OOOps I pushed the wrong button!God is pure Spirit. God is so perfect that he doesn’t have to exist. If God were to exist, he would not be perfect because that which exists becomes imperfect in the way that it needs to manifest itself. Perfection can never manifest itself because if it did we would be able to look at God from different perspectives; as one man’s God is another man’s devil.
Perfection should, to be if it is perfect, transcend and surpass the uttermost boundaries of reason; and what is beyond the capabilities of any beings reason; but that which doesn’t exist; therefore God is so perfect that he doesn’t have to exist. This is beyond any being’s comprehension because no being can grasp non-existence.
In Spirit, we draw from concept and experience to manifest the reason that suggests God exists; however, no one can truly know or grasp the perfection of God because we, if we were to assume God is perfect then we must transcend and surpass the uttermost boundaries of reason to that which doesn’t exist.
God only is and acts within existing beings and men.
Whoever comes across this stone shall stumble. But whoever this stone falls upon shall be as dust.
So something comes from nothing. Well that sets things straight. :whacky: :bigyikes:My personal view:
God does not exist…
Rather it is that God is the origin and generator of existence, it springs from him. God is “nothingness” or more appropriately, “no-thingness”…not, in essence a thing.
None of that logic seems to even slightly require the conclusion that God does not exist in the sense that the Church teaches; it does require that God’s existence (particularly that of the Father and Holy Spirit, and of the entire Trinity pre-incarnation) be something wholly other, something perhaps beyond even the sort existence we can understand…but then, that God is beyond our understanding and too great to be efficiently compared to ordinary existence and concepts is completely in line with Catholic teaching…Well, the old Catholic doctrine is indeed “ex nihilo”, something from nothing.
What I hold to is not quite that, however. Rather that some"thing" is coming from no “thing”.
That the essence of God, being alien to and devoid of all possible categorical limitation, can not be remotely approached by the modes of existence that we encounter in our every day perception.
The categories of existence of “thingness” can not be brought before the essence of God and survive application to It. No"thingness" then becomes a more appropriate term, while nevertheless remaining insufficient.
After reading your second post, Gnosis, I also have more clarity with where you are going with this thought BUT, like KindredSoul, I would also need much more clarification. My thoughts completely align with KindredSoul’s post as this reflects proper Church teachings as to the nature of God. God is pure spirit from all eternity. From His Word “things” leapt into existence. His essence is existence and no human mind can formulate what this existence truly is except for the revelation given to us through His Son, Jesus Christ. The fact that Jesus mostly spoke in parables, ways which make it comprehensible for us humans, indicates the infinite chasm between our understanding and His existence.None of that logic seems to even slightly require the conclusion that God does not exist in the sense that the Church teaches; it does require that God’s existence (particularly that of the Father and Holy Spirit, and of the entire Trinity pre-incarnation) be something wholly other, something perhaps beyond even the sort existence we can understand…but then, that God is beyond our understanding and too great to be efficiently compared to ordinary existence and concepts is completely in line with Catholic teaching…
So, in the end, if by “No thingness” you mean God is not an ordinary “thing” as we understand the concept, your concept may be applicable even if your wording is far too dangerous/heterodox to be an appropriate description of it.
If, however, by “No thingness” you mean that God is not (or hasn’t always been) an existing, conscious, real-though-spiritual Being, then the term and concept are by no means a proper understanding, nor is it necessary to conclude so from the logic you have presented.
Does the clay tell the potter how to make itself?Why would God need to send someone to save us if he is perfect? Wouldn’t a perfect God be able to establish perfection in any other way? Isn’t there any other way that God could save us from our sins, if he were perfect? How come in order to save someone, one of us needs to die? Is death part of God’s image of perfection? Why would it be necessary to die in order save a world? What? The Gods could do it no other way?
I would have to agree here, God is emptiness, which is the fullness of perfection.God becomes empty and in the emptiness, to completion
God is emptiness…Interesting observation though lacking theological ideology. If left as " God is…" and allowing God to reveal the blanks would seem more fitting coming from a finite mind describing an infinite being.… God is emptiness, which is the fullness of perfection.
This does mean that God does not exist, though I say that God does not exist more or less ***on account of the extreme subtly of its existence. ***
God is emptiness …
Yet God is ever-complete in itself …
Your colorful language exhibits the lengths and depths that you’ll trod upon to describe the infinite wonder of God. You seem to be utilizing all angles in which to maintain the grandeur of a God so deserving of the awe He represents. In that respect and in your acknowledgement that all things fall short when describing God, I give it to you to use the limited language in the way that you are to find a God who infinitely extends the limits of all description… God BlessWhen I begin speaking of God, I do take for granted that everything I am saying is false in the ultimate sense of things.
However, this does not impair me to speak of God as truthfully as I possibly can.
God is an emptiness, being an unfathomable depth, emptiness is fullness in the sense of the infinite and limitless because of the complete erosion of conceptual barriers (acknowledging this description itself is a kind of conceptual barrier being imposed by me)
I never said God is making an addition to himself …however, as God moves into our perception he becomes infinitely expanding potential…when we simply say “God is” it is common to create, in our minds, a fixed notion of God as being “something” when in fact, on account of the limitless nature, he is not some “thing” because no limit can be placed upon him to make him one thing or another.
From the standing point of perception, from the way in which God is recieved by creation, God is ever-becoming, from the stand point of God there is only pristine being.
That’s beautiful in thought. Now that we have our perfect God who is empty, we can then fill him with our desires. We fill him with Love first and foremost. Justice for All. We give him the desire that all life is to be fruitful; and in such there is many fruits; therefore, our new God doesn’t actually believe in anything but Perfection; and in essence molds us but not presses us into shape–to give us part of him, only the best part and since he is perfect–he gives us the ability to attain perfection. This new God is disease free and ridden of faith, since beliefs are the bullets of the wicked; but in this new God he is of infinite perception; therefore he believes in nothing but perfection. God is only one; therefore, three Gods are placed beneath his foot; and to make it come true we ask this in the name of Jesus Christ so that our joy may be complete in our new God; and if we ask him to do this he will, since we believe, otherwise he is a liar. God is one and one alone. Faith is replaced with emptiness and then is only filled with the best choices. Therefore, God becomes like us so that we may become like him.I would have to agree here, God is emptiness, which is the fullness of perfection.
This does mean that God does not exist, though I say that God does not exist more or less on account of the extreme subtly of its existence. Sustaining existence, it is a step removed from it, though he pervades it in order to sustain its being.
God is emptiness because it is infinitely becoming, and thus, is pure infinite potential. Its being is an unfathomable depth without constraint. Yet God is ever-complete in itself and thus, the fullness of perfection and the pillar and resting place of all creation.
I don’t think merely existing means something is imperfect. (And your 'one man’s God is another’s devil" argument presupposes these men are correct.)If God were to exist, he would not be perfect because that which exists becomes imperfect in the way that it needs to manifest itself.
So? At least one of the men in that case is wrong. A thing’s perfection does not require that everyone knows enough about it to agree that it is perfect.Perfection can never manifest itself because if it did we would be able to look at God from different perspectives; as one man’s God is another man’s devil.
The church teaches that these two realities of God’s “oneness” and threeness" are not contradictory. Rather, God is one Being in three Persons; within his very essence, he is one community of love.That’s beautiful in thought. Now that we have our perfect God who is empty, we can then fill him with our desires. We fill him with Love first and foremost. Justice for All. We give him the desire that all life is to be fruitful; and in such there is many fruits; therefore, our new God doesn’t actually believe in anything but Perfection; and in essence molds us but not presses us into shape–to give us part of him, only the best part and since he is perfect–he gives us the ability to attain perfection. This new God is disease free and ridden of faith, since beliefs are the bullets of the wicked; but in this new God he is of infinite perception; therefore he believes in nothing but perfection. God is only one; therefore, three Gods are placed beneath his foot; and to make it come true we ask this in the name of Jesus Christ so that our joy may be complete in our new God; and if we ask him to do this he will, since we believe, otherwise he is a liar. God is one and one alone. Faith is replaced with emptiness and then is only filled with the best choices. Therefore, God becomes like us so that we may become like him.
If God is perfect, when we come face to face with God, then that God must appear perfect in the eyes of all men and beings; otherwise he is imperfect.So? At least one of the men in that case is wrong. A thing’s perfection does not require that everyone knows enough about it to agree that it is perfect.
And the Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us, and we saw his glory, the glory as of the Father’s only son, full of grace and truth.To breakthrough to the sum of my point, so that you may see more clearly:
Yea, a creator being surely exists but as I said God must have a concept of what God is; as I spoke, God only is and acts within existing beings and men. It is not God, the being, who is God but the word that flows from his mouth is God; as it is a conceptualization of the defining word that flows from the mouth that is divine because it is constructive to the concept of what God is. Just like in scripture, it says, In the beginning was the word and the word was with God (the creator being) and the word (the word is that which is spoken must be divine) was God.
Therefore, God only is and acts within existing beings and men.
Well, if the word can be made flesh once then it is meant to be made flesh for all those who speak it’s truth. I, myself, and you, can be made into a God just by speaking the word; as long as we remain in the truth. But aren’t there other truths besides that which is made by Jesus Christ, as spoken. Does not the Truth blossom into a flower or does it remain a seed, eternally?And the Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us, and we saw his glory, the glory as of the Father’s only son, full of grace and truth.