The Traditional Catholic "Movement"

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archangel04 said:
Lol that is a good one.
I prrefer the EF as well, but I see the OF valid and attend it sometimes as well.
I also despise 'folk Masses;, but I do have a big problem with “Altar girls”.
I also take COTT, and wish CITH would be taken away
I wish eucharisitc minister would be abolished, but I understand that there are those who serve that position by Faith.
I don’t see the porblem with allowing some married Catholic men to become priest
So maybe your not the only one who is scewed up?
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Geez! What’s the matter with you? Can’t you fit yourself into one of these little stereotypical boxes? TRY HARDER!!! 😉
 
hcc said:
yes, i agree, if all things were equal. All things, however, are not equal at this time. A nun who serves at an abortion clinic and calls herself catholic and a mother who strives to uphold the church’s teaching on birth control, family planning and all other areas of faith and morals who calls herself a catholic are not the same thing. One has placed herself outside the church by her actions and most likely consistent dissent of articles of faith. The other, is trying her best to understand and uphold church teaching, lead a holy life and pass on the faith to her children in spite of that type of sister influencing her children in school or ccd classes.

Yes, it is very, very sad that we are in this boat. Most “traditional” catholics are simply just catholics. I don’t know anyone in the traditionalist camp who goes around wearing that title on their sleeves. They are deeply pained by all the issues at play, when they simply want the true, beautiful faith handed down by the apostles, church fathers and expounded on by saints throughout the ages.

Many people who are upset by said titles (and i’ll refrain from examples here) are the very same people who allowed the crisis and divisions we now see in the church. Mostly, by allowing radical and subtle dissent and ambiguity to reign in their dioceses and parishes. Those things are just starting to be addressed. I see the investigation into the state of women’s religious congregations in the us and the investigation into the doctrinal content of the lcwr to be very good places to begin.

Yes, knowing and living our faith individually and working to save our own souls is “our job” and as vatican ii stated, contemplatives are the heart of the church. Many of the orders flourishing right now, particularly in france are contemplatives. That is a wonderful sign at the heart of the church. However, that does not detract from the importance of various people, like michael davies and many, many others, who for the last 40 years have called church leaders out on things and even approached, then, cardinal ratzinger, to help him understand the effects of the misapplication of vatican ii ‘in the pews.’ these warnings from concerned “traditional catholics” have helped pave the way for a reform of the reform. And god bless all those at the forefront of this work.

So, you see, while it is very unfortunate that we are at a place where we have “way-way-outs,” “heterodox,” “extreme left,” “lefties,” “traditionalists,” “centrists,” “orthodox,” “orthodox, but wears pants and doesn’t cover her hair,” etc…etc…etc… These are a way, for better or for worse, to help clarify who is who and what is what in these very murky times. I am not, again, not saying this is the ideal, but we are not in an ideal state of unity within the church.
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excellent post!!
 
CradleCath said:
Thank you, THANK YOU!!
I was hoping that someone would notice this. One who is not in full Communion with the Pope, cannot be considered Catholic.
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Actually, any persons baptised into the Catholic faith are Catholic for life. They may not be practicing Catholics (in the case of atheists or converts to other faiths) or they may not be good Catholics (in the case of those who sadly advocate for birth control, abortion, gay marriage, euthanasia, or who obstinately adhere to the illegal Masses of the SSPX).
 
Ockham said:
Really? Check the stats these past forty years. I suspect many people with the best intentions didn’t get into Heaven due to these modern changes. When Catholics start making Mass every Sunday, regular Confession, receive the Blessed Sacrament in a state of grace, then we’re back on track.
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You should come to Franciscan and you will see all of this (and dont forget perpetual adoration!)
 
Stylites said:
they may not be good Catholics (in the case of those who sadly advocate for birth control, abortion, gay marriage, euthanasia, or who obstinately adhere to the illegal Masses of the SSPX).
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Attending Mass at an SSPX chapel does not belong in the same category as these other things you list. They are all intrinsically immoral. The morality of attending an illicit Mass depends on the circumstances. In some cases, it is a moral act and the people doing it are good Catholics.

Meanwhile, why are you making such provocative comments about people with whom the Pope is attempting reconciliation? How can you oppose his wishes like this?
 
JustaServant said:
Elaborate please.
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With the Novus Ordo, ambiguous Council documents and Catechesim along with weak catechesis came a decline in reverence and belief in the Real Presence, weekly Mass attendance and regular Confession. If you die with a mortal sin on your soul The Church teaches your odds of eternal salvation aren’t good. Being Catholic is more than just the name of the building you go into Sunday mornings. The break with tradition cost many of us our heritage, identity, and centuries of riches.
 
Ockham said:
With the Novus Ordo, ambiguous Council documents and Catechesim along with weak catechesis came a decline in reverence and belief in the Real Presence, weekly Mass attendance and regular Confession. If you die with a mortal sin on your soul The Church teaches your odds of eternal salvation aren’t good. Being Catholic is more than just the name of the building you go into Sunday mornings. The break with tradition cost many of us our heritage, identity, and centuries of riches.
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None of this is the fault of Vatican 2. You are simply looking for a scapegoat to blame. The declaine in faithfulness among Catholics is not the fault of Vatican 2. Think about it, there has been a decline in all Christian faiths. Or is the decline of the Southern Baptists the fault of Vatican 2 as well?
 
StTommyMore said:
None of this is the fault of Vatican 2. You are simply looking for a scapegoat to blame. The declaine in faithfulness among Catholics is not the fault of Vatican 2. Think about it, there has been a decline in all Christian faiths. Or is the decline of the Southern Baptists the fault of Vatican 2 as well?
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No, it isn’t fault of Vatican II, but rather the misapplication of Vatican II. Some did and still do think it means, “free for all.” Or, as I recently read, one Benedictine abbot’s recent comments, “Paul VI and JPII offered 30 feet of shelf space for the interpretation of Vatican II.”

True or not, some bishops, priests, religious and laity believe that.
 
Stylites said:
Actually, any persons baptised into the Catholic faith are Catholic for life. They may not be practicing Catholics (in the case of atheists or converts to other faiths) or they may not be good Catholics (in the case of those who sadly advocate for birth control, abortion, gay marriage, euthanasia, or who obstinately adhere to the illegal Masses of the SSPX).
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your hatreth for the Mass of always is noticed.
 
HCC said:
No, it isn’t fault of Vatican II, but rather the misapplication of Vatican II. Some did and still do think it means, “free for all.” Or, as I recently read, one Benedictine abbot’s recent comments, “Paul VI and JPII offered 30 feet of shelf space for the interpretation of Vatican II.”

True or not, some bishops, priests, religious and laity believe that.
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A lot of wiggle room there.
 
Stylites said:
What is “hatreth”? Can’t you judge another’s soul and spell at the same time?
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I generally disagree with wisdomseeker, however, I cannot help but note your absolute hatred of the TLM. It woud be good for you to understand that the Church existed well before the Pauline Mass.
 
floresco said:
Attending Mass at an SSPX chapel does not belong in the same category as these other things you list. They are all intrinsically immoral. The morality of attending an illicit Mass depends on the circumstances. In some cases, it is a moral act and the people doing it are good Catholics.
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The moral status of the illegal SSPX Mass is the same as if any other defrocked and disgraced priests were officiating. Illegal is still illegal. Lawlessness is still lawlessness.
 
StTommyMore said:
I generally disagree with wisdomseeker, however, I cannot help but note your absolute hatred of the TLM. It woud be good for you to understand that the Church existed well before the Pauline Mass.
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Shame on you for your judgmentalism. I have only love for any form of any Rite of any licit Mass, and while I forgive you, I would advise you to repent.
 
Stylites said:
Shame on you for your judgmentalism.
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It is not judgmental to notice that you come across as very hostile and negative whenever you mention anything to do with the EF. I’m not judging why you do this, but anyone can observe the way you write.
 
  1. There is to be no arguing and rudeness toward others, present or absent.
  2. The canonical status of the deacons, priests and bishops of the SSPX is that of suspended. It would be correct to say that they have no canonical status as is the case for those who have been suspended for other disciplinary reasons. It would be grossly immoral to say that all those who are suspended are guilty of the same faults.
  3. To make a statement about the moral status of any suspended cleric is a violation of charity and will not be tolerated.
I have deleted several posts that make moral judgments against the priests of the SSPX or have engaged in crossfire. They deserve the same respect as anyone else. Please comply.

Please read and correct before you post.

Thomas Casey
Moderator
 
StTommyMore said:
None of this is the fault of Vatican 2. You are simply looking for a scapegoat to blame. The declaine in faithfulness among Catholics is not the fault of Vatican 2. Think about it, there has been a decline in all Christian faiths. Or is the decline of the Southern Baptists the fault of Vatican 2 as well?
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The Church should be looked at as a leader, not a follower. Have you considered the possiblity of the other religious groups declining because we have?

I’m not blaming the Council itself (although it clear wasn’t one of the best) but the modernists who wreaked havoc after it.
 
StTommyMore said:
I generally disagree with wisdomseeker, however, I cannot help but note your absolute hatred of the TLM. It woud be good for you to understand that the Church existed well before the Pauline Mass.
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thank you. some people tend to forget that the Church is 2000 years, way before they were borne. if they just try to read some history and the history of the Mass, we wouldnt be here acting foolish. we defend the Mass that we had from the beginning while the modernists wants a Mass of the times. no offense intended. i quite understand when some people continue to quote from the last 3 popes but forget all the popes from the past as if they never existed.
 
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