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ralphinal
Guest
I do not understand the hypostatic union, so it does not exist. I do not understand the Trinity, so it does not exist. I do not understand women, so they do not exist. I hope all of you men enjoy this post.
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SpiritualSon
Guest
Hans A.:
**“The horse,” which was white, represents and signifies the understanding of the Word as to its interiors; that this is the signification of “a white horse,” will be shown presently. That “He that sat upon him” is the Lord as to the Word, thus the Word, is manifest, for it is said, “His name is called the Word of God;” who, from good, is called “faithful and judging in justice;” and from truth, is called “true, and who maketh war in justice;” for the Lord Himself is justice. “His eyes, as a flame of fire,” signify the Divine truth, from the Divine good of His Divine love. “The many diadems upon His head,” signify all the goods and truths of faith. “Having a name written that no one knew but He Himself,” signifies that the quality of the Word in the internal sense is seen by no one but Himself, and those to whom He reveals it. “Clothed in a vesture dipped in blood,” signifies the Word in the letter, to which violence has been offered. “The armies in the heavens which followed Him upon white horses,” signify those who are in the understanding of the Word as to its interiors. “Clothed in fine linen, white and clean,” signify the same persons in truth from good. “Upon His vesture and upon his thigh a name written” signifies truth and good, and their quality.
**
You are getting the wrong idea of Jacob’s ladder. What authority I have is from God,because I am beginning to understand the Word in correspondences. The Lord is teaching me. I understand what the white horse means in Revelation.
**“The horse,” which was white, represents and signifies the understanding of the Word as to its interiors; that this is the signification of “a white horse,” will be shown presently. That “He that sat upon him” is the Lord as to the Word, thus the Word, is manifest, for it is said, “His name is called the Word of God;” who, from good, is called “faithful and judging in justice;” and from truth, is called “true, and who maketh war in justice;” for the Lord Himself is justice. “His eyes, as a flame of fire,” signify the Divine truth, from the Divine good of His Divine love. “The many diadems upon His head,” signify all the goods and truths of faith. “Having a name written that no one knew but He Himself,” signifies that the quality of the Word in the internal sense is seen by no one but Himself, and those to whom He reveals it. “Clothed in a vesture dipped in blood,” signifies the Word in the letter, to which violence has been offered. “The armies in the heavens which followed Him upon white horses,” signify those who are in the understanding of the Word as to its interiors. “Clothed in fine linen, white and clean,” signify the same persons in truth from good. “Upon His vesture and upon his thigh a name written” signifies truth and good, and their quality.
**
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Hans_A
Guest
Now we are getting at the heart of the matter. Here is a quote from scripture that you should read.
These “men” are the apostles along with their successors, the bishops, who make up the magesterium of the Church.
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SpiritualSon
Guest
Rev.6
Verse 2. “And I saw, and behold, a white horse,” signifies the understanding of truth and good from the Word with these; “And he that sat upon him had a bow,” signifies that they had the doctrine of truth and good from the Word, from which they fought against the falsities and evils which are from hell. “And a crown was given unto him,” signifies their badge of combat. “And he went forth conquering, and to conquer,” signifies victory over evils and falsities to eternity.
Verse 4. “And there went out another horse that was red,” signifies the understanding of the Word destroyed as to good, and thence as to life, with these “And it was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth,” signifies the taking away of charity, spiritual security, and internal rest. “And that they should kill one another,” signifies intestine hatreds, infestations from the hells, and internal unrest. “And there was given unto him a great sword,” signifies the destruction of truth by falsities of evil.
Verse 5. “And when He had opened the third seal, I heard the third animal saying, Come and look,” signifies the same here as above. “And I saw, and behold, a black horse,” signifies the understanding of the Word destroyed with these as to truth, and thus as to doctrine. “And he that sat upon him had a balance in his hand,” signifies the estimation of good and truth, what it was with these.
Harry
Verse 2. “And I saw, and behold, a white horse,” signifies the understanding of truth and good from the Word with these; “And he that sat upon him had a bow,” signifies that they had the doctrine of truth and good from the Word, from which they fought against the falsities and evils which are from hell. “And a crown was given unto him,” signifies their badge of combat. “And he went forth conquering, and to conquer,” signifies victory over evils and falsities to eternity.
Verse 4. “And there went out another horse that was red,” signifies the understanding of the Word destroyed as to good, and thence as to life, with these “And it was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth,” signifies the taking away of charity, spiritual security, and internal rest. “And that they should kill one another,” signifies intestine hatreds, infestations from the hells, and internal unrest. “And there was given unto him a great sword,” signifies the destruction of truth by falsities of evil.
Verse 5. “And when He had opened the third seal, I heard the third animal saying, Come and look,” signifies the same here as above. “And I saw, and behold, a black horse,” signifies the understanding of the Word destroyed with these as to truth, and thus as to doctrine. “And he that sat upon him had a balance in his hand,” signifies the estimation of good and truth, what it was with these.
Harry
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SwissGuard
Guest
Isn’t it possible that you are mistaken about what the white horse means?
What you “understand” is through your interpretation alone, and no one else is required to believe it or agree with it. This is especially true if it goes against the teachings of the Church, founded by Christ, that existed long before the Bible was even completed…and much longer still before you were around to interpret it in your own way.
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Ghosty
Guest
I would just like to point out that the word Elohim is itself a plural, not a singular. Similar words we hear in English from Hebrew today are Hasidim and Sephardim, two groups of Jews. The singular form of Hasidim is Hasid, and the singular for Elohim is eloha, IIRC. In fact, I believe that the word Allah comes from Eloha, but I could be way off.
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SpiritualSon
Guest
What you “understand” is through your interpretation alone, and no one else is required to believe it or agree with it. This is especially true if it goes against the teachings of the Church, founded by Christ, that existed long before the Bible was even completed…and much longer still before you were around to interpret it in your own way.Swedenborg was the first to be taught by the Lord, but his learning was faster than mine, that’s because he had to wite, by order of the Lord.
The first subject I was taught to understand was the Divine Trinity.I learned from the writings that the Trinity is the first subject taught to men when they enter the spiritual world if they had not fill their minds with evil. Only the good are taught .
The doctrine of a man’s church doesn’t condamn him, the way he lived his life does. I am being taught to understand in this world.
When I die I will be able to enter heaven, because I understand the Trinity, but you if were good in this world will learn in the other.You will enter heaven after you come to an understanding of the Holy Trinity.
All those of the clerical order who have cherished any right idea of the Lord our Savior,which means who were good at heart, when they enter the spiritual world (which generally takes place on the third day after death), receive instruction at first about the Divine Trinity, and particularly about the Holy Spirit, that it is not a God by itself, but that the Divine operation proceeding from the one and omnipresent God is what is meant in the Word by the Holy Spirit.
They are particularly instructed about this, because very many enthusiasts after death fall into the insane phantasy that they themselves are the Holy Spirit.
Also because many belonging to the church who had believed while in the world that the Holy Spirit spoke through them, terrify others with the words of the Lord in Matthew (12:31, 32), claiming that to speak against what the Holy Spirit has inspired into them is the unpardonable sin.
Those who after instruction relinquish the belief that the Holy Spirit is a God by itself are then taught that the unity of God is not divided into three persons, each one of whom is singly God and Lord, according to the Athanasian creed, but that the Divine Trinity is in the Lord the Savior Jesus Christ, like the soul, the body, and the proceeding energy in every man.
After this they are prepared for receiving the faith of the new heaven; and when so prepared a way is opened for them to a society in heaven where a like faith prevails, and an abode is given them among brethren, with whom they are to live in blessedness to eternity.
Harry
The first subject I was taught to understand was the Divine Trinity.I learned from the writings that the Trinity is the first subject taught to men when they enter the spiritual world if they had not fill their minds with evil. Only the good are taught .
The doctrine of a man’s church doesn’t condamn him, the way he lived his life does. I am being taught to understand in this world.
When I die I will be able to enter heaven, because I understand the Trinity, but you if were good in this world will learn in the other.You will enter heaven after you come to an understanding of the Holy Trinity.
All those of the clerical order who have cherished any right idea of the Lord our Savior,which means who were good at heart, when they enter the spiritual world (which generally takes place on the third day after death), receive instruction at first about the Divine Trinity, and particularly about the Holy Spirit, that it is not a God by itself, but that the Divine operation proceeding from the one and omnipresent God is what is meant in the Word by the Holy Spirit.
They are particularly instructed about this, because very many enthusiasts after death fall into the insane phantasy that they themselves are the Holy Spirit.
Also because many belonging to the church who had believed while in the world that the Holy Spirit spoke through them, terrify others with the words of the Lord in Matthew (12:31, 32), claiming that to speak against what the Holy Spirit has inspired into them is the unpardonable sin.
Those who after instruction relinquish the belief that the Holy Spirit is a God by itself are then taught that the unity of God is not divided into three persons, each one of whom is singly God and Lord, according to the Athanasian creed, but that the Divine Trinity is in the Lord the Savior Jesus Christ, like the soul, the body, and the proceeding energy in every man.
After this they are prepared for receiving the faith of the new heaven; and when so prepared a way is opened for them to a society in heaven where a like faith prevails, and an abode is given them among brethren, with whom they are to live in blessedness to eternity.
Harry
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SpiritualSon
Guest
The Holy Spirit
The Holy Spirit is the Divine Truth and also the Divine Energy and Operation proceeding from the one God in whom is the Divine Trinity, that is, from the Lord God the Savior Jesus Christ.
The Holy Spirit signifies strictly the Divine truth, also the Word; and in this sense the Lord Himself is the Holy Spirit.
But since in the church at this day the Divine operation, which is actually justification, is what is meant by the Holy Spirit, this is here taken to be the Holy Spirit, and is what is chiefly treated of.
This is done for the further reason that the Divine operation is effected by means of the Divine Truth which goes forth from the Lord.
That which goes forth is of one and the same essence with Him from whom it goes forth, as the three things, soul, body, and what goes forth from them, together constitute one essence, which in man is purely human, but in the Lord it is Divine and Human at the same time.
These after glorification are united as what is prior is with its posterior, or as essence is with its form.The three essentials, called Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, are one in the Lord.
Harry
The Holy Spirit is the Divine Truth and also the Divine Energy and Operation proceeding from the one God in whom is the Divine Trinity, that is, from the Lord God the Savior Jesus Christ.
The Holy Spirit signifies strictly the Divine truth, also the Word; and in this sense the Lord Himself is the Holy Spirit.
But since in the church at this day the Divine operation, which is actually justification, is what is meant by the Holy Spirit, this is here taken to be the Holy Spirit, and is what is chiefly treated of.
This is done for the further reason that the Divine operation is effected by means of the Divine Truth which goes forth from the Lord.
That which goes forth is of one and the same essence with Him from whom it goes forth, as the three things, soul, body, and what goes forth from them, together constitute one essence, which in man is purely human, but in the Lord it is Divine and Human at the same time.
These after glorification are united as what is prior is with its posterior, or as essence is with its form.The three essentials, called Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, are one in the Lord.
Harry
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Gryphon
Guest
Just because you like it better, doesn’t mean it’s true. Your first clue that this is just plain wrong is the phrase “New Church.”
Truth is founded on the authority of Jesus Christ - who established His Church. The founder of my church is Jesus Christ, Who handed on His teachings, and His authority, to that church. My Church goes back 2000+ years, to the actual time when Our Lord walked the earth, teaching His doctrines, and redeeming our souls through His death and resurrection, and establishing His Church to be the shepherd to His flock after His ascension into Heaven. My Church is built on the Rock of Peter, in unbroken apostolic succession - despite the worst attacks that Satan could throw at it!
Your “New Church’s” founder is some guy by the name of Emmanuel Swedenborg, who arrogated the authority to promulgate his theories out of nowhere - except maybe his own pride.
How any one individual can believe they know God better than the Church He founded is beyond me… but fortunately, I don’t have to repeat their error.
So pardon me if I continue to study the authentic teachings (i.e., the catechism) of the magisterium of the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church - the **only **church established by Our Lord Jesus Christ, and endowed with His authority - rather than go down the rat hole of websites dedicated to the confused theology of a single heretic from the 17th century.
(Oh, by the way… after Christ’s resurrection, in His glorified body, you certainly can’t believe that He existed in two states - humiliation and glorification - He was totally glorified! And yet, He still speaks of “returning to His Father” So clearly, God the Father is not just some code word for the glorified Christ.)
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Gryphon
Guest
Truth is founded not on our own understanding, but on the Authority of Our Lord Jesus Christ.
Just because you prefer something doesn’t make it true. Your first clue that something is seriously wrong with the theology your promoting is the phrase “New Church.”
My Church is the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church founded by Our Lord Jesus Christ about two millenia ago, when He walked this earth - teaching us, saving us, and establishing His Church so that she could be the shepherd to His flock after His ascension into heaven. In order to fulfill her mission, Our Lord endowed the Church with His Authority.
My Church is founded on the Rock of Peter, the role of the papacy which is the touchstone of the authentic teaching authority of the Church - a role which has survived two millenia in unbroken apostolic succession, despite the worst attacks that Satan could throw at it!
Your “New Church” was founded by some guy named Emmanuel Swedenborg, who arrogated to himself the authority to teach his new theories out of nowhere - except maybe his own spiritual pride.
And from other posts on this thread, the Swedenborgian theology seems to positively encourage you to believe whatever you please - based on your claimed authority of “understanding” given to you by God. But Christ already handed over His true authority to His Church - laying His hands on Peter, speaking the words that handed over the keys of the Kingdom to him and his successors… Our Lord is all about unity - He does not set up conflicting authorities to confuse His sheep. There can only be one true Church - anyone who claims an authority outside it is claiming an empty authority that will lead to nothing but confusion and error.
How anyone can believe they know God better than the Church He Himself founded is beyond me. But, fortunately, I do have to repeat their error.
So pardon me if I continue to study the authentic teachings of the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church - rather than go down the rat hole of websites dedicated to the confused theology of a single 17th century heretic.
By the way - after Christ’s resurrection, He was in His glorified body - clearly, no more “state of humiliation” was in Him… He was totally glorified! And yet, at His ascension, He still speaks of returning to His Father. So clearly, “God the Father” is more than a code word for “glorified state of Christ” - because the glorified Christ was looking forward to going home to His Father!
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Carl
Guest
GRYPHON
I like your thinking and writing style.
God bless,
Carl
I like your thinking and writing style.
God bless,
Carl
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SpiritualSon
Guest
I don’t read Thomas Aquinas. Authority didn’t go to Peter’s head.
Harry
Harry
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James_Kanatous
Guest
SpiritualSon said:
Your assertion is overly esoteric, to say the least. Nonetheless, of course religious doctrine asserts that there is a God, however, the contradiction is that it cannot tell you what God is nor can it affirm that God exists, since it presumes God to be a supernatural being, which by it’s very nature cannot be known to us because of the fact that we cannot conceive of anything supernatural nor metaphysically incorporeal. Accordingly, scripture is entirely fallacious, for it asserts that there is God, while indirectly admitting that the nature, and existence, of God cannot be known.
Here is a quote from the protestant theologian, Paul Tillich,
". . . the question of the existence of God can be neither asked nor answered. If asked, it is a question about that which by its very nature is above existence, and therefore the answer–whether negative or affirmative–implicitly denies the nature of God. It is as atheistic to affirm the existence of God as it is to deny it. God is being-itself, not a being."
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SpiritualSon
Guest
rosarian said:
I understand the trinity very well .Your Church see it in the natural sense,but not in the spiritual sense. The natural sense is meant by the Son of man coming in the clouds, and in glory, means the spiritual sense.The spiritual sense of the Word of God is also meant by the white horse in Revelation.
Harry
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SpiritualSon
Guest
The first early Christians acknowledged that the Lord Jesus Christ was God, and to Him was given all power in heaven and on earth, and power over all flesh, as His actual words declare (Matt. 28:18) (John 17:2). (John 3:15, 16, 36)( 6:40)( 11:25, 26).
This same fact is also evident from the summoning of all the bishops by the emperor Constantine the Great, in order that Arius and his followers, who denied the divinity of the Lord the Saviour born of the Virgin Mary, should be convicted and condemned on the authority of scripture.
This they succeeded in doing, but in avoiding the wolf they ran into the lion, or as the proverb has it, the man who seeks to avoid Charybdis runs into Scylla.
They devised the fiction of a Son of God from eternity, who came down and took upon Himself a human form, believing that they were thus claiming back and restoring His divinity to the Lord.
But they did not know that Jehovah God, the Creator of the universe Himself came down in order to become the Redeemer, and thus a second Creator, as is clearly stated in the Old Testament (Isa. 25:9) (40:3,5,10, 11)(43:14)( 44:6,24) (47:4)(48:17)(49:7,26)(60:16)(63:16)(Jer.50:34) Hosea (13:4)( Ps.19:14) add to these John (9:15).
On that day it will be said, Behold, He is our God, whom we have awaited to free us. He is Jehovah, whom we have awaited; let us exult and rejoice in His salvation. Isa. 25:9.
We are in truth, in Jesus Christ. He is the true God and everlasting life. My sons, beware of idols. 1 John 5:20, 21.
Harry
This same fact is also evident from the summoning of all the bishops by the emperor Constantine the Great, in order that Arius and his followers, who denied the divinity of the Lord the Saviour born of the Virgin Mary, should be convicted and condemned on the authority of scripture.
This they succeeded in doing, but in avoiding the wolf they ran into the lion, or as the proverb has it, the man who seeks to avoid Charybdis runs into Scylla.
They devised the fiction of a Son of God from eternity, who came down and took upon Himself a human form, believing that they were thus claiming back and restoring His divinity to the Lord.
But they did not know that Jehovah God, the Creator of the universe Himself came down in order to become the Redeemer, and thus a second Creator, as is clearly stated in the Old Testament (Isa. 25:9) (40:3,5,10, 11)(43:14)( 44:6,24) (47:4)(48:17)(49:7,26)(60:16)(63:16)(Jer.50:34) Hosea (13:4)( Ps.19:14) add to these John (9:15).
On that day it will be said, Behold, He is our God, whom we have awaited to free us. He is Jehovah, whom we have awaited; let us exult and rejoice in His salvation. Isa. 25:9.
We are in truth, in Jesus Christ. He is the true God and everlasting life. My sons, beware of idols. 1 John 5:20, 21.
Harry
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Gryphon
Guest
Actually, I’ve read very little of Thomas Aquinas myself.
Of course authority didn’t go to St. Peter’s head… that’s because it was a legitimate gift of Our Lord to him and to his successors.
Anyone who thinks they can overturn the authentic teaching of the magesterium of the Church in favor of their own private theories… not that’s a good example of authority going to someone’s head!
God bless,
Gryphon
PS - sorry for the double post saying basically the same thing. It looked as though the cyber-gremlins had eaten my first attempt, so I tried to re-create it from memory and posted it again. Whereupone the cyber-gremlins decided they would give back the first one… gotta love them cyber-gremlins…
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Gryphon
Guest
Actually, I’ve read very little of Thomas Aquinas myself.
Of course authority didn’t go to St. Peter’s head… that’s because it was a legitimate gift of Our Lord to him and to his successors.
Anyone who thinks they can overturn the authentic teaching of the magesterium of the Church in favor of their own private theories… now that’s a good example of authority going to someone’s head!
God bless,
Gryphon
PS - sorry for the double post saying basically the same thing. It looked as though the cyber-gremlins had eaten my first attempt, so I tried to re-create it from memory and posted it again. Whereupon the cyber-gremlins decided they would give back the first one… gotta love them cyber-gremlins…
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Gryphon
Guest
I seem doomed to have my “first drafts” published as well as the “final copy”!
Maybe it’s time I figured out the difference between “Submit” and “Preview Post”!?!
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SpiritualSon
Guest
**All things that the Father hath are Mine (John 16:15; see also 12:45). **
That the authority of Divine and Human act as one in Jesus Christ.
**The Father hath given all things into the hand of the Son (John 13:3). **
When Jehovah God the Father became Man,He gave all power and authority to the Human Form He assumed under the name Jesus Christ
**Father, thou hast given Me power over all flesh; all Mine are Thine and Thine are Mine (John 17:2-3, 10). **
The same as above.
**All power and authority is given unto Me in heaven and on earth (Matt. 28:18). **
**He and the Father are one; and that He is in the Father and the Father in Him; and that he who seeth Him seeth the Father (John 10:28, 38; 14:6-11). **
He and the Father are one, means the Human and the Divine Soul of Jesus Christ are one Divine Person.Amen.
**The Lord gave me authority over hell, because no temptations can get to me. Evil spirits comes to me only if I invite them,and I will not do that,but I am not perfect.This I feel within myself. My mind is sound and peaceful. **
If the Catholics would only look to the Lord the way I do, they too would be given the authority over hell, not by the Pope and his Bishops,but by the Lord only.
Authority over hell means authority over tamptations from hell, but by the Lord’s Power only in man.Man is overcome by the delights of evil, not evil in its pure state.Without the delights of evil man would have no for love it. It is the Lord who fight in man.No one can do good from himself,without the Lord.The Lord said, “Without Me you can do nothing.” The Man fights temptations as if from self, but it is the Lord who fights in him and through him.Amen
Harry
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Gryphon
Guest
No faith on earth?
Oh dear, Harry… don’t have my Bible handy, so I can’t quote chapter & verse… but St. Paul says that of Faith, Hope, and Charity, Charity is the greatest virtue, for it is the only one that will not pass away in heaven. Here on earth, Faith & Hope are two of the greatest virtues.
We’re supposed to have faith! Not strip away the real mystery of the Godhead so we can claim (rather speciously, I might add) to “understand” it.
Mystery is part of the package. If you’re not comfortable with that - that’s okay. Acknowledge that. But don’t try to water doctrines down to the point where you think they’re “understandable.” Because some things - like God Himself - just are too big for our human minds. If you claim to “understand” the Godhead - you’re fooling yourself. No finite mind can comprehend the Infinite.
By trying to simplify the doctrine of the Trinity to something “understandable” you set up a finite, “straw” god - you believe in something that hardly resembles the real God at all.
Also - regarding the coming of the end times - Our Lord Jesus Christ tells His apostles that no one knows the day or the hour of their coming… that has been reserved by the Father to the Father alone.
And you still say they are not two Persons, of One Substance?
- Status