The Treatment of Gays

[GeorgeSword]

I will not justify the acts of homosexuals, as they cannot be justified. They are, plainly and simply, wrong, immoral and sinful, but so, too, are many other things. But just because someone is a sinner, no matter how grevously so, does not mean that they ought to be rejected or looked down upon. I find it to be far more effective in evangelization and for keeping a positive image of the Church in society to not be so much full of rejection as to be full of love and acceptance. I don’t mean acceptance in the sense of ignoring the sin or saying it is not sin, but in the sense of welcoming in with the hope of forgiveness and healing. We are all sinners, and the Church is a hospital for sinners.Within it are tools of healing, the Sacraments and prayer, tools of learning, the Scriptures and Traditions, teachers, the clergy, and brothers, the laity, and so much more. God has put within it all of the tools that lead someone from the deepest sin to the salvation of the Holy Spirit, to repentance. But to find these things, one must first come to the Church. And here lies our problem.
I see things that trouble me in the Church. They don’t shake my faith or anything like that, raise me to action. I hope that I am not misunderstood, but I find that much of the hostility towards the Church and Christianity in general comes from many things, but in particular our treatment of the homosexual community. I don’t disagree with the theology and the teaching that their actions are wrong, but I do disagree with the way it is handled by much of the laity.
I speak frankly and say that it is with great hostility, and it drives away more than it pulls towards. Sometimes it is even hate. I don’t speak at anyone in particular, but are we supposed to drive away and make hostile the sinners, or draw towards with love and charity so that they can be saved?
I’m not talking about acceptance as it has been done by some, I’m not talking about something like the Episcopalians do, they ignore the sins entirely, but simply a loving charity and welcomeness that I see so little of.

 

[Andrew_Phillip]

**As a faithful Orthodox Christian… I agree with every single thing you have said here.

I am most disturbed by the Roman Catholic practice of denial of the Eucharist - Holy Communion to homosexual people.

The sin is to be sincerely repented of, but the individual is not to be shunned or isolated as Roman Catholics do - by denial of the healing, restorative and redemptive sacrament of the Eucharist.

Christ did not do this - he first healed then asked people to go and sin no more.

This applies to us all… not just to heterosexuals.**

 

[James_Least]

Pray for their salvation for sure.

But do not put them in charge! Do not cover it up!

The teaching in I Cor. 5 applies.

A little leaven leavens the whole lump.

Peace.

James Least

 

[Andrew_Phillip]

**Yeah James…

I agree… pray for sinners - and also pray for forgiveness for our own sins.

But why do Roman Catholics deny the Eucharist to one single class of sinner?

Did Christ deny anyone?**

 

[doughnut]

**Yeah James…

I agree… pray for sinners - and also pray for forgiveness for our own sins.

But why do Roman Catholics deny the Eucharist to one single class of sinner?

Did Christ deny anyone?**

Hang on…I don’t think they are ‘denied’ in the sense that anyone can still attend the celebration. I doubt it is denied to ‘one single class of sinner’ but rather, all who are ‘in sin’ are not supposed to receive the holy communion. But, the the way it’s put here sound as if ‘the only purpose one attended the Eucharist’ is just to consume the body of Christ. That’s really very sad if that’s the case because there’s alot more the celebration has to offer.

 

[Silyosha]

I agree–they should never be looked down upon, but that doesn’t mean we should approve of the sin. It isn’t only them who shouldn’t partake in the Eucharist…anyone with a mortal sin on their soul is not supposed to partake.

 

[Joseph_L_Varga]

Gays who confessed any sins they may have committed, are allowed to partake of the Eucharist. People who experience homosexual temptations are also allowed to partake of the Eucharist, as long as they stay chaste. Those who have fallen, can simply make an act of repentance, confess their sins, resolve not to sin anymore, and bingo - their sins are erased, and they can take the Eucharist.

In my mind, the treatment is the same as with any other sins. I’m a heterosexual single male, and I am supposed to stay chaste, which means I should stay away from any sexual activity, too (as well as stay away from pornography, lusting after women, etc). Married heterosexuals are also supposed to stay within the confines of chastity, which in their case means they are forbidden to lust after, or have sex with, anybody else than their own spouse. And we all are allowed to have communion, as long as we stay chaste in spite of any temptations we may experience. If we sin, we are all forbidden to have communion, until such time as we repent and confess our sins. Homosexual and heterosexual people are subject to the same treatment in the Catholic Church.

 

[michaeldaniels]

What are you talking about? The Eucharist is not denied to people who are attracted to the same sex? As long as they live celibate and have confessed any mortal sin, then they can receive Communion…now if their life is a public scandal and they are publicly unrepentant, then a priest or Bishop may choose to refuse them Communion…but that isn’t limited to homosexuals…it could be pro-aborts, etc…Here is some food for thought:

The seven practices of Catholic charity toward our neighbor’s soul (spiritual works of mercy):

» Admonish sinners

» Instruct the ignorant

» Counsel the doubtful

» Comfort the sorrowful

» Bear wrongs patiently

» Forgive injuries

» Pray for the living and the dead

These are based on the teaching of Christ and on Church practice since apostolic times.

**Yeah James…

I agree… pray for sinners - and also pray for forgiveness for our own sins.

But why do Roman Catholics deny the Eucharist to one single class of sinner?

Did Christ deny anyone?**

 

[JohnCS]

It would seem that the OP and Andrew Phillips are listening to the same mass media propaganda about the evil church hating gays. This is simply not the case. The church welcomes everyone with open arms, but it can not and will not change the Truth so that others can feel better. Others have covered Andrews misconception of the Eucharist, so there is no need to go into that. The church has many many outreach programs aimed at helping gays with their temptations offering counciling and guidance and open loving arms. Don’t drink the media Kool-aid. If the OP has witnessed INDIVIDUALS acting poorly towards gays, well that needs to be handled, but it is not the church. God Bless.**

 

[JohnCS]

Oh, here is what the Catechism of the Catholic Chruch says… it sounds very hateful to me!

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. They do not choose their homosexual condition; for most of them it is a trial. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

I never see the mass media using this as a referance.

 

[FidesSpesCarita]

**Yeah James…

I agree… pray for sinners - and also pray for forgiveness for our own sins.

But why do Roman Catholics deny the Eucharist to one single class of sinner?

Did Christ deny anyone?**

They are not denied for their homosexuality.

They are denied for the same reason any sinner would be denied, lack of repentance. I dont know of very many active homosexual men or women who would give a good confession and affirm to repent of their sins and amend their life…

And, for the record, I have never seen, nor have I heard of, anyone being refused communion by the priest. I know of several people who have been requested not to present themselves until they attempt to amend their lives, but none who have been refused. I DO know of several who, IMHO should have been refused, but that is not my judgement to make, nor is it any elses.

FSC

 

[tafan]

**Yeah James…

I agree… pray for sinners - and also pray for forgiveness for our own sins.

But why do Roman Catholics deny the Eucharist to one single class of sinner?

Did Christ deny anyone?**

Serious question, where would you get this strange idea? The church simply says that those who are in a state of grave sin are not to receive communion. There are lots of grave sins, all of which can be absolved in confession.

 

[Newbie2]

**Yeah James…

I agree… pray for sinners - and also pray for forgiveness for our own sins.

But why do Roman Catholics deny the Eucharist to one single class of sinner?

Did Christ deny anyone?**

Maybe it’s the same reason certain forumites on the CAF hijack threads. There’s another entire discussion with Mr. Andrew Phillip on "denial of the Eucharist by the RCC to homosexuals. Please go there if you want to discuss that topic.

In deference to the OP in this thread, I’d like to say that much of the response of the laity, IMHO, is directed toward and fueled by the onslaught of media, social and political “Pro-gay” pressure. EVERY DAY we hear about how we’re being forced to accept the “homosexual agenda”, how our right to our religious opposition to sin is being chipped away, bit by bit.

Is that an excuse for shunning homosexual Catholics/christians in the way that some do? Nope, but it makes it a bit more understandable as to why we’re prone to do so.

 

[Timbothefiveth]

am most disturbed by the Roman Catholic practice of denial of the Eucharist - Holy Communion to homosexual people.

The sin is to be sincerely repented of, but the individual is not to be shunned or isolated as Roman Catholics do - by denial of the healing, restorative and redemptive sacrament of the Eucharist.

Alright, first of all, it’s not denied to all homosexuals. A chaste homosexual in a state of grace would not be denied. Second, it’s not denied just to active homosexuals. It’s denied to anyone commiting what are likely mortal sins without the intention of stopping them. It would be denied to a hitman who kept taking contracts, to a thief who refused to leave his gang, etc. It’s not just to active homosexuals. Third, giving someone the Eucharist when the are in a state of mortal sin is not going to heal them, he who recieves the Eucharist in a state of mortal sin “drinks wrath”.

Christ healed people and told them to “sin no more”, but He didn’t give them the Eucharist first. I’m pretty sure that sacraments such as the annointing of the sick aren’t restricted to those only in a state of grace.

 

[BobObob]

It would seem that the OP and Andrew Phillips are listening to the same mass media propaganda about the evil church hating gays. This is simply not the case. The church welcomes everyone with open arms, but it can not and will not change the Truth so that others can feel better. Others have covered Andrews misconception of the Eucharist, so there is no need to go into that. The church has many many outreach programs aimed at helping gays with their temptations offering counciling and guidance and open loving arms. Don’t drink the media Kool-aid. If the OP has witnessed INDIVIDUALS acting poorly towards gays, well that needs to be handled, but it is not the church. God Bless.**

I am a homosexual Catholic who is attempting to live a celibate life. I have definitely experienced GREAT hostility. This hostility is more of a passive hostility. People look down on me when they find out about my SSA (same sex attractions) and try to keep me at arms length. CCC 2358 says that “Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided,” but the average Catholic does NOT even come close to following that. Take my word for it, I am rarely met with open arms by a Catholic who knows about my SSA, which is why I try to keep it a secret (this forum is OK because I’m anonymous).

The media tries to slam the Church by saying that the institution of the Catholic Church is against homosexual/gay people, which is not true. The average Catholic however, does not want to associate with, and looks down upon, individuals with SSA (even if they are chaste).

Can you name a significant Catholic outreach program in the US for homosexual Catholics? There is Courage, which has only 90 tiny chapters in the entire country, but that’s it (at least for me).

The Eucharist is denied to all who are in PUBLIC mortal sin and PUBLICLY refuse to repent.

 

[EasterJoy]

I am a homosexual Catholic who is attempting to live a celibate life. I have definitely experienced GREAT hostility. This hostility is more of a passive hostility. People look down on me when they find out about my SSA (same sex attractions) and try to keep me at arms length. CCC 2358 says that “Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided,” but the average Catholic does NOT even come close to following that. Take my word for it, I am rarely met with open arms by a Catholic who knows about my SSA, which is why I try to keep it a secret (this forum is OK because I’m anonymous)…

Unfortunately, although I can easily believe that you get the most outrageous treatment, you are not alone. If you go over to the Parenting thread, you’ll find that there are Catholic mothers who have many small children get the “arms length” and “you do know what causes that?” treatment from other Catholics. Even heterosexuals who choose to be celibate, but who do not take religious vows, get all sorts of comments, too. People who are in legitimate professions that someone else decides is not holy enough get it, too–the bankers, the salespeople, the attorneys, the soldiers, you name it. There are even Republicans with the conviction that voting for a Democrat should lead any good Catholic to disqualify himself or herself from Holy Communion (and vice versa, I’m sure, though I’ve not seen that particular one here).

In other words, this treatment is not about your cross. As you have correctly guessed, it can have to do with a lack of compassion. It can have to do with a sort of a co-dependence by which people cannot stand to mind their own business. It can have to do with a fear in the person mistreating you that accepting you will release SSA within that person. It can have to do with all sorts of human frailties.

All I can say is this: the measure you measure with will be measured out to you. If you bear a great cross with great equanimity and compassion, and particularly when that compassion is not returned in kind, you will not go without help, nor without your reward.

 

[Timbothefiveth]

There are even Republicans with the conviction that voting for a Democrat should lead any good Catholic to disqualify himself or herself from Holy Communion (and vice versa, I’m sure, though I’ve not seen that particular one here).

I think the issue is voting for pro-abortion candidates, at least here. If they are only talking about party affiliation, they are definantly wrong.

@BobObob, I’m sorry you’re treated that way.

 

[tafan]

I am a homosexual Catholic who is attempting to live a celibate life. I have definitely experienced GREAT hostility. This hostility is more of a passive hostility. People look down on me when they find out about my SSA (same sex attractions) and try to keep me at arms length. CCC 2358 says that “Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided,” but the average Catholic does NOT even come close to following that. Take my word for it, I am rarely met with open arms by a Catholic who knows about my SSA, which is why I try to keep it a secret (this forum is OK because I’m anonymous).

The media tries to slam the Church by saying that the institution of the Catholic Church is against homosexual/gay people, which is not true. The average Catholic however, does not want to associate with, and looks down upon, individuals with SSA (even if they are chaste).

Can you name a significant Catholic outreach program in the US for homosexual Catholics? There is Courage, which has only 90 tiny chapters in the entire country, but that’s it (at least for me).

The Eucharist is denied to all who are in PUBLIC mortal sin and PUBLICLY refuse to repent.

Well, speaking as someone who has a family member in the same situation as you, here is what I think might be the case. I do not think the church institutionally treats my brother with any hostility at all. I suspect the problem you have is more from individual catholics and you would meet the same reaction in any denomination that is not very liberal. It is an unfortunate result of the way many of us were raised (call it homophobic or whatever). As such, you are experiencing hostibilty from catholics, who are all sinners and not from the church. The church is holy, but it is full of unholy people. I am not saying this as a defense of the church, but to try to help make it seem worth your while to stick with the church, even in the face of sinful behavior directed at you.

 

[Jermosh]

I am a homosexual Catholic who is attempting to live a celibate life. I have definitely experienced GREAT hostility. This hostility is more of a passive hostility. People look down on me when they find out about my SSA (same sex attractions) and try to keep me at arms length. CCC 2358 says that “Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided,” but the average Catholic does NOT even come close to following that. Take my word for it, I am rarely met with open arms by a Catholic who knows about my SSA, which is why I try to keep it a secret (this forum is OK because I’m anonymous).

The media tries to slam the Church by saying that the institution of the Catholic Church is against homosexual/gay people, which is not true. The average Catholic however, does not want to associate with, and looks down upon, individuals with SSA (even if they are chaste).

Can you name a significant Catholic outreach program in the US for homosexual Catholics? There is Courage, which has only 90 tiny chapters in the entire country, but that’s it (at least for me).

The Eucharist is denied to all who are in PUBLIC mortal sin and PUBLICLY refuse to repent.

:hug1:

 

[Mike_Dye]

**As a faithful Orthodox Christian… I agree with every single thing you have said here.

I am most disturbed by the Roman Catholic practice of denial of the Eucharist - Holy Communion to homosexual people.

The sin is to be sincerely repented of, but the individual is not to be shunned or isolated as Roman Catholics do - by denial of the healing, restorative and redemptive sacrament of the Eucharist.

Christ did not do this - he first healed then asked people to go and sin no more.

This applies to us all… not just to heterosexuals.**

More than anything I wish you guys would spend 15 minutes or so looking up Church teaching. It is no wonder that so many people outside of the Church reject Her teachings. Why wouldn’t they? Most Catholics couldn’t define what the Church teaches any better than we do here on these forums.
Where in the world did any of you guys come up with the idea that Gays were hated or refused communion. This is complete nonsense. Gays like single Catholics as well as Clergy and married Catholics need to be chaste according to their state in life. If this is the case all, gay or not, can receive the sacraments.