The Truth About God

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Hmm… not quite. God the Son is “eternally begotten from the Father” – He does not “become Son” only when He became incarnate through the Virgin Mary. The Athanasian Creed is very clear about this.

Flesh, therefore, is not the only divider – bacause “the Word [the Son] was with God in the beginning”. “The Word” is God’s knowledge of Himself – and this is the Son, whom He loves wholly, this love is returned to the Father; this mutual love is the Holy Spirit.

The Son is the Son because He is begotten from the Father, not because he was incarnated to the world.
 
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mrS4ntA:
Again, you are approaching the mystery of Holy Trinity – the identity of God himself from your limited human perspective!

why call “Father” if He doesn’t have a “Son”, distinct and separate from Him? the name “Father”, “Son” only make sense in their relations to each other – each is distinct and separate!

The Athanasian Creed summarises the nature of the Trinity revealed to us, it’s a “mystery” and a “mystery” is not supposed to be fully comprehended. We must receive it compelled by faith!

Like I said, the nature of Holy Trinity is a paradox, and paradoxes are everywhere in Christian doctrines (e.g. Christ’s dual nature – fully human and fully divine).
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Is not the soul as a father to the body? Is not the body a kind of offspring from the soul?

Harry
 
No, it proves that the 2nd aspect of the Holy Trinity became Incarnate. Jesus Christ is not God the Father; He is God the Son.

Yes, He was. The 2nd aspect of the Holy Trinity, the Word (Jesus Christ), was made flesh.

Have a great day,
Judy
**It shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for Him that He may save us: THIS IS JEHOVAH we have waited for Him, we will rejoice and be glad in His salvation (Isa.25:9). **
**
"that day," “in that day,” and “in that time;” in which, by “day,” and “time,” is meant Jehovah God’s advent.

Behold, the day of Jehovah cometh. His feet shall stand in that day upon the Mount of Olives. In that day there shall not be light and brightness; but it shall be one day which shall be known unto Jehovah; not day, nor night, at evening time there shall be light. In that day living waters shall go out from Jerusalem.In that day there shall be one Jehovah, and His name one. In that day there shall be a great tumult from Jehovah. In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, Holiness unto Jehovah. In that day there shall be no more a Canaanite in the house of Jehovah (Zech.14:1,4, 6-9, 13,20-21).

**If Jehovah God didn’t become a Man, than why does it say in Zech that His feet shall stand in that day upon the Mount of Olives? Does a human form have feet? **

Harry
**
 
In that day Jehovah shall visit with His sword. In that day ye shall answer to it, A vineyard of unmixed wine (27:1, 2,12,13).Jesus said,“I come not to bring peace,but a sword.” The word sword here means truth.

I will search for My flock in the day that he shall be in the midst of his flock; and I will deliver them out of all places whither they have been scattered, in the day of cloud and of thick darkness (Ezek. 34:11-12).

The Shepherd in the OT is also the Shepherd of the NT.There is only one Divine Shepherd.

In the day that I cleanse you from all your iniquities (Ezek. 36:33).

Jehovah their God shall serve them in that day, as the flock of His people (Zech. 9:16).

Mine anger was kindled against the shepherds, and I will visit upon the he-goats.(Zech. 10:3). This means Priests and Bishops who lead people away with false ideas.

Harry
 
For a better understanding of the Holy Trinity (but not complete, because as a mystery God will reveal it to us in due time) I suggest you read Theology and Sanity by Frank Sheed.
Is not the soul as a father to the body? Is not the body a kind of offspring from the soul?
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No the soul and body do not share this relationship. Your body does not come from your soul. Your body is matter in which God infuses your soul to at the time of conception. You are trying to use your imagination, which only gets in the way. During our time on earth we are bound by space and time. God is not limited to such, because he exists outside them. The things God has revealed to mankind have been in a progression. He has to let us come to understand at our own pace. Otherwise, if he revealed everything to us at once we would die from joy.

In Christ,
Hans
 
It’s important enough to repeat:

“The form ‘Jehovah’ is of late medieval origin; it is a combination of the consonants of the Divine Name and the vowels attached to it by the Masoretes, but belonging to an entirely different word. The sound of Y is represented by J and the sound of W by V, as in Latin. . . **The word Jehovah does not accurately represent any form of the Name ever used in Hebrew.” **

Written Ancient Hebrew used no vowels, only consonants. God called Himself YHVH (I AM). It is properly pronounced YAHWEH – not Jehovah.

God doesn’t need a name to distinguish Him from other gods – there is only One God.

The word “Jehovah” was a mistake originally made by the Masoretes that has been perpetuated in English.

This is from the scholars who translated the RSV.
 
As an interesting side note on something of a similar nature… the ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics also did not include the vowels. Consequently the pronunciations of some of the ancient Pharoes names are unknown. Without the Copts, Greeks and other civilizations coming in and writing about the culture we might never had known how any of their names were to be pronounced. The Egyptians put very special emphasis on names and the power they contained.

I once watched a show where a man was pointing out a cartouche saying that it spoke of Moses. Well, I started laughing… the hieroglyphics that he was referencing did indeed have the name “Mose” or “Moses” in it but it was not talking about the biblical “Moses.”

“Mose” or “Moses” was a term of endearment given to children and a shortened nickname for anyone that had the hieroglyph for “Mose” in their name. So Tutmose could very well have been called “Mose” or “Moses” by those people closest to him. This makes me wonder if the Biblical Moses might have actually had a longer name that was never written, but considering his extraordinary infancy background I would not be surprised if they chose to simply call him “Moses.”

I found this link that goes into further detail on the subject.

edofolks.com/html/pub119.htm
 
This whole argument is so very sad. This is the translation pit that people can fall into who attempt to interpret the Scriptures for themselves, apart from the guidance of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church that was founded by Christ for the salvation of the world and was instructed by His Apostles. One can read doctrines INTO the Scriptures (eisogesis) as opposed to getting the correct interpretation OUT OF the Scriptures (exegesis).

The “plain” statements of Scripture can be confused with a particular theology that has been developed from those statements (as is the case with Emanuel Swedenborg and many others). Every theological system is derived from and supported by references to various Scriptures, but that doesn’t mean that the theological system developed from those Scriptures is the correct one. Every heresy has its “proof texts” from the Scriptures. The Scriptures can have only one meaning – and that is the specific meaning the sacred writers intended to convey at the time they wrote them.

The Bible is a collection of writings – written by different people at different times in different locations for different reasons and for different audiences. It is often difficult to understand. The OT was written over a period of about 1,000 years. The NT was written over a period of 50 - 100 years.

One must know what meaning the writer INTENDED to have the reader understand by his words. The biblical writings are enmeshed in a “tradition of understanding” which one ignores at his own doctrinal and spiritual peril.

Swedenborg (and others) first developed a theological construct, and then went back and read that construct into the Biblical passages, believing that the passages themselves teach the already developed construct, rather than understanding that it is the construct which forms and informs their understanding of the passage. It is the mistake of seeing what we believe we are going to see.

The Church was taught by the Apostles and in turn teaches what the Apostles taught – before, during, and after the time the New Testament was being written. The Church is the rightful interpreter of the Scriptures, in her role as the New Israel, teaching the New Covenant in Christ’s blood (Luke 22:20, Romans 11:26, James 1:l, Galatians 6:16).

Emanuel Swedenborg (and others!) was sadly mistaken about the nature of God, and many other things as well.

The Bible didn’t just fall out of heaven. God entrusted it to the Catholic Church to write, protect, canonize, and interpret.

JMJ Jay
 
Correction: I failed to differentiate at the end of my last past that the Church wrote only the NT – not the OT. She inherited the OT (all 46 books, not 39) from Jesus and the Apostles, and that is the collection of writings she canonized. She selected 27 writings from among those she herself produced, canonized them, and those became the NT.

Sed libera nos a malo, Jay
 
**If Jehovah God didn’t become a Man, than why does it say in Zech that His feet shall stand in that day upon the Mount of Olives? **
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**
Harry

It doesn’t. It says the Lord’s feet. The Lord has always been understood and interpreted to mean Jesus Christ. Those religions which write bibles that reflect their own erroneous beliefs insert the word “Jehovah” in place of the words “the Lord” and then try to evangelize the rest of us with their flawed theology.

Have a great day,
Judy
**
 
** THE INTERACTION OF THE SOUL AND THE BODY

There are three opinions and traditions, which are hypotheses, concerning the Interaction of the Soul and Body, or the operation of the one upon the other, and of the one together with the other: the first is called Physical Influx, the second Spiritual Influx, and the third Pre-established Harmony.

The FIRST, which is called PHYSICAL INFLUX, arises from the appearances of the senses, and the fallacies thence derived. For it appears as if the objects of sight, which affect the eyes, flow into the thought and produce it; in like manner speech, which affects the ears, appears to flow into the mind, and to produce ideas there; and it is similar with respect to the senses of smell, taste, and touch. Since the organs of these senses first receive the impressions that flow into them from the world, and the mind appears to think, and also to will, according as these organs are affected, therefore, the ancient philosophers and schoolmen believed that influx was derived from them into the soul, and hence adopted the hypothesis of Physical or Natural Influx.

[2] The SECOND hypothesis, which is called SPIRITUAL, and by some OCCASIONAL INFLUX, originates in order and its laws. For the soul is a spiritual substance, and therefore purer, prior, and interior; but the body is material, and therefore grosser, posterior, and exterior; and it is according to order that the purer should flow into the grosser, the prior into the posterior, and the interior into the exterior, thus what is spiritual into what is material, and not the contrary. Consequently, it is according to order for the thinking mind to flow into the sight according to the state induced on the eyes by the objects before them, which state that mind also disposes at its pleasure; and likewise for the perceptive mind to flow into the hearing, according to the state induced upon the ears by speech.

The THIRD hypothesis, which is called PRE-ESTABLISHED HARMONY, arises from the appearances and fallacies of the reasoning faculty; since the mind, in the very act of operating, acts together with and at the same time as the body. Still, every operation is first successive and afterwards simultaneous, and successive operation is Influx, and simultaneous operation is Harmony; as, for instance, when the mind thinks and afterwards speaks, or when it wills and afterwards acts: hence it is a fallacy of the reasoning faculty to establish that which is simultaneous, and to exclude that which is successive.

No fourth opinion concerning the Interaction of the Soul and the Body can be framed in addition to these three; for either the soul must operate upon the body, or the body upon the soul, or both uninterruptedly at the same time.

** Harry
 
Harry, you used the correct word: OPINION.

That’s precisely what your beliefs are – Emanuel Swedenborg’s opinions.

His opinions have no more validity the opinions of thousands of others who have started their own organizations in opposition to the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church founded by Jesus Christ and taught by His Apostles.

God bless and Mary keep, Jay
 
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Katholikos:
Harry, you used the correct word: OPINION.

That’s precisely what your beliefs are – Emanuel Swedenborg’s opinions.

His opinions have no more validity the opinions of thousands of others who have started their own organizations in opposition to the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church founded by Jesus Christ and taught by His Apostles.

God bless and Mary keep, Jay
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There are paradoxes in the Creed of Athanasius, and consequently the opinions of the multitudes are various.To the understanding of which the understanding must be constantly kept under faith, blind faith,that is. But from the heavenly doctrine, according to which that paradox is to be explained, not anything of the understanding is to be kept under faith.

Harry
 
juno24 said:
**

**It doesn’t. It says the Lord’s feet. The Lord has always been understood and interpreted to mean Jesus Christ. Those religions which write bibles that reflect their own erroneous beliefs insert the word “Jehovah” in place of the words “the Lord” and then try to evangelize the rest of us with their flawed theology. ****

Have a great day,
Judy
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That is according to the Catholic Bible.They had added their own words to suit their needs.They replace the word “He” in Genesis 3:15,and put the word she in its place.
**
Genesis 3:15. And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; He,not she shall trample upon thy head, and thou shalt bruise His heel.This is the first prophecy of the Jehovah God’s advent into the world. The word “woman” means church.This does not concern the virgin Mary.

Many Catholics don’t know that the name Jehovah and Lord are of the same God. In the OT the word Jehovah is used,and in the NT the name Lord,but still it is the same God.

** God had many name and they all means something. The name God itself means truth,as well as Elohim,but both have different meanings.The word God is in Genesis,because is concerns truth. Genesis concerns regeneration, palingenesis,born again, rebirth from death. Man is regenerated by truth of the Word.

The word Jehovah means Divine Good and word God means Divine Truth. These two are His Divine Essence.
That the Lord as to His Human is the name of the Father, appears in these places:
Father, glorify Thy name (John 12:28).

Hallowed be Thy name, Thy kingdom come (Matt. 6:9; also Exod. 23:20-21; Jer. 23:6; Micah 5:4).

That name, applied to others, signifies the quality of worship, appears in the following passages:

The shepherd of the sheep calleth his own sheep by their name (John 10:3).

Thou hast a few names in Sardis (Rev. 3:4).

I will write upon him the name of My God, and the name of the city of my God, the New Jerusalem, and My new name (Rev. 3:12

By the names of persons in the Word, by “Judah” is not meant Judah, nor by “David,” David. By “Judah,” the Lord as to the Divine Good, and by “David,” the Lord as to the Divine Truth.

Harry
 
**Anyone who knows nothing of the spiritual sense of the Word cannot help thinking that it is merely these things which are intended. For he is unaware that garden, grove and wood means wisdom, intelligence and knowledge.That olive, vine, cedar, poplar and oak mean the good and truth of the church in their celestial, spiritual, rational, natural and sensual forms. **
**Nor does he know that lamb, sheep, goat, calf and ox mean innocence, charity and natural affection.That mountains, hills and valleys mean the highest, lower and lowest elements in the church. Nor does he know that Egypt means factual knowledge, Assyria the faculty of reason, Edom the natural level, Moab the adulteration of good, the Children of Ammon the adulteration of truth, the Philistines faith without charity and good works, Tyre and Sidon the knowledge of good and of truth, Gog external worship without any internal. **

**In general, Jacob in the Word means the natural church, Israel the spiritual church, Judah the celestial church. When one knows all these meanings, it is possible to reflect that the Word speaks only of heavenly matters, and those worldly matters are merely the underlying supports for the others. Let us take an example from the Word to illustrate this point too. **

****We read in Isaiah: **

**On that day there shall be a highway from Egypt to Assyria, so that Assyria may come to Egypt and Egypt to Assyria, and the Egyptians may serve with Assyria. On that day Israel shall be a third with Egypt and Assyria, a blessing in the midst of the earth; and Jehovah Zebaoth shall bless them, saying, Blessed is Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel my inheritance. Isa. 19:23-25. **

****In the spiritual sense this passage means that at the time of the Lord’s coming factual knowledge, the faculty of reason and the spiritual will make one; and factual knowledge will then serve the faculty of reason and both of these will serve the spiritual. For, as said before, 1. Egypt means factual knowledge, 2. Assyria the faculty of reason and 3.Israel the spiritual. The twice repeated mention of the day refers to the Lord’s first and second comings. ****
Harry

**
 
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Katholikos:
http://newchurch.newearth.org/whatisnc.php

What is the New Church?

In a specific sense, this church is a community of people, also known as “Swedenborgians,” who embrace some new teachings given through the theological writings of Emanuel Swedenborg (1688-1772), recognizing these teachings as a gift from God and a key to a happy life both here and hereafter.​

Our friend Harry has traded the teachings of Jesus Christ (he says he is a former Catholic) for the teachings of Emanuel Swedenborg.

JMJ Jay
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Now that you have the New Church’s web sites, start studying,and put down your church’s catechism.

Harry
 
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SpiritualSon:
That is according to the Catholic Bible.They had added their own words to suit their needs.They replace the word “He” in Genesis 3:15,and put the word she in its place.
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We have changed it from which Bible? Pray tell, because as you should know, it was indeed the Catholic Church to whom the Sacred Scripture was given. If your ignorance of history and theology weren’t so sad it would be laughable. If you would rather depend upon the creative writing of a man who lived just a few centuries ago rather than Jesus Christ Himself, go right ahead.

Have a nice day,
Judy
 
The doctrine of three Divine persons, both in past ages and at the present day, has sprung solely from a failure to understand the Divine Esse.
**The unity of God is inmostly inscribed on the mind of every man, since it lies at the center of all that flows from God into the soul of man, and yet it has not descended into the human understanding, for the reason that the knowledges by which man must ascend to meet God have been lacking. **

**For everyone must prepare the way for God, that is, must prepare himself for reception; and this is done by means of knowledges. **

**The knowledges that have been lacking, and that enable the understanding to penetrate far enough to see that God is one, and that more than one Divine Esse,such as have a son of God before creation is impossible. **

**It is said that the man rises; but the truth is that he is raised up by God. For in acquiring knowledges for himself man exercises his freedom of choice. **

**But as he acquires for himself knowledges from the Word by means of his understanding he prepares the way by which God comes down and raises him up. **

**The knowledges by means of which the human understanding rises, God holding it in His hand and leading it, may be likened to the steps of the ladder seen by Jacob in a dream, which was set upon the earth with the top of it reaching to heaven, by which the angels ascended while Jehovah stood above it (Gen. 28:12, 13). **

**The Catholic and Protestant Church will remain at the bottom of this ladder that represents the understanding.God does not set limits on our understanding, the church does that. **

As long as you continue to approach God the wrong way,like you been doing since the Council of Nicea,when your church came up with the doctrine of three Divine persons,you will remain at the bottom of this ladder.Start climbing.

Harry
 
SpiritualSon said:
****The Catholic and Protestant Church will remain at the bottom of this ladder that represents the understanding.God does not set limits on our understanding, the church does that. ****

As long as you continue to approach God the wrong way,like you been doing since the Council of Nicea,when your church came up with the doctrine of three Divine persons,you will remain at the bottom of this ladder.Start climbing.

This isn’t golf, where the lowest score wins. The One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church would be at the top of the “ladder”, since she has all the truth that Jesus Christ gave to the apostles, who in turn passed it along to their successors, the bishops. The apostles were protected by the Holy Spirit from teaching anything contrary to the truth. This protection has applied to their successors, speaking in unison, as well.

I guess we have come full circle again, Spiritual Son, to the question asked by Magnanimity…By what authority to you claim such things?

Marana tha,
Hans
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