P
Psychotheosophy
Guest
Using Old and New Testament scriptures,
Please explain how eating from the tree of life relates to receiving the Blessed Eucharist.
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Please explain how eating from the tree of life relates to receiving the Blessed Eucharist.
P
Peter_Dawson
Guest
The Tree of Life is the cross bearing Christ. The Eucharist is the fruit of the cross, because the Eucharist is the sacrificed flesh of crucified Christ.
In the Old Testament we see this idea foreshadowed when Jesus being sacrificed on the Tree of Life is foreshadowed by the sacrifice of five kings on “trees.” Joshua 10:26-27. In the New Testament we see the Apostles relating the cross of Christ to the Tree of Life when they repeatedly call the cross a “tree.” Acts 5:30, 10:40, 13:29.
P
Psychotheosophy
Guest
Thanks for being concise.
But,
In the quote in the OP,
God has cast out humanity from the garden of Eden,
If God has abandoned us,
How do we return,
To eat from the tree of life?
C
Crumpy
Guest
I’ve been reading Jewish commentaries on Genesis and, in general, Genesis uses many concepts and ideas that it assumes the reader is familiar with. For example, when Adam and Eve are expelled from the garden, a cherubim and (separately) a flaming sword are positioned to guard and block the path to the garden, and specically to the tree of life.
Large, luscious trees were ordinarily appreciated for the vitality that they represent. But, they had a pagan significance for their being so high, that they even touched the heavens. Thus, they were a conduit to the Almighty. So, the tree of life was an intellectual concept that the ancient people would have been familiar with. The inclusion in Genesis is such that it demytholigizes the pagan superstitions generally, but it retains a connection to the belief in and the desire for immortality, expressed as it was in the preceding posts.
In exodus, the burning bush was vaguely a tree. The fire symbolized the presence and manifestation of God, and the tree symbolized Israel and its uncorrupted vitality, referring to its present condition of enslavement in Egypt, yet even prospering in that environment.
We accept the general idea that the New Testament is “hidden” in the Old Testament. On the road to Emmaus, Jesus gave the two disciples the best bible study lesson ever given, telling them how the scriptures referred to Him.
In that vein, you visualize Jesus as being the divine “fruit” of that tree, that brings eternal life, particularly as we participate in the Eucharist mystery.
Prov 3:18 She [wisdom] is a tree of life to those who grasp her,
and he is happy who holds her fast.
Rev 2:7 " ‘“Whoever has ears ought to hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the victor * I will give the right to eat from the tree of life that is in the garden of God.”’
“a” tree of life is a general image and metaphor in scripture for Christ, from whom all life originates.
Large, luscious trees were ordinarily appreciated for the vitality that they represent. But, they had a pagan significance for their being so high, that they even touched the heavens. Thus, they were a conduit to the Almighty. So, the tree of life was an intellectual concept that the ancient people would have been familiar with. The inclusion in Genesis is such that it demytholigizes the pagan superstitions generally, but it retains a connection to the belief in and the desire for immortality, expressed as it was in the preceding posts.
In exodus, the burning bush was vaguely a tree. The fire symbolized the presence and manifestation of God, and the tree symbolized Israel and its uncorrupted vitality, referring to its present condition of enslavement in Egypt, yet even prospering in that environment.
We accept the general idea that the New Testament is “hidden” in the Old Testament. On the road to Emmaus, Jesus gave the two disciples the best bible study lesson ever given, telling them how the scriptures referred to Him.
In that vein, you visualize Jesus as being the divine “fruit” of that tree, that brings eternal life, particularly as we participate in the Eucharist mystery.
Prov 3:18 She [wisdom] is a tree of life to those who grasp her,
and he is happy who holds her fast.
Rev 2:7 " ‘“Whoever has ears ought to hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the victor * I will give the right to eat from the tree of life that is in the garden of God.”’
“a” tree of life is a general image and metaphor in scripture for Christ, from whom all life originates.
P
Peter_Dawson
Guest
Hi. The answer to your question here is buried in the words comprising the context of the banning verse.
23 The LORD God therefore banished him from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from which he had been taken.
24 When he expelled the man, he settled him east of the garden of Eden; and he stationed the cherubim and the fiery revolving sword, to guard the way to the tree of life. Genesis 3:23-24.
The “cherubim” weren’t chubby little angel babies with wings who shoot love arrows on Valentine’s Day. They were powerful servants of God. But the way was “shamarred” or “guarded” by another mysterious thing: The fiery revolving sword.
What’s that?
Some kind of mystical destroying robot?..
henshinonline.com/images/mediablastersdvds_04.jpg
No.
In Bible typology, “fiery” = the Fire Type = “a special presence of God.” So, note: The bush where Moses met God was a “burning” bush, right? And when God came to Moses in Sinai, He came “in fire.” Exodus 19:18. When the Holy Spirit came to the Apostles, it was in the foem of “tongues like fire.” Acts 2:3.
Sword = the Sword Type = “the word of God.” The gospel, in other words. Paul says as much at Ephesians 6:17.
So, the gospel story about the special presence of God, Christ, regulates the way to the Tree of Life.
P
Peter_Dawson
Guest
In other words, the fiery revolving sword is how we get back in.
P
Psychotheosophy
Guest
So correct me if I’m wrong ,…
First,
God = Perfect Happiness = Existence = Eternal Life = Unity = Truth
But also,
Tree of Life = The Way to Eternal Life = Wisdom = Israel (Old and New Testaments?)
Flaming = Special Presence of God (OT and NT)
Sword = Word of God = (NT only?)
“…turned every way…” = universal quality of the sword? (e.g. spoke to pagans-Jewish commentary only?)
fruit of the Tree of Life = sacrificial flesh of Christ = Eucharist (NT only?)
The Christ = Tree of Life = Flaming Sword = King = fruit of the Tree of Life = Eucharist (NT only?)
“…one of us…” = God and the flaming sword? (“…Then the Lord God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of us…”)
Did Jesus he ever refer to himself as “God?”
P
Psychotheosophy
Guest
When Adam and Eve were cast out of the garden of Eden,
He was to “till the ground from which he was taken”
Then,
…Genesis 4:1-16…
Adam and Eve then had two sons,
Cain and Able.
Cain was a “tiller of the ground,” who “offered fruit of the ground” to God
Able was a “keeper of the sheep” who “offered a firstling of his flock and of their fat portions” to God
God had “regard” for Able’ offering, but not Cain’s
Why?
Cain killed Able in his anger about God’s offering preference,
Then,
Cain was punished, and
Cain “went away from the presence of the Lord and dwelt in the land of Nod, east of Eden.”
Isn’t the flaming sword east of Eden?
He was to “till the ground from which he was taken”
Then,
…Genesis 4:1-16…
Adam and Eve then had two sons,
Cain and Able.
Cain was a “tiller of the ground,” who “offered fruit of the ground” to God
Able was a “keeper of the sheep” who “offered a firstling of his flock and of their fat portions” to God
God had “regard” for Able’ offering, but not Cain’s
Why?
Cain killed Able in his anger about God’s offering preference,
Then,
Cain was punished, and
Cain “went away from the presence of the Lord and dwelt in the land of Nod, east of Eden.”
Isn’t the flaming sword east of Eden?
N
Nita
Guest
P
Peter_Dawson
Guest
Hi, Psycho. (Cool nickname.)
Sword in various forms is used as an Old Testament picture of the word, too.
Example: Exodus 21:5-6 comprises instructions for making a slave a permanent part of the household…
**5 If, however, the slave declares, ‘I am devoted to my master and my wife and children; I will not go free,’
6 his master shall bring him to God and there, at the door or doorpost, he shall pierce his ear with an awl, thus keeping him as his slave forever. **
The awl is a Sword Type analog – an expression of the Sword Type for “the word of God.” Note well what the “word of God” symbol is applied to – an ear!
What does the awl connect the slave to, through his ear? To a door, the type, or symbol, for Jesus! (See John 10:9: “I AM THE DOOR!”)
You also ask if Jesus every referred to Himself as “God.” Here: “30 The Father and I are one.” John 10:30.
Sword in various forms is used as an Old Testament picture of the word, too.
Example: Exodus 21:5-6 comprises instructions for making a slave a permanent part of the household…
**5 If, however, the slave declares, ‘I am devoted to my master and my wife and children; I will not go free,’
6 his master shall bring him to God and there, at the door or doorpost, he shall pierce his ear with an awl, thus keeping him as his slave forever. **
The awl is a Sword Type analog – an expression of the Sword Type for “the word of God.” Note well what the “word of God” symbol is applied to – an ear!
What does the awl connect the slave to, through his ear? To a door, the type, or symbol, for Jesus! (See John 10:9: “I AM THE DOOR!”)
You also ask if Jesus every referred to Himself as “God.” Here: “30 The Father and I are one.” John 10:30.
P
Peter_Dawson
Guest
You’re good!!! “East” = the Dawn Type = “resurrection land.”
The story of Cain and Abel is really a back-handed joke. Abel = Christ. Cain = mankind. Mankind, by murdering Christ, achieved a “trip to Resurrection Land,” salvation.
Sorry, I also forgot to answer why God preferred Abel’s sacrifice over Cain’s.
Abel standing there with his 'paschal animal" is a picture of Christ the Shepherd standing there with “Christ the Paschal Lamb”!!!
Cain’s garbagey produce sacrifices are a picture of the OT sacrifices merely foreshadowing Christ’s sacrifice.
P
Psychotheosophy
Guest
Hi Pete and Nita,
And
The Christ = The Way to Eternal Life
Then
Israel = The Christ?
(Israel deserves the utmost respect?)
Doesn’t scripture state that the Christian Church is “The Body of Christ?”
How can it be a trip to Resurrection Land?
How do you know the Christ is the Paschal Lamb?
What does the word “paschal” mean?
That sounds rather harsh,
Do you have other Old Testament scriptures to support that?
…And…
But man can not be God, right?
If Israel = The Way to Eternal Life
And
The Christ = The Way to Eternal Life
Then
Israel = The Christ?
(Israel deserves the utmost respect?)
Doesn’t scripture state that the Christian Church is “The Body of Christ?”
But murder is a sin, a separation from God.
How can it be a trip to Resurrection Land?
How do you know the Christ is the Shepard?
How do you know the Christ is the Paschal Lamb?
What does the word “paschal” mean?
“garbagey?”…
That sounds rather harsh,
Do you have other Old Testament scriptures to support that?
N
Nita
Guest
Of course man (a human person) cannot BE God; but we can “participate in the Divine nature”. (2 Peter 1:4)
But Jesus was not a human person, He was a Divine Person (who existed from all eternity) who united Himself to a human nature.
??? I don’t always understand your point. It’s nice to be concise, but you’re tooooo concise for me to grasp what you’re getting at!
“Israel = The Christ?” NO. Christ is a Person.
If you want to compare Israel to something, it would have to be compared to the Church.
Israel was the visible kingdom established under the Old Covenant; the Catholic Church is the visible kingdom established under the New Covenant.
If you want to compare Jesus to anything in the Old Covenant, then it would have to be:
Yahweh = Jesus.
And, of course Israel deserves respect.
Actually, it doesn’t say the “Christian” Church.
St. Paul speaks of “we”/“you” being members of the body (eg. Rom 12:4; 1 Cor 12:27). That would refer to the baptized believers.
And he speaks of the Church being his body (eg Eph 1:22-23; Eph 5:23). The Church that existed at that time (and today) is the Catholic Church.
I have to say that on this point in particular, I did not grasp your response.
My post - which you were responding to - had to do with the Eucharist being the New Covenant provision of the fruit of the tree of life which God has provided to give us eternal life.
By the way, if you are really Catholic, Psychotheosophy is a strange name to choose. Theosophy is a gnostic, new age religion/philosophy.
P
Peter_Dawson
Guest
What you are referring to is the “mystery” of the Hypostatic Union.
It seems to me that God can join Himself to the Body of Man, because God is God.
The story is a typological word picture. It is not history. Cain the man did not exist. He is merely a symbol for mankind, in the story. Therefore, the issue raised here – How can a killer named Cain make it to “Resurrection Land”? – does not occur.
11 I am the good shepherd. John 10:11.
**7 For our paschal lamb, Christ, has been sacrificed. 1 Corinthians 5:7. **
Passover.
It has to be deduced from conclusions made after much work.
Listen, I hope that you are not playing a version of the child’s “Why?” game. I.e., are you actually satisfying your curiosity here, and not just “stringing me along”?
G
grannymh
Guest
The Tree of Life and the Blessed Eucharist
Quote: opening post
Genesis 3:22-24
Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil; and now, lest he put forth his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever” - therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from which he was taken. He drove out the man; and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.
One of the first posts I read when I joined CAF sounded like a claim that the Body of Christ was just about the same as a piece of real fruit.
The only way that this post could make sense was to claim extreme off the wall poetic license in quasi interpretation of scriptures.
Personally, I think that this fruit tree stuff is another way to downgrade Transubstantiation.
It sounds like an anti-Catholic approach to turn the Real Presence into a symbol. For the actual Old Testament prefigurement of Holy Communioin, study John Chapter 6.
Blessings,
granny
All human life is worthy of profound respect.
Quote: opening post
Genesis 3:22-24
Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil; and now, lest he put forth his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever” - therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from which he was taken. He drove out the man; and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.
In my humble opinion, eating from the tree of life in the Garden of Eden is not one bit related to receiving the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity, of Jesus Christ, true God and true man, truly present in the Holy Eucharist under the appearance of bread and wine.
One of the first posts I read when I joined CAF sounded like a claim that the Body of Christ was just about the same as a piece of real fruit.
The only way that this post could make sense was to claim extreme off the wall poetic license in quasi interpretation of scriptures.Personally, I think that this fruit tree stuff is another way to downgrade Transubstantiation.
It sounds like an anti-Catholic approach to turn the Real Presence into a symbol. For the actual Old Testament prefigurement of Holy Communioin, study John Chapter 6.Blessings,
granny
All human life is worthy of profound respect.
N
Nita
Guest
I realize some of us find typology/prefigurement more interesting and meaninful than others. Be assured that in no way was I trying to downgrade transubstantiation.The Tree of Life and the Blessed Eucharist
In my humble opinion, eating from the tree of life in the Garden of Eden is not one bit related to receiving the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity, of Jesus Christ, true God and true man, truly present in the Holy Eucharist under the appearance of bread and wine.
One of the first posts I read when I joined CAF sounded like a claim that the Body of Christ was just about the same as a piece of real fruit.
Personally, I think that this fruit tree stuff is another way to downgrade Transubstantiation.
Also, relating the Tree of Life to the Eucharist is not some sort of novel idea. It’s been in writings by Church leaders for a long time. I know I’ve come across it more than once, unfortunately, can’t remember where for sure – very probably in the LOH Office of Readings.
I googled “Eucharist tree of life” and here are a couple of the first hits. .
(St. Albert the Great)
crossroadsinitiative.com/library_article/994/Fruit_of_the_Tree_of_Life_Albert_the_Great.html
(Cardinal Ratzinger, before he became pope)
willyoumarryme–god.blogspot.com/2008/02/ratzinger-cross-and-eucharistthe-tree.html
Some of the other links were very good also. Just google the same thing I did if you’re interested in reading more about it.
P
Psychotheosophy
Guest
I was looking to see how else Israel is analogous to Christ,
And how it connected to the other questions I asked.
G
grannymh
Guest
My apology if it looked like I was referring to you personally. The plus side is that you now have provided a proper source for language for the Eucharist. It is the improper use of scripture references which is harmful in the long run.
Thank you for the links. Obviously, these two writers are using beautiful language in referring to the Sacrament. Here is an out of context quote.
“Therefore the Eucharist, as the presence of the cross, is the abiding tree of life, which is ever in our midst and ever invites us to take the fruit of true life…”
Clearly, the “abiding tree of life” in this quote is not the same “eating of the tree of life in the Garden of Eden” which is what the OP was referencing and consequently what I referenced. For the actual Old Testament prefigurement of Holy Communioin, read John Chapter 6.
Blessings,
granny
All human life is sacred from the moment of conception.
N
Nita
Guest
I understood the OP to be asking for comparisons (type or prefigurement) between the eating the fruit on the Tree of Life in the garden and our receiving/eating of the Eucharist. I thought that was a very good question.
Granted the manna in the desert was a prefigurement of the Eucharist (John 6). But it is not the only type or prefigurement. The fruit of the tree of life is; the Passover Lamb and it’s being consumed is; the showbread is. Those are three that come to mind and there are probably more.
God bless,
Nita (I’m a granny too! Isn’t it wonderful?)
J
Jerry-Jet
Guest
If Adam and Eve had eaten of the Tree of Life in the Garden of Eden would they have received the Fullness of Grace that Mary later did?
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