The Truth About So-Called "Pedophelia" In The Church

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Is that the best you can offer?

IHB simply has pointed out several aspects of the scandal discussion that are factually inaccurate, and they are right to do so.

No one here is defending rape in any way so you are just making polemics, which is useless.
The OP is attempting to show that one form of Rape is differant then another. Its does not matter if it was a 6 or 13, its still rape. The Church hiarchy is guilty as charged, they admited what they did was wrong, the priests know what they did was wrong, the Church settled and made programs so for it not to happen again. Why is anyone trying to defend them or make light of it? Accept it as it happened and move on so it does not happen again.
 
If this is not being defended then why were not these rapists put in jail like civilian rapists are?
I’m wondering how many *not yet condemned by a court of law * accused rapists are actually put in jail, clergy or not. So far that I know all that were put to trial were either found guilty and therefore jailed, found innocent and acquitted, or found to be insane and institutionalized. Those who are not yet proved guilty are still innocent, at least in the US. I don’t know why your rules are different for “civilians”.
 
The OP is attempting to show that one form of Rape is differant then another. Its does not matter if it was a 6 or 13, its still rape. The Church hiarchy is guilty as charged, they admited what they did was wrong, the priests know what they did was wrong, the Church settled and made programs so for it not to happen again. Why is anyone trying to defend them or make light of it? Accept it as it happened and move on so it does not happen again.
No, the OP is simply trying to clarify the underlying issue at hand. Claiming that homosexuality and pedestary are different than pedophelia is not claiming that those convicted did nothing wrong, or somehow did something that wasn’t as bad. It’s different, and therefore may require a different reaction. How are you to fix something if you don’t understand what actually happened?
 
No, the OP is simply trying to clarify the underlying issue at hand. Claiming that homosexuality and pedestary are different than pedophelia is not claiming that those convicted did nothing wrong, or somehow did something that wasn’t as bad. It’s different, and therefore may require a different reaction. How are you to fix something if you don’t understand what actually happened?
But the TS is wrong in saying that it was homosexuality that caused priests to molest 12-14 year olds. It is a disorder. 99% of homosexuals don’t do that, so obviously it isn’t homosexuality that caused it. It would be just as valid as saying “A lot of the priests doing the molesting had brown eyes, so we should treat the problem of having brown eyes.”
 
I read that there was a female teacher accused of child abuse with one boy. Shw was sentenced for up to 18 years in jail. But I understand that a priest who was involved with 200 deaf boys did not serve time in jail?
Why didn’t the civil authorities try him? Could it be because he was 80 somrthing, ill and the abuse was many years prior. I’m sure the Church didn’t hide him and refuse to tell the authorities where he was.
 
But the TS is wrong in saying that it was homosexuality that caused priests to molest 12-14 year olds…
I did not say it “caused” it. I said that a man who desires older boys is a homosexual, and they key to solving the problem is to ban homosexuals from the priesthood. I understand that there are lots of homosexuals that only have sex with other grown men. (Of course, that is a mortal sin too, but thats another subject.)
 
I’m sure you have, you’re just not thinking of it right now. Here are some posts pertaining to this instance:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=440943
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=441507
THis is ANCIENT news - over 50 years ago! The man is DEAD - he died back in 1998 and God has judged his soul. Since the time that the Vatican has been made aware of the extent of these problems there have been massive changes in the procedures for dealing with children.

We can’t hold the entire Church hostage to a few bad bishops who used poor judgement in not bringing up civil charges against these bad priests. This was NOT Church policy but only a few metropolitan area bishops not doing their job - any that covered up the crimes should all be forced laicized.

Here are the reforms put in place after the Church realized the extent of the problem. It’s not like the Catholic Church has not lead the way on correcting the problem. Compare that to what the public schools have done to stop the massive sexual abuse of children in public schools - which is NOTHING.

Reforms: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=440812

The abuses started to peak in the 1960s-1980s ( a VERY liberal period in the USA) as information came out. Those have now turned completely around in the statistics and the Catholic Church is the leading entity in curbing child abuse in the world. The Catholic Church has virtually stopped these abuses cold here in the USA. Other countries with Catholics are starting to adapt corrective policies too as they discover these old abuses from generations ago.

Where are the NEW news reports of bad priests in the USA that are offenses committed in the last 5 or 10 years rather than 20-50 years ago? There is an order of magnitude improvement - we are beating this problem. No other institution on the planet can point to the same level of success as the Catholic Church has had. Improvements will be constantly ongoing as we learn more about the deviancy of these sick men and ferret them out and remove them from any active priestly role within The Church.

James
 
lol, not at all. To society (and the law), having sex with 12-14 year olds is pedophilia. You can argue about the definition of pedophilia, but according to the law and 99% of society, these priests are pedophiles. Also, the fact that they are in a position of power over these children and the fact that these children trust the priests makes it that much worse.
The trust makes if very bad. However, I disagree that 99% of soiety would regard it so. When the teacher married her 12 year old student, I didn’t read or hear anyone say it was pedophilia.

How does the medical community define it? Probably like most do.
pedophilia
[ped′əfil′ē·ə]
Etymology: Gk, pais, child, philein, to love
1 an abnormal interest in children.
2 (in psychiatry) a psychosexual disorder in which the fantasy or act of engaging in sexual activity with **prepubertal **children is the preferred or exclusive means of achieving sexual excitement and gratification. It may be heterosexual or homosexual.
It doesn’t matter the definition. It is wrong. People in position of trust are more able to manipulate. That is why the law also does not allow anyone under 18 to enter into contract either.
 
Whatever the word used, I would say it is still abominable and deserving of long jail time.
Exactly, terms don’t matter. Having sex with a 12 year old while you are in a position of power over them is the result of a mental disorder. Normal people do not have these thoughts or urges. Even if the thought crossed the mind of the great majority of people, they would never dream of actually acting it out.
 
But the TS is wrong in saying that it was homosexuality that caused priests to molest 12-14 year olds. It is a disorder. 99% of homosexuals don’t do that, so obviously it isn’t homosexuality that caused it. It would be just as valid as saying “A lot of the priests doing the molesting had brown eyes, so we should treat the problem of having brown eyes.”
Here’s the problem, though.

In many places in the world, the age of consent is 14. In some places (like Spain), the age of consent is 13. In a couple, the age of consent is as low as 12 (such as the Philippines, except for prostitution, which is 18).

On the other hand, the age of consent can be over 18 some places in the US, if there is an authority relationship between the perpetrator and the victim (such as teacher/student)

Does a 25 year old boy who has sex with a 16 year old girl or a 23 year old boy who has sex with a 14 year old girl have the same condition as a 16 year old boy who has sex with an 7 year old girl? There is a nine year difference of age in all cases and in the latter two, the girl is below the age of consent (in the US).

Do the 25 year old and the 23 year old have the same condition as the 16 year old? No. They failed to control their heterosexuality. Our society has determined that it is unacceptable to our mores to allow those kind of relationships, particularly in the case of the 23 year old with a 14 year old. Other societies have differing ideas. Do you realize that the universal Church law (can 1083) would allow both of these couples to be married?

But there is no civilized society in the world that would condone or even tolerate the relationship between the 16 year old and the 7 year old. The genus is distinctly different than that of the other two relationships.

The real difference is that the girls in the first two cases had reached or passed puberty.

There are pedophile priests. And, interestingly enough, the distribution of victims was fairly equally divided between male and female when dealing with pedophile priests. Once the victims pass puberty, though, the percentage of victims that were male shot up. Like with the 25 year old and 23 year old above, it seems that the priests in question were unable to control their homosexuality.

Does that mean that all homosexuals are going to seek out post-pubescent boys? No, not hardly. Nobody is asserting that. But one thing to remember is that the Church has defined homosexuality as being intrinsically disordered. The instinct, normally ordered toward marriage and procreation, cannot ever reach that end in the case of a homosexual (unless he goes against his instinct and marries a woman, despite his inclinations). And we’re not even getting into the heavier spiritual implications of the relationship between Christ and His Church here.

The point is that the homosexual man has far greater temptations as a priest than the heterosexual one. He starts off bearing a cross that none of us have to deal with: a sexuality that is intrinsically disordered in a society that says right is left and up is down. And then he deals in a largely male-oriented faith. (lives in common with other men, trains altar boys, communes with the Knights, and so on). Bearing his cross in that circumstance has got to be tough. But the fact of the matter is that dealing with that cross and then subjecting himself to far more situations that, for him alone, would be near occasions of sin, would, of course, result in more stumbles.
 
I once had a photocopy of an article by a very reliable source where it stated that in Boston (some years ago) when the abuse first became news, a newspaper (Boston Chronicle?) reported over 100 times in one month on the same story - so it is exaggerated is it not? This morning I heard on CNN that only 7% of Americans are Catholic or Christians (can’t remember which because I came into the room as this was being announced). Whether it is Christian or just Catholic Christian is this percentage not incorrect? I know there are 60+ million Catholics in the USA. Would that be 7%?

It is only recently understood that paedophilia is incurable so one can understand that an abuser priest could have been counselled, thought to be cured, and reassigned but this could and should only happen ONCE. I do appreciate that Bishops and many other people outside the Church could have been mistaken about this condition. I want to see a purge. Also, there are people who claim to have been abused but were they? I recall an interview on TV some years ago with an ex-professional golfer I think. He claimed to have been sexually abused for a number of years by his Parish Priest who was also a friend of his family. He said that he trusted this priest and that the priest presided at this wedding!!! If I were abused by a priest he wouldn’t get an invitation to my wedding let alone preside over it!! No, sorry, there are stories I cannot swallow.

As for blaming the Pope this is preposterous. I recall that Ratzinger was always criticized for being uncompromising. He was called a "Rottweiler”. No “we will know them by their fruit” and Pope Benedict is a very holy man - he is a gift from God to the world.

The greater media does hate the Catholic Church and by that I include Hollywood and fundamentalist authors (there are thousands of anti-Catholic books - can anyone name one Catholic author who has written a book attacking non-Catholics - apologetics is not attacking by the way).

Matt 13:24-30 applies. We can expect that the devil will attack the Church. He always attacks those closest to God. When my son was converting to Christianity he experienced terrible attacks by the devil. At the time I didn’t give the devil much thought but my son is not an alarmist, he is a very sane and level headed person so when he told me about this I took note and believed.

The media loves to attack Pius XII for not doing enough for Jews during WWII yet facts are coming out every day that show that he saved between 860 000 - 920 000. He did more than even other Jews to save Jews!! And people still believe the lies!

God bless you all
Cinette:)
 
I am shocked to notice that IHeartBenedict just got banned here at CAF. He seemed like a good guy to me. 🤷

James
 
I am more shocked that we are discussing the finer points of the rape of young boys and girls

Who cares if a heterosexual priest raped a young boy or a homosexual priest raped a young girl or a bisexual priest raped both, young boys and young girls; the question is, why weren’t these animals punished just as other such animals in society are punished. And who came across with the brilliant idea that rapists can be cured and therefore they need to be protected

This is sickening
 
And who came across with the brilliant idea that rapists can be cured and therefore they need to be protected
The psychological “sciences” back in the 70s.

So then is your solution to just shut down the whole place and divide the money up among the lawyers?

Or do you want to really understand what happened so that a real solution can happen?

In the words of Joshua, “Choose you this day…”
 
The psychological “sciences” back in the 70s.

So then is your solution to just shut down the whole place and divide the money up among the lawyers?

Or do you want to really understand what happened so that a real solution can happen?

In the words of Joshua, “Choose you this day…”
Absolute nonsense; we locked up rapists long before the 70s

My solution: identify these animals and hand them over to the authorities; just as we do with anyone else who rapes young boys and girls. Our courts sentence them and lock them up in prisons; not send them on scenic tours

The Pope should apologise unreservedly on behalf of the whole Catholic Church; and not use the kind of language you are using, i.e., “The psychological “sciences” back in the 70s”. I don’t care if the number of rapists in public schools is higher than the number of rapists in the Catholic Church. Are we concerned with the Church here or are we trying to deflect attention; for if we are trying to deflect attention then it ain’t working

I know what happened; priests raped young boys and girls and the Church tried to protect these animals; that is what happened

Protecting them means that we are somehow trying to justify their behaviour. Let us get our heads out of the sands; there were 10,000 victims (allegedly/purportedly/whatever); these are human beings who were raped; making this into a ‘gay’ issue is going to make us (Catholics) not only look like fools but worse
 
Having departed from topic into polemics some posts have been pruned and this thread is now closed.
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