The Truth About So-Called "Pedophelia" In The Church

[IHeartBenedict]

I want to use a post of mine from another thread as an OP. I know there’s probably too many threads on this subject already, but I was challenged on this post, and I want to have stats in this OP to back me up. I said:

1. Pedophelia is not the problem in the Church. Sine 98% of these reported (yet unproven) cases took place with boys who were early teens, the real problem is homosexuality. So, we cannont solve the problem unless we know what the problem is. Its homosexuality, NOT pedophelia. (it is still bad, but it is not the same.)
2. You would never know about this because the media portrayed it wrongly. You see, the media PROMOTES homosexality as an alternative lifestyle, so they could not say that homosexality was the problem, lest they show themselves as the hypocrites they are. But, pedophelia was guarenteed to arouse anger, and since the media hates the Church, that is how they reported it.
3. However, on the topic of pedophilia: The highest rate of pedophilia crimes happen within families (step-fathers, uncles, etc.). So those who try to connect it with celibacy make a poor case.
4. The percentage of priests who have been accused (not convicted, just accused) of child abuse, falls below the national average. So why doesn’t the news complain about the problem in America in general? Probably because they are not really concerned about the issue, they just want to bash Catholics.
5. Why are there not similar problems among priests in Africa, Asia, or the Middle East? I mean, if “celibacy” is making them do it (as some claim) or if it a uniquely Catholic problem (which it is not) then it would be happening everywhere, wouldn’t it? So why does it only happen in first-world western nations? Because our culture has become so debased and filthy that all manner of

Now, a woman claimed I was being dishonest, that most of the victims were choldren and therefore the issue was Pedophalia. Well, here are the stats, along with a link to the source:

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/5299/gender.jpg
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/1827/agekn.jpg

Source: John Jay Study (The Nature and Scope of the Problem of Sexual Abuse of Minors by Catholic Priests and Deacons in the United States )

 

[PassingThru]

Congratulations, the Church should make you a spokesman for this issue.

You do an excellent job of reinforcing the current disdain for the Church’s handling of this issue. Way to help push that image. I love a good “blame it on the gays” defense.

Try and work in more “liberal media conspiracy”, and “you have molesters too” in your defense. That way rational people who are simply upset with how the church handled the situation and lacks contrition will get sucked into worthless arguments.

 

[IHeartBenedict]

…I love a good “blame it on the gays” defense…

If you look at the stats, the largest victim group is 12, 13 and 14. That means the underlying disorder of their attackers is homosexualuty, not pedophelia. I am sorry, but that is just a fact…

And yes: Homosexuality is a disorder. As the Catechism states:

2357…Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,140 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."141 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved:

 

[chaunceygardner]

I want to use a post of mine from another thread as an OP. I know there’s probably too many threads on this subject already, but I was challenged on this post, and I want to have stats in this OP to back me up. I said:

1. Pedophelia is not the problem in the Church. Sine 98% of these reported (yet unproven) cases took place with boys who were early teens, the real problem is homosexuality. So, we cannont solve the problem unless we know what the problem is. Its homosexuality, NOT pedophelia. (it is still bad, but it is not the same.)

Not sure where that 98% is coming from but from the actual reports that I have seen, it is not correct. Even if it were, early teens means 13 or 14. That does not automatically imply homosexuality on the part of the victim. 13 and 14 year olds can be abused by older adults just like a 7 or 8 year old. And the cases cited in the reports show that.

1. You would never know about this because the media portrayed it wrongly. You see, the media PROMOTES homosexality as an alternative lifestyle, so they could not say that homosexality was the problem, lest they show themselves as the hypocrites they are. But, pedophelia was guarenteed to arouse anger, and since the media hates the Church, that is how they reported it.

All media?? Wow, I can find a wide range of media on TV, in print, and on the internet that are not anywere close to being in agreement. All media hates the church? Hard to believe, unless there are absolutely no Catholics in the media, and they are all very prejudiced. Doubt that as well. Homosexuality is not the main problem, since sexual abuse occurred with girls as well. The problem was due to a betrayal of trust that Catholics had in their priests and in their Church.

1. However, on the topic of pedophilia: The highest rate of pedophilia crimes happen within families (step-fathers, uncles, etc.). So those who try to connect it with celibacy make a poor case.

A relative will likely have the opportunity to abuse only one or two children. A Priest in certain situations and over time has the opportunity to abuse hundreds and hundreds. And the reports again show that this is indeed what happened in many instances. Totally different ideas here. You cannot equate number of abusers with number of occurrences, or abuse within a family to systemic abuse in an institutional setting.

1. The percentage of priests who have been accused (not convicted, just accused) of child abuse, falls below the national average. So why doesn’t the news complain about the problem in America in general? Probably because they are not really concerned about the issue, they just want to bash Catholics.

Wrong again. If the priest was removed and prevented from continuing his abuse, that would have resolved the issue and prevented many future problems. But they were allowed to continue their pattern of abuse. The issue is that the Church did virtually nothing to stop it or prevent it for decades. They failed miserably, and that is what alarms and upsets us, including a large number of Catholics. The institutional Church has clearly failed in being good shepherds to its flock. How can it be trusted?

1. Why are there not similar problems among priests in Africa, Asia, or the Middle East? I mean, if “celibacy” is making them do it (as some claim) or if it a uniquely Catholic problem (which it is not) then it would be happening everywhere, wouldn’t it? So why does it only happen in first-world western nations? Because our culture has become so debased and filthy that all manner of

The problem itself isn’t uniquely Catholic, but the way it was handled was. The differences may be cultural, as you say. Or the problem may have occurred on other continents as well, but we are just not aware of it yet.

The best path the Church can take right now is to “come clean” and admit there has been a problem, that they have failed in the past, and then take action against any who have been involved. There is a current news story about the Vatican “putting pressure” on an Irish Bishop to resign. This is ludicrous. The Pope should just remove him, he should say the leaders of the Irish church failed and they are being removed from their position. But the leadership in Rome is still not willing to show any backbone. Until they do so and take responsibility for their own failures and the failures of those in positions of authority, more and more Catholics will become disillusioned.

This could be the greatest disaster to befall the Catholic Church since the Reformation, but only if the Vatican continues to keep its collective head in the sand.

 

[IHeartBenedict]

…This could be the greatest disaster to befall the Catholic Church since the Reformation, but only if the Vatican continues to keep its collective head in the sand.

Any crisis that is falsely generated and inflated by the media cannot hurt us. You know, the Catholic Church over its 2000 has withstood persecutions, Caesers, barbarian invasions, Napoleon, Nazism, Hitler, Communism, Stalin… …I highly doubt that a sensationalized news story is going to destroy the Church

Its a problem to be dealt with for sure, but its not a monumental one

 

[PassingThru]

I don’t think it is a good idea to try a rational discussion, undoubtedly. Ill just let you ramble on with your interesting logic. It is entertaining enough on its own.

 

[chaunceygardner]

Any crisis that is falsely generated and inflated by the media cannot hurt us. You know, the Catholic Church over its 2000 has withstood persecutions, Caesers, barbarian invasions, Napoleon, Nazism, Hitler, Communism, Stalin… …I highly doubt that a sensationalized news story is going to destroy the Church

Its a problem to be dealt with for sure, but its not a monumental one

Falsely generated crisis? Sensationalized news story? Not at all; this is the real thing. And as investigations continue and as more revelations occur, we are talking mountain range here, not a bump in the road. It depends on how it is handled; the indications from the Vatican so far are not good.

Inflated by the media? Possibly, but when one considers the whole extent of the problem, and the factual reports that have already been published, from the U.S. to Ireland to Australia, it would seem difficult for the media to keep up with it, much less be able to inflate it. The Church has done that all by itself, thanks to its obstinacy and failure to comprehend the extent and depth of the problem.

 

[dixieagle]

Any crisis that is falsely generated and inflated by the media cannot hurt us. You know, the Catholic Church over its 2000 has withstood persecutions, Caesers, barbarian invasions, Napoleon, Nazism, Hitler, Communism, Stalin… …I highly doubt that a sensationalized news story is going to destroy the Church

Its a problem to be dealt with for sure, but its not a monumental one

“Not a monumental one?” Just exactly where have you been hiding out???

 

[IHeartBenedict]

Any crisis that is falsely generated and inflated by the media cannot hurt us. You know, the Catholic Church over its 2000 has withstood persecutions, Caesers, barbarian invasions, Napoleon, Nazism, Hitler, Communism, Stalin… …I highly doubt that a sensationalized news story is going to destroy the Church

Its a problem to be dealt with for sure, but its not a monumental one

“Not a monumental one?” Just exactly where have you been hiding out???

It seems you did not even read my post that you quoted. I said: “the Catholic Church over its 2000 has withstood persecutions, Caesers, barbarian invasions, Napoleon, Nazism, Hitler, Communism, Stalin… …I highly doubt that a sensationalized news story is going to destroy the Church”.

Are you saying that this issue is on a par with the crisis of the past that I pointed out?

 

[Major_Tom]

Any crisis that is falsely generated and inflated by the media cannot hurt us. You know, the Catholic Church over its 2000 has withstood persecutions, Caesers, barbarian invasions, Napoleon, Nazism, Hitler, Communism, Stalin… …I highly doubt that a sensationalized news story is going to destroy the Church

Its a problem to be dealt with for sure, but its not a monumental one

According to your statistics, there have been over 10,000 children that have been sexually abused.

Is that “falsely generated”?

If not, how many sexually abused children would constitute a “monumental one?”

 

[IHeartBenedict]

According to your statistics, there have been over 10,000 children that have been sexually abused.

Is that “falsely generated”?

If not, how many sexually abused children would constitute a “monumental one?”

I may be wrong, but I think that is 10,000 accusations, not convictions. (Note that the stats say “alleged” victims.) Thats another area in which some priests have gotten the shaft. A mere accusation gets you hauled off. The old “innocent until proven guilty” deal does not apply to priests.

I ask you: Lets say there was some organization that you really despised, and you knew that a mere accusation could get its members hauled off. There are many people who would take advatage of that, especially in these times when there is outright frothing hatred for the Church and for Christianity in general. So I do think the numbers are inflated.

Having said all that, what I was mostly referring to is the media’s portrayal of this as pedophelia when the main cause is homosexuality. That was the basic theme of the OP.

Don’t misunderstand me: If even one youngster is hurt that is a bad thing, and I do not condon it. But the media is taking a bad problem super-sizing it and then mischarachterizing it. That does not help anybody.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Congratulations, the Church should make you a spokesman for this issue.

You do an excellent job of reinforcing the current disdain for the Church’s handling of this issue. Way to help push that image. I love a good “blame it on the gays” defense.

Try and work in more “liberal media conspiracy”, and “you have molesters too” in your defense. That way rational people who are simply upset with how the church handled the situation and lacks contrition will get sucked into worthless arguments.

Well it is the truth. Have you ever read Peter Jenkins book?

 

[hellopeople]

I want to use a post of mine from another thread as an OP. I know there’s probably too many threads on this subject already, but I was challenged on this post, and I want to have stats in this OP to back me up. I said:

1. Pedophelia is not the problem in the Church. Sine 98% of these reported (yet unproven) cases took place with boys who were early teens, the real problem is homosexuality. So, we cannont solve the problem unless we know what the problem is. Its homosexuality, NOT pedophelia. (it is still bad, but it is not the same.)
2. You would never know about this because the media portrayed it wrongly. You see, the media PROMOTES homosexality as an alternative lifestyle, so they could not say that homosexality was the problem, lest they show themselves as the hypocrites they are. But, pedophelia was guarenteed to arouse anger, and since the media hates the Church, that is how they reported it.
3. However, on the topic of pedophilia: The highest rate of pedophilia crimes happen within families (step-fathers, uncles, etc.). So those who try to connect it with celibacy make a poor case.
4. The percentage of priests who have been accused (not convicted, just accused) of child abuse, falls below the national average. So why doesn’t the news complain about the problem in America in general? Probably because they are not really concerned about the issue, they just want to bash Catholics.
5. Why are there not similar problems among priests in Africa, Asia, or the Middle East? I mean, if “celibacy” is making them do it (as some claim) or if it a uniquely Catholic problem (which it is not) then it would be happening everywhere, wouldn’t it? So why does it only happen in first-world western nations? Because our culture has become so debased and filthy that all manner of

Now, a woman claimed I was being dishonest, that most of the victims were choldren and therefore the issue was Pedophalia. Well, here are the stats, along with a link to the source:

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/5299/gender.jpg
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/1827/agekn.jpg

Source: John Jay Study (The Nature and Scope of the Problem of Sexual Abuse of Minors by Catholic Priests and Deacons in the United States )

You don’t consider early teens to be children? Are you serious? This is absurd. Do gay men go around having sex with 14 year olds? No…pedophiles do.

 

[hellopeople]

If you look at the stats, the largest victim group is 12, 13 and 14. That means the underlying disorder of their attackers is homosexualuty, not pedophelia. I am sorry, but that is just a fact…

And yes: Homosexuality is a disorder. As the Catechism states:

2357…Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,140 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."141 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved:

Having sex with a 12 year old doesn’t make you a pedophile? So why would these priests not have sex with gay men legally? Why would they break the law to have sex with children when, in your eyes, they are just attracted to any man? Would it be normal if a 35 year old man had sex with a 12 year old girl? According to you that is completely normal, right? I can’t believe you are actually saying this.

Can you PLEASE explain to me why a priest would do something that would get him thrown in jail for years and years (have sex with a 12-14 year old) when their desires would be just as fulfilled by having sex with a man completely legally? Your logic makes absolutely no sense.

 

[Lancer]

I don’t think it is a good idea to try a rational discussion, undoubtedly. Ill just let you ramble on with your interesting logic. It is entertaining enough on its own.

Do you like apples?..

In the Executive Summary of the John Jay College of Criminal Justice Study
usccb.org/nrb/johnjaystudy/

The total number of priests with **allegations of abuse in our survey is 4,392. The percentage of all priests with allegations of sexual abuse is difficult to derive because there is no definitive number of priests who were active between the years of 1950 and 2002. We used two sets of numbers to estimate the total number of active priests and then calculated the percentage against whom allegations were made.
We asked each diocese, eparchy and community for their total number
of active priests in this time period. Adding up all their responses, there
were 109,694 priests reported by dioceses, eparchies and religious
communities to have served in their ecclesiastical ministry from 1950-2002.
Using this number, 4.0% of all priests active between 1950 and 2002 **had
allegations of abuse
usccb.org/nrb/johnjaystudy/exec.pdf

Make no mistake…everyone in the Catholic Church and everyone of good will outside of formal membership in the Catholic Church… wants/wishes it was a big “0” = 0% of abuse. But that sadly isn’t the case and it probably never will be…in this life.

So…with 4% of our Catholic priests (USA) having allegations of abuse (4,392 allegations) made against them over a 52 year period…is surely a reason to be on our knees begging for mercy…for the Catholic Church in USA…praying especially for the victims and their families…praying for forgiveness and conversion for the actual priest abusers and the bishops who covered it up and / or grossly mishandled the incidents/allegations…but we should also be praying in gratitude…I mean profound gratitude that 96% of our priests have been faithful…through one of the most tumultuous periods of the Catholic Church in the USA and throughout the World!!

Was it a pedophilia or homosexual problem…note this…

Margaret Smith, one of the leading researchers of the John Jay College of Criminal Justice, told the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops at their general assembly in Baltimore that their data so far does not prove homosexuality is a predictor of sexual abuse.
lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/nov/09112008.html

Is John Jay being politically correct…? To me…the real problem no matter how you slice and label the “data”… the problem must be fundamentally identified as …“a lack of fidelity”… starting with me in the pew(s)…the seminary training…their pastors and their brother priests…and their bishops…ending up with the actual priests who committed the abuses!

As far as the media bias…in football terms they are on the field running and playing their hearts out…but unfortunately…most of them have not seen the football since the kickoff…and it has to do, not with bias…but with ineptness and laziness…sloppy unprofessional journalism…up and down their internal chain-of-command…they are not smart or knowledgeable enough to have formed a genuine bias against the Church…in my opinion!

How do you like them apples?

Pax Christi

 

[chaunceygardner]

I said: “the Catholic Church over its 2000 has withstood persecutions, Caesers, barbarian invasions, Napoleon, Nazism, Hitler, Communism, Stalin… …I highly doubt that a sensationalized news story is going to destroy the Church”.

Are you saying that this issue is on a par with the crisis of the past that I pointed out?

Each of the threats you list were external to the Church; this one is deeply internal, and reveals a sickness and decay within. Nothing from the outside may prevail against the Church, but I would not be so confident about something already inside the gates.

Unless the Church (meaning Rome) acts contrite and also takes immediate and appropriate action, it could become that serious. Unfortunately, the Church does not move quickly in most matters. Benedict is part of the old guard, so he has a vested interest in the status quo, and is unlikely to take the strong, public actions that are needed right now.

 

[IHeartBenedict]

Having sex with a 12 year old doesn’t make you a pedophile?

Nope. Pedophelia is sex with a pre-pubescent child.

So why would these priests not have sex with gay men legally?

Maybe some do: Who can say. There are some men who fantasize about young girls. I am sure they are homosexuals who fantasize about young boys.

Can you PLEASE explain to me why a priest would do something that would get him thrown in jail for years and years (have sex with a 12-14 year old) when their desires would be just as fulfilled by having sex with a man completely legally? Your logic makes absolutely no sense.

The same reason that a man would have sex with a 15 year old girl even though it is statutory rape. You can’t see that? That doesn’t make sense to you?

As for the “why”: Why does ANYONE do ANY crazy thing. Some people have disoredred lusts. Why would a man go to Las Vegas and gamble away everything he has? To you and me its nuts. But to him, he can’t help himself.

 

[IHeartBenedict]

Each of the threats you list were external to the Church; this one is deeply internal, and reveals a sickness and decay within…

Oh good Lord.
Less than 1% percent of all priests covering the time span of these allegations have been accused. You call that “a sickness and decay within”? Spare me the drama.

Missionaries around the world help the needy: We have hospices, charities, food banks, outreaches, schools, and wonderful people volunteering in all these fields… … we do all these things daily. Yet you focus one less that 1% of all priests and conclude we are sick and decayed?

You are in La-La land. Stick with facts, and spare me your twisted perceptions. You are just the type of person who fuels false perceptions about the Church.

 

[hellopeople]

Nope. Pedophelia is sex with a pre-pubescent child.

Maybe some do: Who can say. There are some men who fantasize about young girls. I am sure they are homosexuals who fantasize about young boys.

The same reason that a man would have sex with a 15 year old girl even though it is statutory rape. You can’t see that? That doesn’t make sense to you?

As for the “why”: Why does ANYONE do ANY crazy thing. Some people have disoredred lusts. Why would a man go to Las Vegas and gamble away everything he has? To you and me its nuts. But to him, he can’t help himself.

Can I just ask you…is it completely normal for a 35 year old man to have sex with a 12 year old girl?

Even if having sex with a 12 year old is not technically pedophilia, it is obvioiusly not normal and is a different desire than having sex with an adult.

 

[IHeartBenedict]

Can I just ask you…is it completely normal for a 35 year old man to have sex with a 12 year old girl?

Even if having sex with a 12 year old is not technically pedophilia, it is obvioiusly not normal and is a different desire than having sex with an adult.

Great question. Did you know that in the Old West, not all that long ago, many brides were 12 or 13 years old? Were all the old west settlers pedophiles? In some countries even today it is acceptable. Does that mean entire nations today are pedophile nations?

Here’s one for you: Many Theologians say the the Virgin Mary was around 13 or 14 when she became with child.

Like I said, I am NOT excusing the bad behavior of priests. I am just sayng that if a man has sex with a 13 or 14 year old boy, thats not pedophelia, thats homosexuality.