The True Creation Story

[grannymh]

We don’t live in the spiritual realm is what I mean.

Currently we live on earth which is considered the material world. However, we have to consider the leap from the material world to the spiritual world , Genesis 1: 25 to Genesis 1: 27. Genesis 1: 27 definitely places us in the spiritual world of God.

We have a spiritual soul in the image of the pure spiritual Creator God. Because we live in the material world is why we are not identical to God. In order to live in the material world, we need a material body which needs nourishment and which eventually dies.

 

[simpleas]

Currently we live on earth which is considered the material world. However, we have to consider the leap from the material world to the spiritual world , Genesis 1: 25 to Genesis 1: 27. Genesis 1: 27 definitely places us in the spiritual world of God.

We have a spiritual soul in the image of the pure spiritual Creator God. Because we live in the material world is why we are not identical to God. In order to live in the material world, we need a material body which needs nourishment and which eventually dies.

 

[grannymh]

While understanding our material world is essentially important, we need to be careful of articles like this one. The material world as described by the basic evolution theory can gently lead us away from the True Creation story. Often it takes time and effort to find the errors in a pleasing article like this link. It is the subtle errors that attack.

catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/what-you-absolutely-need-to-understand-about-evolution

 

[Hunho]

While understanding our material world is essentially important, we need to be careful of articles like this one. The material world as described by the basic evolution theory can gently lead us away from the True Creation story. Often it takes time and effort to find the errors in a pleasing article like this link. It is the subtle errors that attack.

catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/what-you-absolutely-need-to-understand-about-evolution

Grannymh, you say “the errors in a pleasing article like this link. It is the subtle errors that attack.” Please, will you point out the “subtle errors” in “What You Absolutely Need to Understand About Evolution”? I must have missed them.

 

[LogisticsBranch]

This website has good general information about evolution.
evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/home.php

The following article link below is a good reason why Humani Generis is needed in order to evaluate some misleading ideas in the article “What You Absolutely Need to Understand about Evolution”

The complete evolution theory is based on large random breeding polygenesis (polygenism) populations descending from the Homo/Pan split. No Way. The Adam and Eve theory is an original population of two.

Therefore, we have to be careful about sweet talking articles which proclaim the following.

From the article “What You Absolutely Need to Understand about Evolution”
catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/what-you-absolutely-need-to-understand-about-evolution

“…I think of evolution as fundamentally nothing more than atoms and molecules, organized into physical systems, doing their thing.”

“…we have nothing to fear in any scientific theory about how matter and energy evolve over time”

“The number-one thing to get straight about evolution and chance is to simply pray the Creed and mean it.”

Well, these are two of my very favorite websites:

1. evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/home.php
2. **The Pontifical Academy of Sciences **: EVOLUTION
   accademiascienze.va/content/accademia/en/search.html?q=Evolution

I also like the latest article:
Biological Extinction

How to Save the Natural World on Which We Depend
PAS-PASS Workshop, Casina Pio IV, 27 February-1 March 2017

Extinction is Forever: How To Avoid It

A study week was convened at the Casina Pio IV in the Vatican on February 27-March 1, 2017, by the Pontifical Academy of Sciences and the Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences to review what we know about biological extinction, its causes and the ways in which we might limit its extent. The participants concluded, based on comparisons with the fossil record, that the current rate of loss of species is approximately 1,000 times the historical rate, with perhaps a quarter of all species in danger of extinction now and as many as half of them may be gone by the end of the present century. Since we depend on living organisms for the functioning of our planet, our food, many of our medicines and other materials, waste absorption and the mediation of our climate, and for much of the beauty of the earth, these losses will inflict incalculable damage on our common prospects unless we control them. We have discovered and described less than one fifth of the species that are estimated to exist, and so we’re throwing away unknown potential and threatening the basic functioning of our planet.

Prior to the development of agriculture some 10,000 years ago, human beings lived as bands of a few dozen individuals for whom survival was an all-encompassing challenge. At that time, there were perhaps one million of us living in the entire world. As our numbers grew, however, we began to form the villages, towns, and cities from which our civilizations were developed. A third of the earth was gradually converted to agriculture. By two hundred years ago, we had grown to one billion people for the first time, and then to two billion in 1930 and shooting upward to the 7.4 billion of today. Since 1950, world GDP has grown 15 times while the world population has tripled. This five-fold increase in per capita income has brought huge gains to the contemporary human condition.
Besides threatening millions of species with extinction, this enormous increase in economic activity based on profit and on the use of fossil fuels is putting huge strains on the earth’s capacity to function sustainably. The most obvious associated signs include global climate change and the concomitant damages to the earth’s system that it brings in its wake, such as sea level rise as well as ocean acidification and anoxia, these feeding back on biological extinction directly.

. . .]
accademiascienze.va/content/accademia/en/events/2017/extinction/statement.html

I don’t really need nor do I agree much with the below article: “What You Absolutely Need to Understand about Evolution”
catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/what-you-absolutely-need-to-understand-about-evolution

 

[grannymh]

Grannymh, you say “the errors in a pleasing article like this link. It is the subtle errors that attack.” Please, will you point out the “subtle errors” in “What You Absolutely Need to Understand About Evolution”? I must have missed them.

The following can be considered as kind of official presentation of the “subtle errors”. Nonetheless, it needs to be translated into ordinary folk language. Therefore, please comment and ask questions.

The article “What You Absolutely Need to Understand About Evolution” by Stacy Trasancos, Catholic Answers Daily, May 31, 2017,contains an implied attack on Catholic teachings which support the Doctrine of Original Sin.

The Science of Human Evolution is based on large indiscriminate random breeding humanizing populations (polygenism, polygenesis) evolving from previous large indiscriminate random breeding humanizing populations following the Homo/Pan Split.

The Catholic Church teaches that mankind originated from a population of two, Adam and Eve. The Encyclical Humani Generis, Pope Pius XII, 1950, refers to a sin committed by an individual Adam who is directly created by God. Genesis 1: 27.

Practically speaking, the main difficulty with the Stacy Trasancos article is that important, science and Catholic, information is missing. This is misleading readers. Please note that the basic evolution theory automatically includes polygenesis which, by definition, demands a large originating population. Populations, not two individuals, form a new species.

It can be serious to ignore the teachings of Humani Generis, Paragraph 37. w2.vatican.va/content/pius-xii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xii_enc_12081950_humani-generis.html

 

[grannymh]

Well, these are two of my very favorite websites:

1. evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/home.php
2. **The Pontifical Academy of Sciences **: EVOLUTION
   accademiascienze.va/content/accademia/en/search.html?q=Evolution

I also like the latest article:
Biological Extinction

How to Save the Natural World on Which We Depend
PAS-PASS Workshop, Casina Pio IV, 27 February-1 March 2017

Extinction is Forever: How To Avoid It

A study week was convened at the Casina Pio IV in the Vatican on February 27-March 1, 2017, by the Pontifical Academy of Sciences and the Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences to review what we know about biological extinction, its causes and the ways in which we might limit its extent. The participants concluded, based on comparisons with the fossil record, that the current rate of loss of species is approximately 1,000 times the historical rate, with perhaps a quarter of all species in danger of extinction now and as many as half of them may be gone by the end of the present century. Since we depend on living organisms for the functioning of our planet, our food, many of our medicines and other materials, waste absorption and the mediation of our climate, and for much of the beauty of the earth, these losses will inflict incalculable damage on our common prospects unless we control them. We have discovered and described less than one fifth of the species that are estimated to exist, and so we’re throwing away unknown potential and threatening the basic functioning of our planet.

Prior to the development of agriculture some 10,000 years ago, human beings lived as bands of a few dozen individuals for whom survival was an all-encompassing challenge. At that time, there were perhaps one million of us living in the entire world. As our numbers grew, however, we began to form the villages, towns, and cities from which our civilizations were developed. A third of the earth was gradually converted to agriculture. By two hundred years ago, we had grown to one billion people for the first time, and then to two billion in 1930 and shooting upward to the 7.4 billion of today. Since 1950, world GDP has grown 15 times while the world population has tripled. This five-fold increase in per capita income has brought huge gains to the contemporary human condition.
Besides threatening millions of species with extinction, this enormous increase in economic activity based on profit and on the use of fossil fuels is putting huge strains on the earth’s capacity to function sustainably. The most obvious associated signs include global climate change and the concomitant damages to the earth’s system that it brings in its wake, such as sea level rise as well as ocean acidification and anoxia, these feeding back on biological extinction directly.

. . .]
accademiascienze.va/content/accademia/en/events/2017/extinction/statement.html

I don’t really need nor do I agree much with the below article: “What You Absolutely Need to Understand about Evolution”
catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/what-you-absolutely-need-to-understand-about-evolution

When it comes to the Science of Human Evolution, we need to be aware that it intersects with Catholic teachings on Original Sin as found in the first three informative chapters of Genesis. (post 239 above) Despite the attempts to devaluate those first basic Genesis chapters, the original truths flowing from the True Creation Story remain as part of the Deposit of Faith.
(CCC Glossary, Deposit of Faith, page 874)

 

[grannymh]

When it comes to the Science of Human Evolution, we need to be aware that it intersects with Catholic teachings on Original Sin as found in the first three informative chapters of Genesis. (post 239 above) Despite the attempts to devaluate those first basic Genesis chapters, the original truths flowing from the True Creation Story remain as part of the Deposit of Faith.
(CCC Glossary, Deposit of Faith, page 874)

The sad thing is that today, current Catholics have trouble connecting the dots to really big trouble. This is how the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition, explains the danger.

CCC 389, last sentence.
“The Church, which has the mind of Christ, knows very well that we cannot tamper with the revelation of original sin without undermining the mystery of Christ.”

 

[grannymh]

The sad thing is that today, current Catholics have trouble connecting the dots to really big trouble. This is how the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition, explains the danger.
CCC 389, last sentence.
“The Church, which has the mind of Christ, knows very well that we cannot tamper with the revelation of original sin without undermining the mystery of Christ.”

The really sad thing is that the author of this wonderful paragraph below has left out the fact that a particular scientific theory naturally includes tampering with Original Sin.

catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/what-you-absolutely-need-to-understand-about-evolution

“If we can profess that Jesus Christ, our Lord, was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary, was crucified, died, was buried, descended to the dead, rose again on the third day, ascended into heaven, is seated at the right hand of the Father, and will come again to judge the living and the dead, then* we have nothing to fear* in any scientific theory about how matter and energy evolve over time. If God can resurrect the body and grant life everlasting, then he surely can design the material of the universe to become all it is meant to be. To believe anything less of him is heresy.”

Unfortunately, the real “heresy” attacks the possibility of Original Sin. Please refer to CCC 389.

 

[grannymh]

The True Creation Story stands or falls depending on how Original Sin is examined.

Catholics, being a very large group of individuals, have different views about the reality of Original Sin. One view is that it is the “fly in the ointment” myemail.constantcontact.com/Richard-Rohr-s-Meditation–Original-Blessing.html?soid=1103098668616&aid=yAlpFk3eNPc

Then there is the question – Why can’t we find the words Original Sin in the New Testament?
myemail.constantcontact.com/Richard-Rohr-s-Meditation–Original-Blessing.html?soid=1103098668616&aid=yAlpFk3eNPc

One of the basic questions, individuals have to answer is – Can we both accept and understand true Catholic teachings on the subject Original Sin? That can be difficult as evinced in the links above.

 

[goout]

The True Creation Story stands or falls depending on how Original Sin is examined.

Catholics, being a very large group of individuals, have different views about the reality of Original Sin. One view is that it is the “fly in the ointment” myemail.constantcontact.com/Richard-Rohr-s-Meditation–Original-Blessing.html?soid=1103098668616&aid=yAlpFk3eNPc

Then there is the question – Why can’t we find the words Original Sin in the New Testament?
myemail.constantcontact.com/Richard-Rohr-s-Meditation–Original-Blessing.html?soid=1103098668616&aid=yAlpFk3eNPc

One of the basic questions, individuals have to answer is – Can we both accept and understand true Catholic teachings on the subject Original Sin? That can be difficult as evinced in the links above.

Bigger question might be “Can we accept and understand original sin without conflating it with scientific discovery?”
The discussion is all over the map conflating things, which is why I personally stopped participating.

 

[grannymh]

Bigger question might be “Can we accept and understand original sin without conflating it with scientific discovery?”
The discussion is all over the map conflating things, which is why I personally stopped participating.

I am not sure how to answer your question about conflating it with scientific discovery. In the time I have been here, I now notice a downward change in what some people actually know about Original Sin. On the other hand, there is the wrong assumption that all people know what is actually happening within the scientific world, including the accepted Science of Human Evolution.

From the way sections of Humani Generis are written, there had to be attacks on Original Sin in the 1940’s. To me, this indicates that current conflating Original Sin with recent scientific discoveries is not going to go away.

I would like to speak about Original Sin without the influence of science – knowing that I have to start with Genesis 1:1 and keep going through every fascinating verse in the first three major chapters of Genesis. Is that something which appeals to you?

 

[goout]

I am not sure how to answer your question about conflating it with scientific discovery. In the time I have been here, I now notice a downward change in what some people actually know about Original Sin. On the other hand, there is the wrong assumption that all people know what is actually happening within the scientific world, including the accepted Science of Human Evolution.

From the way sections of Humani Generis are written, there had to be attacks on Original Sin in the 1940’s. To me, this indicates that current conflating Original Sin with recent scientific discoveries is not going to go away.

I would like to speak about Original Sin without the influence of science – knowing that I have to start with Genesis 1:1 and keep going through every fascinating verse in the first three major chapters of Genesis. Is that something which appeals to you?

I don’t know if I’ve seen even one person attack the Church’s teaching on original sin in this thread.

 

[grannymh]

I don’t know if I’ve seen even one person attack the Church’s teaching on original sin in this thread.

I do not recall open attacks on this thread.

What is important in this thread is to maintain that the human species was founded by two people, Eve and Adam. The Science of Human Evolution says that the human species began as a large population evolving from a previous large population. The Original Sin means that it is the original one by the original human.

In a large humanizing population, how many individual humans committed the Original Sin? Which individual committed the Original which resulted in disaster? And yes, who cares? Which is the point.

I often think that God used common sense to have one identifiable human who had the power to shatter humanity’s relationship with Divinity.

If we start with understanding Genesis 1: 1, and keep going, we will find lots of answers. What say you!

 

[goout]

ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP961022.HTM

MESSAGE TO THE PONTIFICAL ACADEMY OF SCIENCES:
ON EVOLUTION
Pope John Paul II
Magisterium Is Concerned with Question of Evolution for It Involves Conception of Man
…
3. Before offering a few more specific reflections on the theme of the origin of life and evolution, I would remind you that the magisterium of the Church has already made some pronouncements on these matters, within her own proper sphere of competence. I will cite two such interventions here.

In his encyclical Humani Generis (1950), my predecessor Pius XII has already affirmed that there is no conflict between evolution and the doctrine of the faith regarding man and his vocation, provided that we do not lose sight of certain fixed points.

For my part, when I received the participants in the plenary assembly of your Academy on October 31, 1992, I used the occasion—and the example of Gallileo—to draw attention to the necessity of using a rigorous hermeneutical approach in seeking a concrete interpretation of the inspired texts. It is important to set proper limits to the understanding of Scripture, excluding any unseasonable interpretations which would make it mean something which it is not intended to mean. In order to mark out the limits of their own proper fields, theologians and those working on the exegesis of the Scripture need to be well informed regarding the results of the latest scientific research.
…
It is by virtue of his eternal soul that the whole person, including his body, possesses such great dignity. Pius XII underlined the essential point: if the origin of the human body comes through living matter which existed previously, the spiritual soul is created directly by God (“animas enim a Deo immediate creari catholica fides non retimere iubet”). (Humani Generis)

As a result, the theories of evolution which, because of the philosophies which inspire them, regard the spirit either as emerging from the forces of living matter, or as a simple epiphenomenon of that matter, are incompatible with the truth about man. They are therefore unable to serve as the basis for the dignity of the human person.

 

[grannymh]

ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP961022.HTM

In his encyclical Humani Generis (1950), my predecessor Pius XII has already affirmed that there is no conflict between evolution and the doctrine of the faith regarding man and his vocation, provided that we do not lose sight of certain fixed points.

**man and his vocation **Interesting. And what precisely is man’s vocation?

**certain fixed points **Interesting. And what precisely are the certain fixed points?

Check out Genesis 1:27 and Genesis 2:15-17.

 

[goout]

In his encyclical Humani Generis (1950), my predecessor Pius XII has already affirmed that there is no conflict between evolution and the doctrine of the faith regarding man and his vocation, provided that we do not lose sight of certain fixed points.

**man and his vocation **Interesting. And what precisely is man’s vocation?

**certain fixed points **Interesting. And what precisely are the certain fixed points?

Check out Genesis 1:27 and Genesis 2:15-17.

JP2 clearly lays out the fixed points.
Again:

Within the mystery of the risen Christ the full grandeur of this vocation is revealed to us. (Gaudium et Spes, 22) It is by virtue of his eternal soul that the whole person, including his body, possesses such great dignity. Pius XII underlined the essential point: if the origin of the human body comes through living matter which existed previously, the spiritual soul is created directly by God (“animas enim a Deo immediate creari catholica fides non retimere iubet”). (Humani Generis)

 

[grannymh]

JP2 clearly lays out the fixed points.
Again:
"Within the mystery of the risen Christ the full grandeur of this vocation is revealed to us. (Gaudium et Spes, 22) It is by virtue of his eternal soul that the whole person, including his body, possesses such great dignity. Pius XII underlined the essential point: if the origin of the human body comes through living matter which existed previously, the spiritual soul is created directly by God (“animas enim a Deo immediate creari catholica fides non retimere iubet”). (Humani Generis) "

Here is the background information, paragraph 36, Humani Generis
w2.vatican.va/content/pius-xii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xii_enc_12081950_humani-generis.html

“36. For these reasons the Teaching Authority of the Church does not forbid that, in conformity with the present state of human sciences and sacred theology, research and discussions, on the part of men experienced in both fields, take place with regard to the doctrine of evolution, in as far as it inquires into the origin of the human body as coming from pre-existent and living matter - for the Catholic faith obliges us to hold that souls are immediately created by God. However, this must be done in such a way that the reasons for both opinions, that is, those favorable and those unfavorable to evolution, be weighed and judged with the necessary seriousness, moderation and measure, and provided that all are prepared to submit to the judgment of the Church, to whom Christ has given the mission of interpreting authentically the Sacred Scriptures and of defending the dogmas of faith.[11] Some however, rashly transgress this liberty of discussion, when they act as if the origin of the human body from pre-existing and living matter were already completely certain and proved by the facts which have been discovered up to now and by reasoning on those facts, and as if there were nothing in the sources of divine revelation which demands the greatest moderation and caution in this question.”

 

[grannymh]

Here is the background information, paragraph 36, Humani Generis
w2.vatican.va/content/pius-xii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xii_enc_12081950_humani-generis.html
“36. For these reasons the Teaching Authority of the Church does not forbid that, in conformity with the present state of human sciences and sacred theology, research and discussions, on the part of men experienced in both fields, take place with regard to the doctrine of evolution, in as far as it inquires into the origin of the human body as coming from pre-existent and living matter - for the Catholic faith obliges us to hold that souls are immediately created by God. However, this must be done in such a way that the reasons for both opinions, that is, those favorable and those unfavorable to evolution, be weighed and judged with the necessary seriousness, moderation and measure, and provided that all are prepared to submit to the judgment of the Church, to whom Christ has given the mission of interpreting authentically the Sacred Scriptures and of defending the dogmas of faith.[11] Some however, rashly transgress this liberty of discussion, when they act as if the origin of the human body from pre-existing and living matter were already completely certain and proved by the facts which have been discovered up to now and by reasoning on those facts, and as if there were nothing in the sources of divine revelation which demands the greatest moderation and caution in this question.”

From paragraph 36, Humani Generis
w2.vatican.va/content/pius-xii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xii_enc_12081950_humani-generis.html
“provided that all are prepared to submit to the judgment of the Church, to whom Christ has given the mission of interpreting authentically the Sacred Scriptures and of defending the dogmas of faith.”

When there is an article catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/what-you-absolutely-need-to-understand-about-evolution which omits the basic rule of evolution theory --the new human species developed in a rather large population of “Adams” –
there is the reasonable possibility that one or two Adams or a hundred Adams chose to disobey the Creator God. And there is also the reasonable possibility that the majority of Adams chose God and obeyed His command. Interestingly, some current humans would have received the gift of bodily immortality, that is, they would not have to die. While there have been speculations about how Adam would enter heaven if he had not chosen the Original Sin, there is no doctrine on that question. (CCC 404)

The Catholic Church established the simple fact that there is only one Adam in the True Creation Story.

God used common sense when He created Adam as the first true human person.

 

[grannymh]

Here is a thought.

Maybe the author of “What You Absolutely Need to Understand About Evolution”
catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/what-you-absolutely-need-to-understand-about-evolution

was so excited, so amazed by the marvels in the material world that the real spiritual world of God would be addressed in a second article about the events in the exciting, amazing first three chapters of Genesis.