The Truth about God

[dessert]

THE POWER OF THE TONGUE;
Not many of you should become teacher, my brothers, for you realize that we will be judged more strictly, for we fall short in many respects. If anyone does not fall short in speech, he is a perfect man, able to bridle his whole body also, if we put bits into the mouths of horses to make them obey us, we also guide their whole bodies. It is the same with ships; even though they are so large and driven by fierce winds, they are steered by a very small rudder wherever the pilots inclinatiioon wishes . In the same way the tongue is a small member and yet has great pretentions.

Consider how small a fire can set a huge forest ablaze. the tongue is also a fire. it exists among our members as a world of malice, defiling the whole body and setting the entire course of our lives on fire, itself set on fire by Gehenna. For every kind of beast and bird, of reptile and sea creature, can be tamed and has been tamed by the human species, but no human being can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison. With it we bless the Lord and Father, and with it we curse human beings who are made in the likeness of God. From the same mouth come blessing and cursing. This need not be so, my brothers. Does a spring gush forth from the same opening both pure and brackish water? Can a fig tree, my brothers, produce olives, or a grapevine figs? Neither can salt water yield fresh.

James 3; 1-11

 

[dessert]

CAUSES OF DIVISION
Where do the wars and where do the conflicts among you come from? Is it not from your passiions that make war within your members? You covet but do not possess. You kill and envy but you cannot obtain; you fight and wage war. You do not posses because you do not ask. You ask but do not receive, because you ask wrongly, to spend it on your passions. Adultereers! Do you know that to be lover of the world means enmity with God ? Therefore, whoever wants to be lover of the world makes himself an enemy of God. Or do you suppose the scripture speaks without meaning when it says, “The spirit that he has made to dwell in us tends towards jealousy”? But he bestowes a greater grace; therefore , it says; "God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble.’ So submit yourselves to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw near to Go, and he will draw near to you. cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you of two minds. Begin to lament, to mourn to weep. Let your laughter be turned into mourning and your joy into dejection. Humble yourselves before the Lord and he will exalt you.

James 4;1-10

 

[Sixtus]

If God were to exist,

God only is and acts within existing beings and men.

What do you mean ‘if He were to exist’? Take it from me He DOES exist. I have had a personal mystical encounter with the Spirit of our God!

 

[The_heretic]

THE POWER OF THE TONGUE;
Not many of you should become teacher, my brothers, for you realize that we will be judged more strictly, for we fall short in many respects. If anyone does not fall short in speech, he is a perfect man, able to bridle his whole body also, if we put bits into the mouths of horses to make them obey us, we also guide their whole bodies. It is the same with ships; even though they are so large and driven by fierce winds, they are steered by a very small rudder wherever the pilots inclinatiioon wishes . In the same way the tongue is a small member and yet has great pretentions.

Consider how small a fire can set a huge forest ablaze. the tongue is also a fire. it exists among our members as a world of malice, defiling the whole body and setting the entire course of our lives on fire, itself set on fire by Gehenna. For every kind of beast and bird, of reptile and sea creature, can be tamed and has been tamed by the human species, but no human being can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison. With it we bless the Lord and Father, and with it we curse human beings who are made in the likeness of God. From the same mouth come blessing and cursing. This need not be so, my brothers. Does a spring gush forth from the same opening both pure and brackish water? Can a fig tree, my brothers, produce olives, or a grapevine figs? Neither can salt water yield fresh.

James 3; 1-11

But every rose has it’s thorns. I know exactly what you are talking about. It is the words that come out of our mouths that in reality we believe what we are saying and we become what we speak of. Beware of the devils of Truth; for they will steal your soul away from you and bring you into bondage; not that we are not already bond so that those who are blind have been blessed; and in their blindness is their freedom; for words when spoken in order (when walked through and believed) will ignite a flame within one self; as if breathing a living-spirit in spoken word. Words are deadly poison to the mind; for in them is iniquity and words are not truth but convey truth; and those who seek truth seek their own demise. The Truth will not set you free but bind you in their enchantment. If you want to live in the truth then speak not a word, not a thought; for there is no truth in words. Truth is that which is not spoken; but this is unacceptable to the human mind–the mind is enslaved to words. We are given meanings to words and we put them together to give an identity to ourselves and in essence the words we speak describe our souls and becomes our truth. The foxes have their dens, the birds their nests but human beings have no place to rest their heads, unless it be in friendship.

 

[The_heretic]

Just to add to the above statement:

Words got you the wound and words will heal you if you believe in them.

 

[The_heretic]

CAUSES OF DIVISION
Where do the wars and where do the conflicts among you come from? Is it not from your passiions that make war within your members? You covet but do not possess. You kill and envy but you cannot obtain; you fight and wage war. You do not posses because you do not ask. You ask but do not receive, because you ask wrongly, to spend it on your passions. Adultereers! Do you know that to be lover of the world means enmity with God ? Therefore, whoever wants to be lover of the world makes himself an enemy of God. Or do you suppose the scripture speaks without meaning when it says, “The spirit that he has made to dwell in us tends towards jealousy”? But he bestowes a greater grace; therefore , it says; "God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble.’ So submit yourselves to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw near to Go, and he will draw near to you. cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you of two minds. Begin to lament, to mourn to weep. Let your laughter be turned into mourning and your joy into dejection. Humble yourselves before the Lord and he will exalt you.

James 4;1-10

Thieves don’t take the house of the strong, nor does the master suffer them to break in unless he knows the part in which they will enter. Then he allows the thieves to break in and rummage through his possessions, while he, the master of the house, rummages through the thieves things. Then the master of the house sends the thieves empty handed and the master remains in his domain. A fortified city with ten-thousands of spears.
Calliope envy from your daddy. He wants to be me but that scares him. A den of thieves.

 

[dessert]

Is anyone among you suffering? He should pray. Is anyone in good spirits? He should sing praise. Is anyone among you sick? He should summon the presbyters of the church, and they should pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord, and the prayer of faith will save the sick person, and the Lord will raise him up. If he has committed any sins, he will be forgiven.
Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The fervant prayer of a righteous person is very powerful. Elijah was a human being like us; yet he prayed earnestly that it might not rain, and for three years and six months it did not rain upon the land. Then he prayed again, and the sky gave rain and the earth produced its fruit.
My brothers, if anyone among you should stray from the truth and someone bring him back, he should know that whoever brings back a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins. James 5; 13-20

 

[KindredSoul]

To breakthrough to the sum of my point, so that you may see more clearly:

Yea, a creator being surely exists but as I said God must have a concept of what God is; as I spoke, God only is and acts within existing beings and men. It is not God, the being, who is God but the word that flows from his mouth is God; as it is a conceptualization of the defining word that flows from the mouth that is divine because it is constructive to the concept of what God is. Just like in scripture, it says, In the beginning was the word and the word was with God (the creator being) and the word (the word is that which is spoken must be divine) was God.
Therefore, God only is and acts within existing beings and men.

Hmmm…okay, everything except the last sentence of this post, is similar (but a little too close to heresy to be identical) to a very good argument…for the Trinity. Thank you for that; properly used and tweaked, such logic would put you on the solid path to orthodoxy. However, it is by no means a good argument, nor is it even a logical argument to conclude that “God only is and acts within existing beings and men.” God is, independent of existing beings and men, and God acts likewise if He so chooses. This is a fact.

If God is perfect, when we come face to face with God, then that God must appear perfect in the eyes of all men and beings; otherwise he is imperfect.

Ridiculous logic; perfection is objective, not a popularity contest. If two men, or even if a thousand men, disagree on what the epitome perfection is, they are not all right. Only one of them can be right, or none of them. God’s perfection doesn’t hinge on all agreeing whether or not He is perfect.

Your argument seems to be going in circles. In these cases and others, you’ve had your argument refuted, only to state it again, without anything or hardly anything different to add to it or make it better.

The rest of your posts seem to be clever wordplays and, in other cases, jumbles of words that make little logical sense, and which I don’t really think anyone, you included, can really believe…it’s ridiculous, and until there are some more sensible, coherent arguments, I don’t know that we aren’t all just wasting our time with a topic that was probably started for nothing except the sake of controversy instead of being a sincere attempt to seek the Truth.

 

[Valke2]

If God is perfect, when we come face to face with God, then that God must appear perfect in the eyes of all men and beings; otherwise he is imperfect.

HOw does imperfect preception translate into the thing itself being imperfect?

 

[The_heretic]

HOw does imperfect preception translate into the thing itself being imperfect?

In truth, an image of perfection should be able to cleanse perception, otherwise the image of perfection becomes imperfect. The church has this concept of a beatific vision upon coming face to face with God. If it’s true, then the beatific vision would cleanse perception and reveal perfection in the eyes of the beholder.

 

[Valke2]

In truth, an image of perfection should be able to cleanse perception, otherwise the image of perfection becomes imperfect.

So a perfect circle, for example, should look the same to me whether I am 10 feet or 2 feet away? Whether I am wearing my glasses?

Are we dealing with something that is perfect or the image of something that is perfect?

I don’t understand why it can not be possible to experience something perfect without understanding it perfectly.

 

[KindredSoul]

The church has this concept of a beatific vision upon coming face to face with God. If it’s true, then the beatific vision would cleanse perception and reveal perfection in the eyes of the beholder.

Yes…and those who do gain the beatific vision will all have their vision cleansed and will see God’s perfection clearly. To my knowledge, those who gain the beatific vision are those in Heaven, and no one in Heaven will fail to see, in their very own perception, that God is perfect.

 

[The_heretic]

Is anyone among you suffering? He should pray. Is anyone in good spirits? He should sing praise. Is anyone among you sick? He should summon the presbyters of the church, and they should pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord, and the prayer of faith will save the sick person, and the Lord will raise him up. If he has committed any sins, he will be forgiven.
Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The fervant prayer of a righteous person is very powerful. Elijah was a human being like us; yet he prayed earnestly that it might not rain, and for three years and six months it did not rain upon the land. Then he prayed again, and the sky gave rain and the earth produced its fruit.
My brothers, if anyone among you should stray from the truth and someone bring him back, he should know that whoever brings back a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins. James 5; 13-20

I was born without sin, I have asked this in the name of Jesus Christ, and whatever I ask for in his name so shall it be done, since I have believed, I have received, so that my joy shall be full. I have no need to confess or repent for anything since I was born without sin (and so wasn’t my wife). Take that bible basher. I’m destroying your faith.

 

[dessert]

I was born without sin, I have asked this in the name of Jesus Christ, and whatever I ask for in his name so shall it be done, since I have believed, I have received, so that my joy shall be full. I have no need to confess or repent for anything since I was born without sin (and so wasn’t my wife). Take that bible basher. I’m destroying your faith.

---

I FORGIVE YOU !!! SO MY FAITH IS NOT DESTOYED !!!
I HAVE ASKED GOD TO BE LIKE PETER SO HERE GOES WHATEVER IS BOUND IN HEAVEN IS BOUND IN HEAVEN AND WHATEVER IS BOUND ON EARTH IS BOUND ON EARTH SO MY FAITH IS BOUND IN HEAVEN SO YOU CAN’T DESTROY IT! ALSO IN THE NAME OF JESUS THE CHRIST. MY FAITH CANNOT BE DESTROYED ONLY BY MY LACK OF FAITH AS I AM STILL A SINNER AND ASK MFATHER FOR FORGIVENESS EVERYDAY BECAUSE IIIIIII
AAAMMMMMM NOTTTTTTTTT PERFECTTTTTTTTT

 

[KindredSoul]

Take that bible basher. I’m destroying your faith.

Don’t you wish?! As evident from Dessert’s latest post, you are overconfident in your logic, The_heretic, and I find that both sad and laughable…mostly sad, but it’s still worth a good laugh that you actually find your arguments significant enough to be destroying anyone’s faith.

Statements like this make me believe that’s the whole reason you’re on this board. You want power. You want to prove that you can destroy people’s faith. You want to think that your power of reasoning and logic is more powerful even than the (sometimes lifelong) faith that someone has placed in God as revealed by His Church.

Sorry, as Dessert has triumphantly demonstrated, you won’t get what you’re here for. Most people here have stronger Faith than that. The Church has been around for nearly 2000 years, and has better arguments and superior intellect to any one human being, including yourself.

Sorry (or rather, delighted) to burst your prideful bubble, but if you manage to destroy anyone’s faith, their faith clearly wasn’t very big to begin with. You’re good with words to an extent, but you’re not nearly good enough with coherent, sense-making logic to present even one significant doubt (or, for me personally, even the slightest doubt) in the mind of a firm believer.

 

[dessert]

Why would God need to send someone to save us if he is perfect? Wouldn’t a perfect God be able to establish perfection in any other way? Isn’t there any other way that God could save us from our sins, if he were perfect? How come in order to save someone, one of us needs to die? Is death part of God’s image of perfection? Why would it be necessary to die in order save a world? What? The Gods could do it no other way?

So many questions.
He is perfect. He made man to complete His garden. Look at what the angels did to Him, they had a free choice, they have no redemptioon they chose God or not.
Man had a free will God throws up his hands now what I cannot have imperfection (sin) in my sight, butttt he has a plan I will send a redeemer.
One of needs not to die… God sends His own Son to die for you and me no other way He must send the best and perfect Spirit to become flesh for you and for me.
Death is the thorns on the rose but Jesus is the rose among the thorns.
Death was the sin that made man’s immortal body become mortal but the soul has a redemptive chance so He sent His Son into a flesh to die for you and for me and for your wife .
Death is the result of disease to our body but our soul will have a chance to live forever.
(Never the less, redeemed human beings will one day be perfected in such a way that the angels will be subject to them. ) hint not my own words
I could quote yoou all kind of scripture about the Father (God ) who is the one with the power not me (not like daddy) by the way my own dad said he would like to shoot me so you will have to get in line for the bashing, I preach to him too much, but it is only because I care that you can see the truth afterall you came on this forum asking about our God I think?
Or was there someother god you had in mind. so the game is not afoot any more you have your own beliefs and you are entitled after all this is a non-cathholic forum sorry to take up your time maybe some else can see clearly if only through a glass darkly and they will see dessert on another forum and say oh no there she is agaain edit#####.
I actually rather like praying with the others and discussing some other real problems in this world because we do all know that evil does exist and I can’t help myself God has conquered death through the Person of Jesus Christ the Trinity. Yes you have strenghthened my faith!!! bye tooooo dessert

 

[The_heretic]

---

I FORGIVE YOU !!! SO MY FAITH IS NOT DESTOYED !!!
I HAVE ASKED GOD TO BE LIKE PETER SO HERE GOES WHATEVER IS BOUND IN HEAVEN IS BOUND IN HEAVEN AND WHATEVER IS BOUND ON EARTH IS BOUND ON EARTH SO MY FAITH IS BOUND IN HEAVEN SO YOU CAN’T DESTROY IT! ALSO IN THE NAME OF JESUS THE CHRIST. MY FAITH CANNOT BE DESTROYED ONLY BY MY LACK OF FAITH AS I AM STILL A SINNER AND ASK MFATHER FOR FORGIVENESS EVERYDAY BECAUSE IIIIIII
AAAMMMMMM NOTTTTTTTTT PERFECTTTTTTTTT

Forgive me for what? I told you I was born without sin because I asked for it. Jesus says, ask and you shall receive. Knock and it shall be open to you. You can’t tell me what I can ask for and what I can’t. Remain a sinner, I don’t care. You think Jesus Christ is the only one that ever broke a net?

 

[The_heretic]

Don’t you wish?! As evident from Dessert’s latest post, you are overconfident in your logic, The_heretic, and I find that both sad and laughable…mostly sad, but it’s still worth a good laugh that you actually find your arguments significant enough to be destroying anyone’s faith.

Statements like this make me believe that’s the whole reason you’re on this board. You want power. You want to prove that you can destroy people’s faith. You want to think that your power of reasoning and logic is more powerful even than the (sometimes lifelong) faith that someone has placed in God as revealed by His Church.

Sorry, as Dessert has triumphantly demonstrated, you won’t get what you’re here for. Most people here have stronger Faith than that. The Church has been around for nearly 2000 years, and has better arguments and superior intellect to any one human being, including yourself.

Sorry (or rather, delighted) to burst your prideful bubble, but if you manage to destroy anyone’s faith, their faith clearly wasn’t very big to begin with. You’re good with words to an extent, but you’re not nearly good enough with coherent, sense-making logic to present even one significant doubt (or, for me personally, even the slightest doubt) in the mind of a firm believer.

Jesus says ask and you shall receive. Just because it doesn’t come upon your minds to ask that you not be born with sin, doesn’t mean that someone else can’t ask for it. You don’t make the rules on what you can and can’t ask for. With what measure I measure with, I will be given in measure. Just because I don’t measure as you do, does not mean that my measurement is invalid. Remain a sinner, I don’t care.

 

[kellie]

Jesus says ask and you shall receive. Just because it doesn’t come upon your minds to ask that you not be born with sin, doesn’t mean that someone else can’t ask for it. You don’t make the rules on what you can and can’t ask for. With what measure I measure with, I will be given in measure. Just because I don’t measure as you do, does not mean that my measurement is invalid. Remain a sinner, I don’t care.

Are you saying you asked Jesus for you to be born without sin, and that you don’t sin at all?

 

[RobedWithLight]

To breakthrough to the sum of my point, so that you may see more clearly:

Yea, a creator being surely exists but as I said God must have a concept of what God is; as I spoke, God only is and acts within existing beings and men. It is not God, the being, who is God but the word that flows from his mouth is God; as it is a conceptualization of the defining word that flows from the mouth that is divine because it is constructive to the concept of what God is. Just like in scripture, it says, In the beginning was the word and the word was with God (the creator being) and the word (the word is that which is spoken must be divine) was God.
Therefore, God only is and acts within existing beings and men.

How can “God” flow “from” something that is less than a God? Your line of reasoning escapes me, as though you’re saying that an elephant can emerge from the mouth of a frog! You seem to be dividing the being of God unnecessarily by separating Him from His very actions that you say flow from Him.

The quote from John 1 clearly says that "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the word was God. The quote is quite clear that the Word is both distinct from the Father (was with God) and yet is also God (and the Word was God), which supports the Trinitarian view far more than the non-trinitarian one…