The Truth About Islam

[dzheremi]

This is not the first time that Planten has made such ridiculous accusations against Christian minorities in the Muslim-occupied lands, Pismopal. Please don’t give him any more rope, or he may hang all of us with it.

I pray that the Copts will receive justice for this latest blatant and cruel murder, though the track record of the Egyptian courts is not good in this regard. And that is me being far too polite to the bigoted and inhumane Egyptian court system.

In fact, everyone read this, and feel free to respond (especially you, Planten): The Kosheh Martyrs (or, a lesson on what 21 Coptic lives are worth, versus what 1 Muslim life is worth in Egypt)



Forgive them, Father, for they know not what they do.

To the Martyrs in Al-Kosheh

 

[pismopal]

This is not the first time that Planten has made such ridiculous accusations against Christian minorities in the Muslim-occupied lands, Pismopal. Please don’t give him any more rope, or he may hang all of us with it.

I pray that the Copts will receive justice for this latest blatant and cruel murder, though the track record of the Egyptian courts is not good in this regard. And that is me being far too polite to the bigoted and inhumane Egyptian court system.

In fact, everyone read this, and feel free to respond (especially you, Planten): The Kosheh Martyrs (or, a lesson on what 21 Coptic lives are worth, versus what 1 Muslim life is worth in Egypt)



Forgive them, Father, for they know not what they do.

To the Martyrs in Al-Kosheh

I have a friend who is Assyrian and he educated me about the plight of Assyrians…also victims of muslim intolerance and violence…absolutely disgusting. Assyrian history is facinating and proud. We are happy so many chose California for a home.
I have no patience with anyone who attempts to justify these acts of muslim intolerence or to try the moral equivalence routine…either muslim or dhimmi. He is not fooling anyone… sugar coating or not.

 

[planten]

To J C, pismopal and dzhereme, I must have made some grave mistake. That is why you have become hot. I had condemned the terrorism being carried out by any Muslims in the name of religion. I am not aware about any Copt business in Egypt. I did not follow any news about persecution of the copts in Egypt. My post against any kind of violence in the name of religion should have been enough to cover your distress. Yet you were are not happy.

I know such things are going on in some Muslim countries under the protection of the governments. There are some very bad laws which empower the courts to punish the innocent non-Muslims. I have nothing to do with that.

I know there is unrest in South Sudan too. There may be disturbance in Egypt too. I know that Hindus in India are punishing the Muslims and the christians and burning churches in India. But there are no bad laws in India.

So try to understand my posts. You can have your copts. I was more interested in the violence spread by the Muslim terrorists in USA and UK and other parts of the world like Pakistan.

 

[Jay53]

I am not aware about any Copt business in Egypt. I did not follow any news about persecution of the copts in Egypt.

Just read the link in dzheremi’s post! It is HORRIBLE!!

But it does seem to illustrate that fact that Muslim lives are considered more important in that the only one convicted and sentenced was the Muslim who accidentally killed another Muslim. He was sentenced to 13 years in prison. No one has been convicted or sentenced for killing all of the Christians!

 

[friendship]

My friend please write where my notes you can see self contradictory.

And about hasband’s permission at first you must know it is god’s order. God ordered to some things in Bible whitch peoplle may die laughing at him. He ordered to kill animal of Amalek When he wants panish Amalek! and other God’s orders in Torah. So If may God order to us to do something may it looks fuuny but God’s order. If you have any discuassion about it is God’s order or not we can talk about.

In addition Islam didn’t let men to limit women’s freedom. The just have this power let the wife went out or not. But it doesn’t mean they can doesn’t women permission to go out without logical reasons, God will panish such men in doomsday.

And Men must provide house, food, mony, clothes for their wives and their children and women aren’t responsible of any job in house and out of it. Responsibile of all things is the hasband(father)

 

[friendship]

That’s one thing I’ve learned about Islam from Muslims on here. When it comes to relationships between people, there seems to very little trust or respect on the part of Muslims for anyone else, only “obligations” and “rights”, which are wholly contingent and not freely given. This appears to extend even to fellow Muslims, on many occasions (as with the husband/wife relationship wherein, because the husband is expected to provide for her financially, the wife is apparently to act as though she is in his “kept woman”, for lack of a nicer euphemism to use).

I do not think that this sort of ideal makes for healthy relationships on any level.

http://www.andishehaa.com/forums/images/smilies/lol2.gif Do you can do anything except joking?

 

[friendship]

My friend Wife and hasband know eatchother and men let their wives to go out every time witch they want. This law doesn’t mean wife can’t go out without hasband permission but it says when hasband says her “don’t go out” doesn’t go out except she has a emergency condition. absolutly if hasband doubter and doesn’t let her to go out and doesn’t logical reasons wife can complain him in canonry and leave him.

Women can leave home without hasband’s permission but if they don’t do their duty, they’ll be “nashezah” and if canonry accepts that woman is nashezah then hasband don’t must give them until they come back to home.

And about wife-beating I explained befor and said if the man herts his wife, canonry will get amerce from him and give it the wife and woman may leave his hasband.

 

[friendship]

Just read the link in dzheremi’s post! It is HORRIBLE!!

But it does seem to illustrate that fact that Muslim lives are considered more important in that the only one convicted and sentenced was the Muslim who accidentally killed another Muslim. He was sentenced to 13 years in prison. No one has been convicted or sentenced for killing all of the Christians!

What do you want? Islam’s law changed to western law?!

You can find such laws in torah.

 

[dzheremi]

There is NO JOKE, “friendship”, in what I have posted about how Islam ruins lives. And YES, we want Islam’s law changed to Western law if that is what will stop the brutality of Islam against the NATIVE PEOPLE of the land. The incident at al Kosheh is INDEFENSIBLE and it is unfortunately par for the course when it comes to justice or a decent life for Christians in the Muslim-dominated countries. If Egypt is going to be held up as a secular regime (as it often is by those who want to say that these kinds of incidents aren’t the fault of Islam; like somehow it is just a coincidence that such things are happening to Christians across the Islamic world), then maybe it should actually BE SECULAR and actually guarantee equal rights before the law for all of its citizens, regardless of their religion. Copts don’t want to destroy Islam, even though it is clear that Islamists want to destroy them just like they’re destroying the native Christians across the Middle East in places like Iraq, Palestine, etc.

God help me, but reactions like this make me SO mad. OF COURSE WE DON’T WANT ISLAMIC LAW. Nobody has any rights in the Islamic countries because of the evil of these laws and the thinking of the Islam-corrupted judges and courts. They are KILLING our people in Egypt and elsewhere, and we’re supposed to be okay with it when they are not put in prison? What the hell makes you think we’ll just sit here and say “well, I guess it would be wrong to expect them to change and guarantee the rights and safety of all people”. If ANY Muslim in a Western country had to go through FOR ONE DAY what the Copts, Assyrians, and other Christians in the Middle East have to go through EVERY DAY, we would never, ever hear the end of it, and probably jihad would be called to liberate the poor Muslim from his condition. If we treated you for a SECOND the way you apparently feel it is okay to treat us, you would have every right to demand from us restitution for inherently unfair and brutal treatment. That is the right that the Copts SHOULD have for such awful incidents like el Kosheh (which is far from an isolated incident, by the way), but they don’t because the Islamic character of society and the courts strips them of their rights.

 

[pismopal]

What do you want? Islam’s law changed to western law?!

You can find such laws in torah.

Speaking of the muslim pracises that have been mentioned…in Egypt for example…where are the examples in any western country…or westernized country including Israel? You can find such laws in the Torah you say…and how are these laws manifested? I want more people to recognise the intolerance of islam and of any country where shari law prevails. This is the truth about islam.

 

[Contarini]

Do I condemn the violent acts of Jews in the time of Moses…do I condemn violent verses in the OT?..NO…I DO NOT CONDEMN THEM! Is this unequivacle enough for you? What the Jews did in the time of Moses is history…not only history but ancient history. You cannot differentiate between what happened in the time of Moses and what is happening in Eqypt to the Coptic Christians…to Christians in Sudan…Phillipines just to name a few places where violence by muslims is affecting people… NOW.
Sir…I don’t mean to be rude but it seems that muslims of whatever stripe…process information in a completely different way from non muslims…you actually scare me a little and I am not easilly frightened…you are spooky

It isn’t just Muslims who think that time does not change morality. I think this too. If it’s wrong to kill women and children now, it was wrong then.

Edwin

 

[Jay53]

What do you want? Islam’s law changed to western law?!

You can find such laws in torah.

What does your post mean? Do you actually believe that Muslim lives are more important than non-Muslim lives? Did you read that part of the article - where no one has been prosecuted, convicted and sentenced for killing 21 Christians, but 1 man accidentally killed another Muslim and received 13 years in prison?

 

[planten]

What does your post mean? Do you actually believe that Muslim lives are more important than non-Muslim lives? Did you read that part of the article - where no one has been prosecuted, convicted and sentenced for killing 21 Christians, but 1 man accidentally killed another Muslim and received 13 years in prison?

Jay, every life is important to Islam. Islam says “If any one killed one innocent person, it would be like he/she killed the whole mankind.”

“if any one saved one life, it would be like he/she saved the whole mankind.”

Okay.please do not blame Islam for the bad deeds of Muslims because you never take responsibilty for the bad deeds of the present day chrstians. So blame the Muslism as much as you like. I am with you.

At least we Muslims admit that some Muslims are spoiled and doing very bad things like killing. They are doing the worst things, which I may write and post very soon. They are a danger to Islam and Muslims too.

So it is not that you only are suffering. The whole mankind is suffering due to the ignorance of the Muslim Clergy.

Jay, you have given me a chance to post what I was considering today. Thanks. Please wait out…

 

[dzheremi]

Jay, every life is important to Islam. Islam says “If any one killed one innocent person, it would be like he/she killed the whole mankind.”

“if any one saved one life, it would be like he/she saved the whole mankind.”

Well, that is a nice platitude there, Planten, but it means absolutely nothing. At best, we can then say that in the case of el Kosheh “the whole mankind” was killed 21 times over and NOT ONE PERSON did anything about it. But then a Muslim was accidentally killed by another Muslim and the court hastened to mete out “justice” in that case. Where is the humanity in that? It only exists for Muslims. Christians needn’t bother. We only exist to be killed and brutalized by Islam.

Okay.please do not blame Islam for the bad deeds of Muslims because you never take responsibilty for the bad deeds of the present day chrstians. So blame the Muslism as much as you like. I am with you.

Planten, shut up. Really, just shut up. NOTHING in this incident has anything to do with the “bad deeds of the present day Christians”. That is your fall-back position whenever any such incident is pointed out to you, and it just doesn’t mean anything. It is the empty words and hollow excuses of a lying, obfuscating coward.

At least we Muslims admit that some Muslims are spoiled and doing very bad things like killing. They are doing the worst things, which I may write and post very soon. They are a danger to Islam and Muslims too.

Indeed. You should admit to all this. You should admit that there is no justice for Christians anywhere where Muslims are the majority political power, because there is no justice for non-Muslims in Islam, so once the Muslims have asserted themselves (like at el Kosheh, despite the fact that the village is 70% Christian), then it is all over and any conflict is predestined to end in the Muslim’s favor and the Christian’s defeat, because this is the way that the Islamic law is set up. It is not the individual Muslim who can be pointed to as the problem, as there is no shortage of Qur’anic justification for subjugation and destruction of non-Muslims purely on account of their religious identities. Admit this or continue to surrender your credibility with each new character you type.

So it is not that you only are suffering. The whole mankind is suffering due to the ignorance of the Muslim Clergy

.

Indeed once more, but do not let this realization cause you to turn a blind eye to the systematic destruction of the Christian minority in Egypt, as has already occurred in the courts. It is a sick farce to say “we are suffering too” when it is out of the Islamic mosques and scriptures that the inspiration for all of this terrorism comes from. When you suffer, it is due to poor governance and easily manipulated religious sensibilities, which in Egypt seem to carry with them no direct consequence (aside from your own low morals). When Christians in Muslim-conquered suffer from the same (meaning, the poor governance and easily manipulated religious sensibilities of the Muslim majority), it results in massacres and persecutions that, if they happened in any place outside of the Islamic world, would be viewed as absolutely unacceptable human rights violations bordering on genocide. Why Islam seems to be resistant to the criticism it so richly deserves is a mystery to me, but because I am free where my Egyptian brothers and sisters in Christ are not, I must protest your awful sense of moral duality in claiming that you somehow share in our sufferings while at the same time excusing by your pathetic rationalizations the acts that cause those same sufferings.

 

[planten]

dzhereme, your language was filthy. I know you had no reply to what I said. That is why you went out of control with your bad temper. There was no other sensible reply to the bad deeds of those who call themselves as christians and they are sunk deep down in sinful life all over the world.

The whole world, Europe, Asia, Americas are full of your gambling, drinking free sex people. They may not be killing. But is killing the only sin?? You should look to the Truth about Christainity too.

Come to this. Discuss the sin please and do not run after killing. I had denounced the illegal killing of copts. But you went out of control over to your blind faith of sparing your sinful faithless name sake christians. Please look to both sides. I am looking to the Muslim side. You MUST look to the christian side and do not pass that off as a difficult task. At least admit, just once, that you are fed up with the sinful life of most christians. Thanks.

 

[friendship]

Speaking of the muslim pracises that have been mentioned…in Egypt for example…where are the examples in any western country…or westernized country including Israel? You can find such laws in the Torah you say…and how are these laws manifested? I want more people to recognise the intolerance of islam and of any country where shari law prevails. This is the truth about islam.

Exuse me but I don’t think so!

 

[friendship]

There is NO JOKE, “friendship”, in what I have posted about how Islam ruins lives. And YES, we want Islam’s law changed to Western law if that is what will stop the brutality of Islam against the NATIVE PEOPLE of the land. The incident at al Kosheh is INDEFENSIBLE and it is unfortunately par for the course when it comes to justice or a decent life for Christians in the Muslim-dominated countries. If Egypt is going to be held up as a secular regime (as it often is by those who want to say that these kinds of incidents aren’t the fault of Islam; like somehow it is just a coincidence that such things are happening to Christians across the Islamic world), then maybe it should actually BE SECULAR and actually guarantee equal rights before the law for all of its citizens, regardless of their religion. Copts don’t want to destroy Islam, even though it is clear that Islamists want to destroy them just like they’re destroying the native Christians across the Middle East in places like Iraq, Palestine, etc.

God help me, but reactions like this make me SO mad. OF COURSE WE DON’T WANT ISLAMIC LAW. Nobody has any rights in the Islamic countries because of the evil of these laws and the thinking of the Islam-corrupted judges and courts. They are KILLING our people in Egypt and elsewhere, and we’re supposed to be okay with it when they are not put in prison? What the hell makes you think we’ll just sit here and say “well, I guess it would be wrong to expect them to change and guarantee the rights and safety of all people”. If ANY Muslim in a Western country had to go through FOR ONE DAY what the Copts, Assyrians, and other Christians in the Middle East have to go through EVERY DAY, we would never, ever hear the end of it, and probably jihad would be called to liberate the poor Muslim from his condition. If we treated you for a SECOND the way you apparently feel it is okay to treat us, you would have every right to demand from us restitution for inherently unfair and brutal treatment. That is the right that the Copts SHOULD have for such awful incidents like el Kosheh (which is far from an isolated incident, by the way), but they don’t because the Islamic character of society and the courts strips them of their rights.

wow! What a bad relegion! Thank God I live in the country with 6000000 muslims and know many things about them! Doesn’t your relegion says that lie is a sin?

 

[friendship]

It isn’t just Muslims who think that time does not change morality. I think this too. If it’s wrong to kill women and children now, it was wrong then.

Edwin

You are highbrowhttp://www.andishehaa.com/forums/images/smilies/AF2Flowers2a.gif

 

[Jay53]

wow! What a bad relegion! Thank God I live in the country with 6000000 muslims and know many things about them! Doesn’t your relegion says that lie is a sin?

Please clarify. What part of his post is a lie?

 

[friendship]

What does your post mean? Do you actually believe that Muslim lives are more important than non-Muslim lives? Did you read that part of the article - where no one has been prosecuted, convicted and sentenced for killing 21 Christians, but 1 man accidentally killed another Muslim and received 13 years in prison?

No, I never said that Muslims lives are more impotant than non-muslims’ lives. And Quran and Islam never said so.

I didn’t read your post carefully. absolutly if some one kills another one and this be deliberate must be killed, even if the killed be muslim and the dead be a atheist, except the killer has a canonry permission, for example prisoners warders who ordered to kill a killer. If some Islamic countries, goverment doesn’t observe justice it doesn’t mean, Islam ordered them.