it.
 
Ever heard of three leafs on one stem of clover? Must be God’s favorite plant. He made so many of them. 😃
 
God is Love. He transcends individuality. God the Father loves the Son, who returns that love in His obedience to The Father’s will; The Holy Spirit proceeds from and joins each to the other.
How about, the Knower, the Known and the Knowing - each persons in God.
The idea of the Trinity is complex; the reality of God is simple.
“One” is actually not simple at all:
  • How does one exist without there being other?
  • What is the relationship between one and other?
 
God is Love. He transcends individuality. God the Father loves the Son, who returns that love in His obedience to The Father’s will; The Holy Spirit proceeds from and joins each to the other.
How about, the Knower, the Known and the Knowing - each persons in God.
The idea of the Trinity is complex; the reality of God is simple.
“One” is actually not simple at all:
  • How does one exist without there being other?
  • What is the relationship between one and other?
Dear Aloysium

If Knower is not known and the known & Knower are not the knowing, God has three distinction units in his Essence and that means he is not simple. We have such condition exists in you explain of love.
 
Dear Aloysium

If Knower is not known and the known & Knower are not the knowing, God has three distinction units in his Essence and that means he is not simple. We have such condition exists in you explain of love.
For the most part, I don’t use these terms such as “essence” to understand things.
I find that it is not so much that they clarify the nature of God as it is that what we know of God justifies that philosophical system.
Since God has been revealed to have a Triune nature, maybe that is what you are trying to do as well.

Whatever.
To clarify what I meant, since it was unclear:
We can understand God by understanding ourselves, since we are created in His image.
What we know for sure is the moment. This moment is simple; it is simply what it is.
Our intellect can discern elements within the simplicity.
So here we are attending to what is written - a very simple unity which we can describe in terms of knower, knowing and known.
One event, the moment, three parts to it. In God these are Persons.
In God’s image we are made self-and-other (Adam and Eve). In human relations, the known is also a knower.
In love, self and other are united in a mutual giving to one another.
If love which connects the two is considered an entity in itself, we get three in one.
Very simple, rather complex.
 
For the most part, I don’t use these terms such as “essence” to understand things.
I find that it is not so much that they clarify the nature of God as it is that what we know of God justifies that philosophical system.
Since God has been revealed to have a Triune nature, maybe that is what you are trying to do as well.

Whatever.
To clarify what I meant, since it was unclear:
We can understand God by understanding ourselves, since we are created in His image.
What we know for sure is the moment. This moment is simple; it is simply what it is.
Our intellect can discern elements within the simplicity.
So here we are attending to what is written - a very simple unity which we can describe in terms of knower, knowing and known.
One event, the moment, three parts to it. In God these are Persons.
In God’s image we are made self-and-other (Adam and Eve). In human relations, the known is also a knower.
In love, self and other are united in a mutual giving to one another.
If love which connects the two is considered an entity in itself, we get three in one.
Very simple, rather complex.
Dear Aloysium

You said: “Since God has been revealed to have a Triune nature, maybe that is what you are trying to do as well.”

It is modalism. Persons are not revelation of God, and God may have more than three revelation. Each person is Perfect God.

And, When I love my self, or I know my self, I am one person! The person who knows and loves and the person who is known and the person who is loved are all one person, in human. And if you say they are three, Human is not a simple being and it is possible for humen; But God is simple and I can’t imagine that he has three distinct units in himself, Because a simple being has no distinction inside.
 
Dear Aloysium

You said: “Since God has been revealed to have a Triune nature, maybe that is what you are trying to do as well.”

It is modalism. Persons are not revelation of God, and God may have more than three revelation. . .
Sorry for not being clear. I have access to only my cell phone for a while. I meant to say that perhaps you are trying to justify a system of philosophy or are trying to understand it. I cannot say I do.

As to thinking that you exist as merely an entity onto yourself, I don’t know what to say about that. Even though we are individual souls, that soul is a manifestation of mankind, and may be understood as a branch in the one true vine, existing eternally in relation to God, others and all creation.

Even that we can love ourselves is possible through Gods loving us. At any rate, you seem to dislike analogies and philosophy. It maybe that you are frustrated with people’s responses.

Since the Trinity is the revealed truth of God, perhaps you are being called to surrender your thoughts to God and enter into a deeper relationship with him.
 
There is one and the same Essence in the Godhead, and Three Persons in the Essence. If you say there are three essences, then you have three Gods, … and possibly more. A Hindu would then argue their Gods are also God, with there own Essence. 🙂
 
Sorry for not being clear. I have access to only my cell phone for a while. I meant to say that perhaps you are trying to justify a system of philosophy or are trying to understand it. I cannot say I do.

As to thinking that you exist as merely an entity onto yourself, I don’t know what to say about that. Even though we are individual souls, that soul is a manifestation of mankind, and may be understood as a branch in the one true vine, existing eternally in relation to God, others and all creation.

Even that we can love ourselves is possible through Gods loving us. At any rate, you seem to dislike analogies and philosophy. It maybe that you are frustrated with people’s responses.

Since the Trinity is the revealed truth of God, perhaps you are being called to surrender your thoughts to God and enter into a deeper relationship with him.
Dear Aloysium

I like analogies and philosophy. We all accepted Trinity by our faith in Catholic Church, But for seeking a reasonable faith I ask my questions.
 
There is one and the same Essence in the Godhead, and Three Persons in the Essence. If you say there are three essences, then you have three Gods, … and possibly more. A Hindu would then argue their Gods are also God, with there own Essence. 🙂
Dear Serpent

The problem is not only on Polytheism: If there are three persons in the Essence, how can say he is simple?
 
Dear Serpent

The problem is not only on Polytheism: If there are three persons in the Essence, how can say he is simple?
Not being a Theologian, I will try to answer this. By “Simple” I believe it means God’s “Essence” is not made up of parts. We are made up of atoms, molecules, cells, etc. God 's “Essence” is not made up of anything, but is pure spirit. There are no gears in God like in a traditional watch. So “Simple” means God is pure and all spirit. The “Three” all are of one and the same spirit/essence. So they are “simple” in this understanding. Okay?
 
Not being a Theologian, I will try to answer this. By “Simple” I believe it means God’s “Essence” is not made up of parts. We are made up of atoms, molecules, cells, etc. God 's “Essence” is not made up of anything, but is pure spirit. There are no gears in God like in a traditional watch. So “Simple” means God is pure and all spirit. The “Three” all are of one and the same spirit/essence. So they are “simple” in this understanding. Okay?
Dear Serpent

Problem is not word “part”. You say “gears”, OK, in your example, the traditional watch is not made up of gears! and so your example does not work. There are three distinct persons in God’s Essence and The problem is on!
 
Dear Serpent

Problem is not word “part”. You say “gears”, OK, in your example, the traditional watch is not made up of gears! and so your example does not work. There are three distinct persons in God’s Essence and The problem is on!
The persons are not “parts” of God. Each person is God whole and entire, God is not divided up among the Persons.
 
The persons are not “parts” of God. Each person is God whole and entire, God is not divided up among the Persons.
Dear amandil

X is a symbol for one number, when X=1 you can’t say X=2.

God is one, When he is the father and the father is not the son, How Can God be the son?
 
Dear amandil

X is a symbol for one number, when X=1 you can’t say X=2.

God is one, When he is the father and the father is not the son, How Can God be the son?
God is not reducible to even and odd integers or quantities. So there is no contradiction when the Church says, “the Father is God,” and, “Jesus is God,” or, “the Holy Spirit is God.”

There is no “when” or “when not” in God or eternity. The doctrine of the Trinity is not based on Modalism (or Sabellanism).
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javid:
How Can God be the son?
The same way that a duck begets a duck.

The Father eternally begets the Son; they are both in one essence(or nature)God, both have the same nature, but are distinct persons.
 
Help please
:twocents: You may wish to ask in the silence of your prayers and contemplations. I will pray that God grant you the grace to know and love Him ever more deeply. Without that relationship, all this is noise.
 
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