The Truth About Islam

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pismopal said:
There will always be disagreement about what the koran “says”…even among muslims…especially among muslims. I ask what difference it makes what the koran directs when muslims worldwide are at war with all other religions? A few adherants of other religions chose to resist…to defend themselves, others just endure the violence of muslims as long as they are able. What is absolutely unbelievable to me and many others is the failure of the western media to deal with the violence…the intolerance…the persecution.
If there is any response to this post from a muslim…it will be that the Bible has violence in it too. That may be true but it is also irrelevent as Christians are not killing, burning, raping in order to show muslims how superior their religion is…or to please God with how willing they are to murder their neighbors. What a wonderful god to worship…not.
This situation reminds me of the parallel universe that some of our fellow humans exist in and it doesn’t seem to be getting any improvement. If you westerners want to stick your head in the proverbial sand…ok but when you finally pull it out don’t blame the people who warned you:shrug:
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Many muslims think what is in their mind is the real Islam. It is the problem. What Quran says is so clean cut: And fight in the cause of God against those who fight you, but do not transgress, God does not like the aggressors.(Quran2:190)
 
friendship said:
Many muslims think what is in their mind is the real Islam. It is the problem. What Quran says is so clean cut: And fight in the cause of God against those who fight you, but do not transgress, God does not like the aggressors.(Quran2:190)
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Isn’t the “real islam” the islam we see manifested? I disagree that the koran discourages transgressions. The admonition to, “fight against those who fight you” can be very valuable to agressive muslims…who is fighting against you can be very loosely interpreted. There is more to the koran than just the words of the koran…the hadiths are also considered and that is just one of the problems with interpretation. What do you think of this? … " By their fruits you shall know them." Clue…it is not found in the koran.
 
pismopal said:
Isn’t the “real islam” the islam we see manifested? I disagree that the koran discourages transgressions. The admonition to, “fight against those who fight you” can be very valuable to agressive muslims…who is fighting against you can be very loosely interpreted. There is more to the koran than just the words of the koran…the hadiths are also considered and that is just one of the problems with interpretation. What do you think of this? … " By their fruits you shall know them." Clue…it is not found in the koran.
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My friend, I ask you know what is Islam. Islam is not What you see and what your orientalists show.there are many lies about Islam whitch learnt to christians everyday.

Muslims can’t sturt non-muslims and Islamic goverment must to panish the persons who sturt non-muslims. The problem is you don’t live in my country and advise about muslims. In Iran people love christians, zartoshtians and jews. People of Iran love peace and friendship. What radical muslims do is not what islam says to them. one of these radicals killed Imam Ali 4th khalefah of Sunnis and first imam of Shiahs. All muslims believe that imam Ali was a good man but that radical though that he is a unbiliever and killed him! So what a radical does, is not the real Islam. Real Islam is what Quran and prophet Muhammad ordered to.
 
Yes, and it is very bad for Islam! The ones who do so are dullard, because when the people unserstand that reality of christianity is another thing, they’ll thing that Islam can’t answer to the real Cristianity.
 
pismopal said:
There will always be disagreement about what the koran “says”…even among muslims…especially among muslims. I ask what difference it makes what the koran directs when muslims worldwide are at war with all other religions? A few adherants of other religions chose to resist…to defend themselves, others just endure the violence of muslims as long as they are able. What is absolutely unbelievable to me and many others is the failure of the western media to deal with the violence…the intolerance…the persecution.
If there is any response to this post from a muslim…it will be that the Bible has violence in it too. That may be true but it is also irrelevent as Christians are not killing, burning, raping in order to show muslims how superior their religion is…or to please God with how willing they are to murder their neighbors. What a wonderful god to worship…not.
This situation reminds me of the parallel universe that some of our fellow humans exist in and it doesn’t seem to be getting any improvement. If you westerners want to stick your head in the proverbial sand…ok but when you finally pull it out don’t blame the people who warned you:shrug:
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pismopal, it matters little if the Muslims differ in their understanding. It is same with the christians too.Only in the protestants, there are more than 30,000 sects.
In Islam, the Truth can be found out and the Jihadi bigots can be proved false.

You cannot disown the bibleOT. You belong to Jesus and Jesu belonged to the Jews and they had a book called bibleOT wich is attached will all your bibles. So please see all sorts of violence in that bibleOT too. We Muslims do not say that ws wrong. That was necessary. But you see only one side of the story.That is not fair.

We believe the violent verses of the bibleOT and the loving policy of Jesus too. But what do you o??
 
Immobility of Islamic Women
**Muhammad insisted women are possessions of their husbands. Accordingly, Sharia Law gives the husband the right to forbid his wife from leaving the home. Neither can she leave the city, without being accompanied by her husband or a member of her unmarriageable kin. Amnesty International has observed that in Saudi Arabia, women who walk unaccompanied, or are in the company of a man who is neither their husband nor a close relative, are at risk of arrest, on suspicion of prostitution or other moral offenses. **
 
KingAlfred said:
Immobility of Islamic Women
**Muhammad insisted women are possessions of their husbands. Accordingly, Sharia Law gives the husband the right to forbid his wife from leaving the home. Neither can she leave the city, without being accompanied by her husband or a member of her unmarriageable kin. Amnesty International has observed that in Saudi Arabia, women who walk unaccompanied, or are in the company of a man who is neither their husband nor a close relative, are at risk of arrest, on suspicion of prostitution or other moral offenses. **
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ٌProphet Muhammad never said that women are possessions of their hasbands.

Sharia law appoint some duties for women and some or men. Women has 2 duties: one of them is: Doesn’t leave home without hasband’s permission except she has a emergency condition

Men has many duty as the hasband: provide money, food, house, clothes for family. Give the woman “Mhriah/Sedagh”, etc
Islam appoint their duties on the base of their needs.

Woman don’t must just go out with her husband or a member of her unmmarriageble kin, liar. Woman can go out omlone, if hasband let her or has a emmergency condition. On the other hand hasband must work hardly and provide house, food, clothes for his family and can’t stop giving them mony and if do so musdt go to jail and woman can leave him, but if the woman goes out without hasband permission she doesn’t must go to jail.

And about women Saudi Arabia What arabs do isnot Islam ordred to. They may be radical or bigot. Islam never oredered to arrest alone women.
 
friendship said:
Islam don’t let men to have sex with girls when they are childs. It’s Islam’s law that they girl must be young and after she accepted the marriage they can have sex with eachother
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Then a 9 year old girl is an adult woman indeed!And that’s why your prophet had a 9 year old wife.I am amazed why did your prophet violated his own Islamic law!:rolleyes:
 
planten said:
pismopal, it matters little if the Muslims differ in their understanding. It is same with the christians too.Only in the protestants, there are more than 30,000 sects.
In Islam, the Truth can be found out and the Jihadi bigots can be proved false.

You cannot disown the bibleOT. You belong to Jesus and Jesu belonged to the Jews and they had a book called bibleOT wich is attached will all your bibles. So please see all sorts of violence in that bibleOT too. We Muslims do not say that ws wrong. That was necessary. But you see only one side of the story.That is not fair.

We believe the violent verses of the bibleOT and the loving policy of Jesus too. But what do you o??
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Your response was EXACTLY as I predicted. Instead of addressing muslim violence against other religions…now…today…worldwide…you refer to the “violent language” in the OT. Language is not what I am concerned about…my concern is the violent behavior of
muslims. You understand what I said…you get it…you just have nothing rational to say about it so you are doing…with all due respect…the little muslim dance around the subject. We are wasting each others time with this as I have heard it many times before. The reason I brought the subject of muslim behavior up is because I want you to know that most of us are not stupid…we understand what is going on
 
That’s one thing I’ve learned about Islam from Muslims on here. When it comes to relationships between people, there seems to very little trust or respect on the part of Muslims for anyone else, only “obligations” and “rights”, which are wholly contingent and not freely given. This appears to extend even to fellow Muslims, on many occasions (as with the husband/wife relationship wherein, because the husband is expected to provide for her financially, the wife is apparently to act as though she is in his “kept woman”, for lack of a nicer euphemism to use).

I do not think that this sort of ideal makes for healthy relationships on any level.
 
pismopal said:
Your response was EXACTLY as I predicted. Instead of addressing muslim violence against other religions…now…today…worldwide…you refer to the “violent language” in the OT. Language is not what I am concerned about…my concern is the violent behavior of
muslims. You understand what I said…you get it…you just have nothing rational to say about it so you are doing…with all due respect…the little muslim dance around the subject. We are wasting each others time with this as I have heard it many times before. The reason I brought the subject of muslim behavior up is because I want you to know that most of us are not stupid…we understand what is going on
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pismopal, it appears that you are condemning the present day Muslim violence. I am with you. OKay. But would you also condemn the violence verses and the violent acts of the Jews of the time of Moses?? Let me know please. Why is it that you are only after the Muslim violence?? Have you an antipathy against the Muslims only??

Perhaps you will remember the bloody Mary, the Catholic Queen of England, and remember her violent acts too. I suggest that you do not single out any one. Your message is taken (noted).
 
Same here, but that does not change the ideal according to various Islamic schools of thought on the subject, which is not exactly out of line with what is presented by Muslim posters here (an interesting overview of Islamic Family Law as it is implemented by country is available here, for any curious party). It is important to remember that they do not view what is posted outlining the responsibilities and rights of husband and wife as being negative or limiting as we might. So my point was not to denigrate them by saying that they live this way. I was merely recognizing that they often view the family in different terms than we do, and the resulting structure of the relationships are often not recognizable within the Christian paradigm, which is (generally speaking) not as legalistic.

Which is not to say that there is an inherent problem in acknowledging the rights and responsibilities of the husband and wife. I mean, I certainly do believe that a husband and wife have responsibilities towards one another, but that does not mean for one second that I would find Islamic ideals of marriage at all preferable to those within my own tradition! 👍
 
Meh. I’m not terribly interested in feeding that behavior one way or another. I realize now, reading over my original post, that it may have seemed like I was saying that no Muslim loves or is capable of loving their spouse, children, friends, etc. That is NOT what I meant (and I’m posting this for Planten, et al.'s benefit, here). I only meant that it doesn’t seem to be a prerequisite of the relationship, or if it is, it is rarely talked about in those terms. Posts like those from user “Friendship”, all about obligations, seem rather typical. I seem to remember having gotten into the legalistic Islamic view of interpersonal relationships pretty deeply with Sister Amy in the thread I started shortly after I came asking if Muslims love Christians, if you remember that one. What an eye-opener that was… 😦
 
From what I have read, Muslims have a lot of respect for the Virgin, almost as much as Catholics(and certainly more so than a lot of other Christians),and apparently even believe that Jesus was born miraculously. While Allah seems to have a far different personality than our(the Christian) God, there is definitely some similarity between Islam and Catholicism(it would be, of course, still be blasphemous for us to establish an ecumenical council with any of them). Yet, by comparison, it also shows that the label of “Christian” should not be applied to any group that has even the slightest [positive] relationship with Christ. For instance, if Jehovah’s Witnesses and Christian Scientists, in my opinion, are categorized as such, then would not that make Muslims “Christians,” too?
 
I agree, and Islam definitely has a no. of dangerous beliefs. As for my last statement, I was just saying that there are a no. of groups which deny His divinity(and, thus, saviorship) yet call themselves Christian churches. In a way, Muslims have more of a right to do as such than do they.
 
Yes, without prior knowledge, you certainly have to know how to read the “fine print.” But, Muslims do not have to do anything like that(they seem to be rather frank, anyway) because their religion, in itself, can be very (devilishly) “seductive,” particularily if you are a man. I sincerely admire Muhammad as a great man, though he was probably either brilliantly psychotic, demonically possessed, or one of the greatly liars in history.
Even so, Islam is, indeed, a(if not “the”) siren of Hades.
 
planten said:
pismopal, it appears that you are condemning the present day Muslim violence. I am with you. OKay. But would you also condemn the violence verses and the violent acts of the Jews of the time of Moses?? Let me know please. Why is it that you are only after the Muslim violence?? Have you an antipathy against the Muslims only??

Perhaps you will remember the bloody Mary, the Catholic Queen of England, and remember her violent acts too. I suggest that you do not single out any one. Your message is taken (noted).
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Do I condemn the violent acts of Jews in the time of Moses…do I condemn violent verses in the OT?..NO…I DO NOT CONDEMN THEM! Is this unequivacle enough for you? What the Jews did in the time of Moses is history…not only history but ancient history. You cannot differentiate between what happened in the time of Moses and what is happening in Eqypt to the Coptic Christians…to Christians in Sudan…Phillipines just to name a few places where violence by muslims is affecting people… NOW.
Sir…I don’t mean to be rude but it seems that muslims of whatever stripe…process information in a completely different way from non muslims…you actually scare me a little and I am not easilly frightened…you are spooky:(
 
pismopal said:
Do I condemn the violent acts of Jews in the time of Moses…do I condemn violent verses in the OT?..NO…I DO NOT CONDEMN THEM! Is this unequivacle enough for you? What the Jews did in the time of Moses is history…not only history but ancient history. You cannot differentiate between what happened in the time of Moses and what is happening in Eqypt to the Coptic Christians…to Christians in Sudan…Phillipines just to name a few places where violence by muslims is affecting people… NOW.
Sir…I don’t mean to be rude but it seems that muslims of whatever stripe…process information in a completely different way from non muslims…you actually scare me a little and I am not easilly frightened…you are spooky:(
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May be I did not understand you and your problem. If you are trying to complain about the violent acts of the present day Muslims, I will agree with you. I do not support any kind of terrorism. I know that Muslims are being given wrong lessons about Jihad etc.

If they are doing suicide bombing as a religious duty then I do not support them. I rather condemn them. Suicide is Haraam (illegal) in Islam.

So I condemn their activity if they are doing violent acts for the sake of their religion.

But if they are disturbed and trying to retaliate due to some political activity, then that is a different subject. May be they cannot take it lying down, and they do not believe in offering the other cheek. I hope you understand. I do not support any kind of terrorism from any people. You need not be afraid. I support Love and Peace only, i.e. Love for All and Hatred for None.
 
planten said:
May be I did not understand you and your problem. If you are trying to complain about the violent acts of the present day Muslims, I will agree with you. I do not support any kind of terrorism. I know that Muslims are being given wrong lessons about Jihad etc.

If they are doing suicide bombing as a religious duty then I do not support them. I rather condemn them. Suicide is Haraam (illegal) in Islam.

So I condemn their activity if they are doing violent acts for the sake of their religion.

But if they are disturbed and trying to retaliate due to some political activity, then that is a different subject. May be they cannot take it lying down, and they do not believe in offering the other cheek. I hope you understand. I do not support any kind of terrorism from any people. You need not be afraid. I support Love and Peace only, i.e. Love for All and Hatred for None.
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There is no excuse for persecuting another religion…for theological OR political reasons. Are you telling me that the long suffering Copts, which represent less than 10% of the country are attacking muslims and muslims are just defending themselves?? Please get a grip. This is atypical of dialogue with a muslim…it is chasing ones own tail:(
 
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