The True Creation Story

[simpleas]

You did mention that there is one Divine life that humans can share in. Perhaps the internet is denying Adam as a real person. When the internet substitutes “original blessings” for the truth of Original Sin, Adam has to be thrown into the trash.

My guess is that Adam is not acceptable as being real, so that is why one cannot recognize Adam’s State of Sanctifying Grace aka State of Original Holiness. CCC 375 refers “to share in …divine life.”

Those popular Notable Progressive Christians, who want to change the foundation of the Catholic Church, understand the need to get rid of the Catholic truths which flow from the first three fundamental chapters of Genesis. Rebuilding Christianity is not the solution. Notable Progressive Christians are not our saviors.

Link to Wikipedia list. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Christianity#Notable_Progressive_Christians

What I mean is, we can be in a state of sanctifying grace, but we will still suffer and die.

Adam and Eve being in their original state of holiness and justice would not suffer and die, as long as they remain in divine intimacy.

So our state regarding SG is not the same as theirs.
Adam and Eve were considered innocent, free from sin, while in their original state, not the same for us at all.

 

[grannymh]

What I mean is, we can be in a state of sanctifying grace, but we will still suffer and die.

Adam and Eve being in their original state of holiness and justice would not suffer and die, as long as they remain in divine intimacy.

So our state regarding SG is not the same as theirs.
Adam and Eve were considered innocent, free from sin, while in their original state, not the same for us at all.

What do you believe about the Catholic teaching of Original Sin?

Original Sin changed the State of Adam.

Humans are born in the Changed State of Adam.

The reason I suggested studying the Sacrament of Baptism is because the Sacrament of Baptism erases the Changed State of Adam and therefore brings back Adam’s Original State of Holiness now known as the State of Sanctifying Grace. This means that humans can share in the Divine Life of the Trinity which can be considered Adam’s friendship relationship with God. The slight change in name does not have the power to delete God’s power.

Yes, I know that today’s popular internet wants readers to ignore what changed the “Original Holiness with God” State. As I recall there was talk that a human could not really reject God. And then the popular internet, which often banks on Catholics being dumb, referred to Original Sin as the fly in the ointment which, by the way, would disappear as soon as Catholics gave up some of their annoying beliefs.

Come to think of it, there was additional talk about the ability of humans to tamper with the Original Sin. According to the sweet talking internet, Divine Revelation no longer needed the wisdom of the Holy Spirit in the major Ecumenical Catholic Church Councils. Pentecost could be ignored. That way Divine Revelation became a do-it-yourself event.

 

[simpleas]

Originally Posted by grannymh

The reason I suggested studying the Sacrament of Baptism is because the Sacrament of Baptism erases the Changed State of Adam and therefore brings back Adam’s Original State of Holiness now known as the State of Sanctifying Grace. This means that humans can share in the Divine Life of the Trinity which can be considered Adam’s friendship relationship with God. The slight change in name does not have the power to delete God’s power.

It doesn’t completely erase the changed state of Adam, like I pointed out, we still suffer and die while being in a state of SG.

It’s not a change of name though, it’s a change of the state of ones soul, but with the restriction on Adam’s original gifts.

I did look again at Baptism in the CCC, but could not find anything stating your belief about original states.

 

[grannymh]

It doesn’t completely erase the changed state of Adam, like I pointed out, we still suffer and die while being in a state of SG.

It’s not a change of name though, it’s a change of the state of ones soul, but with the restriction on Adam’s original gifts.

I did look again at Baptism in the CCC, but could not find anything stating your belief about original states.

Please see if CCC 405 works for you. Also, please consider that the changed state of Adam is totally different from the results of Original Sin.

My guess is that the internet attacks on the first three sacred chapters of Genesis has resulted in avoiding those informative chapters.

Perhaps we should look carefully at the actual chapters 1-3 in Genesis.
Do you think that would be a good idea?

 

[grannymh]

Genesis 1:1
“In the beginning, when God created the heavens and the earth”

The True Creation Story places God first above all the marvelous things humans have accomplished. The author of the first three sacred chapters of Genesis was not interested in metaphors. Genesis 1: 1 is flat out truth which everyone needs to recognize.

The simple truth is that when we recognize the Presence of the Divine Creator God, we recognize our own marvelous human nature. We do not see ourselves as part of the material world of animals and stars.

At first, the author is a bit overwhelmed as he observes the material world of animals and stars. How could all he saw be described in the science of his time which was limited to what he saw. Rain fell down, not up, in either the day or night. Rain and the beautiful rivers needed for farming had to come from the Creator of the heavens and the earth.

Then, the author said to himself. “I must be special because God gave the material world to me.”

 

[simpleas]

Genesis 1:1
“In the beginning, when God created the heavens and the earth”

The True Creation Story places God first above all the marvelous things humans have accomplished. The author of the first three sacred chapters of Genesis was not interested in metaphors. Genesis 1: 1 is flat out truth which everyone needs to recognize.

The simple truth is that when we recognize the Presence of the Divine Creator God, we recognize our own marvelous human nature. We do not see ourselves as part of the material world of animals and stars.

At first, the author is a bit overwhelmed as he observes the material world of animals and stars. How could all he saw be described in the science of his time which was limited to what he saw. Rain fell down, not up, in either the day or night. Rain and the beautiful rivers needed for farming had to come from the Creator of the heavens and the earth.

Then, the author said to himself. “I must be special because God gave the material world to me.”

One comment.

We are made from the earth.

Doesn’t that make us part of the material world of animals and stars?

 

[grannymh]

One comment.

We are made from the earth.

Doesn’t that make us part of the material world of animals and stars?

The earth is not a rational spiritual soul according to the real Catholic Church. It is our special, very own, spiritual, directly created by God, Soul which takes us out of the animal kingdom and separates us from the stars.

 

[simpleas]

The earth is not a rational spiritual soul according to the real Catholic Church. It is our special, very own, spiritual, directly created by God, Soul which takes us out of the animal kingdom and separates us from the stars.

Having a spiritual soul doesn’t cut us off from being made of the earth though. Genesis states that man was made from the soil of the earth and then God breathed life (a soul) into the man. While it makes us some what ‘different’ to other God created beings and vegetation, we are still very much part of this earth, the animals too were created from the earth according to genesis.
I don’t see why believing we came from the earth and thus are part of the earth is denying a creator, or a soul in a person.

From dust you came and unto dust you shall return…

 

[grannymh]

Having a spiritual soul doesn’t cut us off from being made of the earth though. Genesis states that man was made from the soil of the earth and then God breathed life (a soul) into the man. While it makes us some what ‘different’ to other God created beings and vegetation, we are still very much part of this earth, the animals too were created from the earth according to genesis.
I don’t see why believing we came from the earth and thus are part of the earth is denying a creator, or a soul in a person.

From dust you came and unto dust you shall return…

The earth is not a rational spiritual soul according to the real Catholic Church. It is our special, very own, spiritual, directly created by God, Soul which takes us out of the animal kingdom and separates us from the stars.

As we accept the fact that it is our rational spiritual Soul which essentially makes us different from other creatures, we accept the fact that there are two worlds, the material and spiritual.

Human nature is an unique unification of both the material world and the spiritual world. Our decomposing anatomy is of the material world and our immortal Soul belongs in the spiritual world. If you are familiar with CCC 364-366, you will read some interesting descriptions about form (soul) and matter (the material anatomy part of us).

In general, God blew into matter described as nostrils the breath of spiritual life and therefore formed man from matter. Genesis 2: 7. This description (form and matter) of God’s power is not in the verses Genesis 1:1 to Genesis 1:25. Still, God considered creation, including living creatures, as good.

One way to get a handle on the beginning verses, is to recognize the dramatic leap from Genesis 1: 25 to Genesis 1: 27.

 

[grannymh]

The Notable Progressive Christians on *Wikipedia’s *list are not always the best source of real Catholic teachings. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Christianity#Notable_Progressive_Christians

 

[simpleas]

Originally Posted by grannymh

Human nature is an unique unification of both the material world and the spiritual world. Our decomposing anatomy is of the material world.

…

Great so we agree, that’s that sorted

 

[grannymh]

Genesis 1: 27 from the True Creation Story
usccb.org/bible/genesis/1

“God created mankind in His image;
in the image of God He created them;
male and female* He created them.”
​

Without a doubt, Genesis 1: 27 is the most powerful verse in the first three amazing chapters in Genesis. Note that the Divine Creator God did not create a second almighty God. He carefully created two fully-complete first humans to be in His image. God gave each human the dignity of a person who can initiate and control one’s own actions. Each person, known as Adam and Eve, is rational and therefore like God; each is created with free will and is master over one’s own personal acts. (Refer to CCC 1730)

As we progress to the Original Sin, the above becomes very important when it comes to understanding Adam’s action of disobedience.

 

[grannymh]

Genesis 1: 27 from the True Creation Story
usccb.org/bible/genesis/1

“God created mankind in His image;
in the image of God He created them;
male and female* He created them.”
​

Without a doubt, Genesis 1: 27 is the most powerful verse in the first three amazing chapters in Genesis. Note that the Divine Creator God did not create a second almighty God. He carefully created two fully-complete first humans to be in His image. God gave each human the dignity of a person who can initiate and control one’s own actions. Each person, known as Adam and Eve, is rational and therefore like God; each is created with free will and is master over one’s own personal acts. (Refer to CCC 1730)

As we progress to the Original Sin, the above becomes very important when it comes to understanding Adam’s action of disobedience.

One of the sad things I have seen on the path to Original Sin is that very few people understand the role of the Divine Creator God.

 

[grannymh]

Welcome Gentle Readers, CAF Members and Guests

When the thread “**Is Genesis 2: 15-17 an explanation of Original Sin?” **was in spitting distance of 1,000 posts, I found myself still looking for additional solid information about the real stories of original obedience and original disobedience.

Here is the dilemma. Ever since the talented author of the beginning three chapters of Genesis looked up at the sky and declared “Wow, that is amazing! I have to write about that.” – Others asked questions. Questions not only about the stars, but also about themselves. For example. Why are we humans, who are not as strong as many animals, so different that we dominate all other creatures? Why do we humans have a longing, deep in our hearts, for something beyond our material world?

In other words, Original Sin still needs explanation. This time, we need to explore the beginning of human history and the depth of Creation. In other words, we are still going to find hundreds of ways to unfold creation and when we are dissatisfied with that, we can tamper here and there.

In other words, we are in a maze and we need the Catholic Church which has a firm foundation of basic truths. We absolutely need The True Creation Story.

Note: This thread is dedicated to the Holy Spirit.

Before we get to the Big Big Change in website stuff which is the end of August – and CAF as we currently know it will walk the plank --all this technical stuff is beyond me --I am not too sure what it will do – I propose a challenge.

What are the verses in the first three sacred chapters of Genesis which relate to true Catholic teachings?

The first contribution is that Catholicism teaches that God exists. Genesis 1:1
If anyone agrees, one can add stuff. This is day 1. Last chance!

 

[grannymh]

Before we get to the Big Big Change in website stuff which is the end of August – and CAF as we currently know it will walk the plank --all this technical stuff is beyond me --I am not too sure what it will do – I propose a challenge.

What are the verses in the first three sacred chapters of Genesis which relate to true Catholic teachings?

The first contribution is that Catholicism teaches that God exists. Genesis 1:1
If anyone agrees, one can add stuff. This is day 1. Last chance!

I am only saying the truth. The next verses, Genesis 1: 2-25 must be the most debated on planet earth. Funny how God is always referred to as if He had something to do with our planet earth. I especially appreciate Genesis 1: 25. “God saw how good it was.” Yes, the Catholic Church teaches – “I believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible.” (Creed professed at Sunday Holy Sacrifice of the Mass)

 

[grannymh]

Genesis 1: 26
usccb.org/bible/genesis/1
**26 **
Then God said: Let us make* human beings in our image, after our likeness. Let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, the tame animals, all the wild animals, and all the creatures that crawl on the earth.

The first words out of the reader’s mouth are usually “Wow! Something really big is coming down the road.” Or the reader will ask “How did the talented author know this?”

My personal answer is that the author knew that God loved us so much that He wanted us to be the pinnacle of His creation. Yes, I know that we wonder why didn’t God make everyone perfectly good. But, if everyone was perfectly good like God, then there is the situation that there cannot be two equally superior perfectly good Gods at the same time.

Our loving God does not want to lose one person. Thus, he created us as a spiritual creature who could maintain a loving relationship with our Creator God by living in free submission to Him. God gave us the unique gift of intellective free will. (CCC 396)
**CCC 1730 **
God created man a rational being, conferring on him the dignity of a person who can initiate and control his own actions. “God willed that man should be ‘left in the hand of his own counsel,’ so that he might of his own accord seek his Creator and freely attain his full and blessed perfection by cleaving to him.”

In small print.
Man is rational and therefore like God; he is created with free will and is master over his acts.
​

Genesis 1: 26 clearly separates us from the animal kingdom. It looks forward to our golden opportunity to live in joy eternal.

God did not create good and bad people. He created human nature so that all people could make their own personal choice regarding the need to live in submission (obedience) to the only one true God. God did not abandon us after Original Sin.
John 3: 16-17.

 

[grannymh]

Genesis 1: 27
usccb.org/bible/genesis/1
27
God created mankind in His image;
in the image of God He created them;
male and female* He created them.

It is a dollar to a donut, that if someone asks about the Catholic Church, the answer will be related in some manner to Genesis 1: 27

 

[grannymh]

Genesis 1: 28-31
usccb.org/bible/genesis/1
28
God blessed them and God said to them: Be fertile and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it.* Have dominion over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, and all the living things that crawl on the earth.m
29
God also said: See, I give you every seed-bearing plant on all the earth and every tree that has seed-bearing fruit on it to be your food;
30
and to all the wild animals, all the birds of the air, and all the living creatures that crawl on the earth, I give all the green plants for food. And so it happened.
31
God looked at everything he had made, and found it very good. Evening came, and morning followed—the sixth day.

This passage should make us smile.

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Each human person is worthy of profound respect.

 

[grannymh]

Genesis 2: 1-4
usccb.org/bible/genesis/2
1
Thus the heavens and the earth and all their array were completed.a
2
On the seventh day God completed the work he had been doing; he rested on the seventh day from all the work he had undertaken.
3
God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work he had done in creation.
4
This is the story* of the heavens and the earth at their creation. When the LORD God made the earth and the heavens—

When we read verse 2, we think about the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass on Sunday. Maybe we should wonder what the author was thinking.

These are my personal thoughts. There is no need to believe them.

The author is a devout member of the Hebrew Nation. He worshiped the One Divine Creator. Maybe the author looked at the vast creation around him as he worshiped the One Powerful God and wondered how can that be expressed. Perhaps the seventh day is what made all creation holy. Maybe God, on the seventh day, looked at the material creation and then in His power, even though it was rested, the true human species will be created in Genesis 2: 7.

My point is that it is a good idea for us to rest in God’s power. We do not have to be theologians to praise God for all He has created, including our own human species. A “thank you” on whatever day we choose to be a Sunday, is major. And choosing the real Sunday is major because we receive Jesus, truly present in Holy Communion. Choosing the real Sunday Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is major because it brings all of us together. We are the Mystical Body of Christ.

 

[grannymh]

I just checked. The lecture hall has 13,185 views.

I respect our guests who may not have posting privileges. And I respond to current issues which may interest them. Each guest is important to me. In addition, lurkers are important to me.

I have had to read a lot of posts in order for me to have 20,000 posts. Thus, I have a good idea what is happening on the sidelines. Naturally, I may miss a significant issue. My sincere apology to guests and lurkers.

I am not offended by your post.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Each human person is worthy of profound respect.