The truth about the fall of the Roman Empire... Are we on the same road?

  • Thread starter Thread starter gypsyfamily
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
40.png
severinus:
Not my area of expertise, but I could not let this go without a comment.

The record of the US in dealing with African-American poverty and disadvantage has been abysmal. I love this country, but our treatment of Blacks has not helped them one bit. The abandonment of southern Blacks following Reconstruction was criminal. African-American illegitimacy rates, once lower than those of the rest of the population, have skyrocketed in the past fifty years. Black fathers have been removed from their place in the family by a misguided welfare system. All this while we are pouring billions of dollars into Great Society programs. Throwing money at Black communities does not work; it perpetuates dependence and the break-up of families.

Most of us do not seem to care about Black-on-Black crime unless it spills into our neighborhoods. And have we reached out to African-Americans to welcome them into the Church?

If we start quoting statistics on African-American crime, we also have to look at its causes.
And on top of all that Margerate Sanger targeted them from the very beginning for birth control and then abortion which is their number one killer:mad: Look at the womens crime rates since birth control and abortion became mainstream:mad: Not just African Americans!The mills are in their neighborhoods,how do you think that plays on their respect for life or the value of even their own?Our own crime statistics are going up too.When you destroy the family the society follows.
 
40.png
YinYangMom:
When - did we ever all
speak the ‘English’ language???
From 1789 when the United States came into existence until the mid-19th century when the U.S. allowed massive immigration from Europe and Asia.
When - did we all
believe in the U.S. Constitution or the Declaration of Independence, considering it was near and dear only to certian people at the time (excluding native americans and african americans, and whatever other culture was here that didn’t fall under the definition of 'U.S. Citizen" as a result of said documents)
Again, all U.S. citizens who fought and struggled against the British in the American Revolutionary War and became part of the newly formed American Republic in 1789, that’s when.
When - did we **all **
know “American History”??? And whose version would you consider valid? The one which depicts the anglos as civilized God-fearing saviors over the heathen savages who were already here? Or the one which shows them as the artisans of genocide they really were?
You seem to have a selective version of history. The American Indians were warring against each other and torturing their fellow Indian captives to death. The Nez Perce would swoop down on the Hopi and kill the men, rape the women, and steal the grain. The Iroqui Indian held the Mohawks in vassalage and kept Seminole Indians as slaves. The Appalachian trail from Maine to Georgia was an Indian highway where the Iroqoi would run down to kill and torture their subject Indians. During the Revolutionary War, the Shawnee were willing allies of the British and would lead murder parties against white settlers in Pennsylvania, and there are many first hand accounts of white settlers depicting their ordeals as prisoners of the Shawnee - murder, rape, and torture. The British paid the Shawnee a ‘pence’ per scalp of men, women, and children.
When - did we all
participate actively in our our civic, economic, and political institutions?? (women and blacks were excluded for years)
American citizens were active in their civil duties from 1789 onward, but to a lesser extent as the U.S. population increased.
When - did we ever safeguard and respect each and every
indiviual family unit??? (racial discrimination comes to mind, as in housing discrimination)

I too am a victim of racial discrimination; I didn’t get hired by a major university here in the Boston area due to affirmative action, they don’t hire ‘white’ people!
Today the family unit is under direct attack with the court approval of homosexual marriage. It is not the court’s responsibility to decide what constitutes a marriage, and to circumvent the vote when the statehouse votes against homosexual ‘mock’ marriage is simply a blatant act of dictatorship.
When - have the civil rights of** each**
American citizen ever been safeguarded??? (KuKluxClan comes to mind)
Certainly not with forced busing, affirmative action, minority quotas, and now homosexual marriage! Not only does the KKK come to my mind, but so does the Black Panthers, the Blackstone Rangers, the American Indian Movement, the Students for a Democratic Society(SDS radicals), CPUSA (Communist Party of the USA) and the ACLU all which seem to care more for the civil rights of non-white people! P.S. the Ku Klux Klan is not a national movement and came into being during the reconstruction South.
Seems to me we’re still struggling with each of those issues you seem to believe were resolved at one point in time from which
we have begun to decline. So when did this Eutopian version of the United States of America exist???
An American Utopia has never existed, but the U.S. has drifted further and further away from the intention of the founding fathers as time goes on.
 
Bobby A. Greene:
An American Utopia has never existed, but the U.S. has drifted further and further away from the intention of the founding fathers as time goes on.
On that, we can agree.
 
An American Utopia has never existed, but the U.S. has drifted further and further away from the intention of the founding fathers as time goes on.
So you can see a plausible explanation of what happened to Rome, even as supplied by Gibbons, that Rome had drifted further and further away from the intention of its founding Patricians as time went on, and after 700 years Rome lost its identity as ROME, and finally, its very existance to politcal apathy, economic turmoil, and mass immigration (barbarian invasions, 2nd class citizens given equal rights, colonials demanding citizenship, etc.).
 
Bobby A. Greene:
So you can see a plausible explanation of what happened to Rome, even as supplied by Gibbons, that Rome had drifted further and further away from the intention of its founding Patricians as time went on, and after 700 years Rome lost its identity as ROME, and finally, its very existance to politcal apathy, economic turmoil, and mass immigration (barbarian invasions, 2nd class citizens given equal rights, colonials demanding citizenship, etc.).
That can be considered one plausible explanation, among many.

As for our nation’s decline, I still lean toward the wide acceptance of contraception as the beginning of most recent labor pain…I also hold with my theory that we are not in a decline as much as we are in a growing pain…struggling…but certainly not lost by any means.
 
40.png
PaulKorb:
Check out “A Republic, Not an Empire” and your question will be answered.

amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/089526272X/002-7610563-8636010?v=glance
The liberals and the anti-Bush extremists who call America an empire have no idea what is an empire. Dick Cheney was correct when he said that if the U.S. were an empire, we would certainly occupy a lot more of the Earth’s territory than we do now.

How does justifiably invading two small countries, Afghanistan and Iraq, in a state of war against America constitute becoming an Empire? There is no comparison with the permanent expansion and conquest of ancient Rome with the temporary invasion of sponsor states of terrorism who attacked the U.S.!
 
This country won’t fall because of gay marriage or abortion or anything like that.

It will fall because of our own national pride. People think “we’re Americans- we could never be occupied by another country” “we’re Americans- the rest of the world’s success and security depends on our success as a country”. American tourists go into other countries and assume that others can speak their language, and that they exist many to cater to their desires.

What was once the biggest Empire in the world is now mostly a desert full of nomads in the middle of Asia. (Nothing against the people of Mongolia- there just isn’t a whole lot there, and from what I understand, the land is pretty sparse)

Other than the things we use every day that are from ancient Rome, the Ancient Roman empire has some cultural reminders in Italy, and a few other European countries, but that’s pretty much all that’s left of it.

Ancient Greece is pretty much the same way.

People used to say “the sun never sets on the British empire”- Britain is still powerful, but it isn’t the empire it used to be- that’s for sure.

If these great empires can fall, rest assured, the US can fall just as easily.
 
40.png
m134e5:
People think “we’re Americans- we could never be occupied by another country” “we’re Americans- the rest of the world’s success and security depends on our success as a country”.
Unchecked or misguided state approved massive immigration is *de facto * the same as being occupied by several different countries.

Seven years ago Israel would have ceased to exist because the number of Arabs entering Israel would have outnumbered Israeli citizens, Israel would have become in fact an Arab state.

That is one of the factors which contributed to the internal decay and demise of ancient Rome, massive immigration from the Germanic barbarians, Rome lost its identity. Rome became something else in circa 476 A.D., Rome became not-Rome!
 
This country is as strong as ever, but there is evidence of some erosion. And long term it may all be an illusion. This country is vulnerable to corruption from within, and economically it is a basket case. When our leaders can be bought or bribed, we become subject to self interest and greed.

When foreign governments or corporations can buy up American companies (assets) and property, we can literally be owned by a foreign power. Our economy is dominated by two huge outflows of cash. Cash going out of the country because our balance of payments is so dismal, and cash flowing out of the government because our deficits are so huge and our national debt continues to grow out of control.

Either one puts us on very shakey ground. Long term, the cash flowing out the the country, gives foreign companies and foreign governments enormous buying power. They can use this to buy up land or american companies, either one of which can be devastating.

Meanwhile the national debt cripples our economy. It is like a huge anchor on our ability to build our infrastructure, address social problems, and other issues (fighting terrorism, etc). One third of our budget goes into servicing the interest on the national debt, another third pays for retirement to our senior citizens, and less than one third goes into running our government and the vast majority of that goes to national defense.

If our government budget were a household budget, we would have had to declare bankruptcy years ago. The only reason we are still afloat is because the government can continue printing money ‘almost indefinitely’.

I am amazed that the house of cards has not collapsed already. When it does, watch out. It will not be a pretty picture.
 
Has anyone else noticed this similartiy between ancient Rome and the U.S.? **Gladitorial combat ** as a spectator sport!

Rome did not have gladitorial combat when Rome first started out as a collection of small villages about 350 B.C. Gladitorial combat as a spectator sport developed over a two hundred year period in Rome, it began as funerary rites and grew into a bloodsport over time.

The U.S. has televised professional boxing and professional wrestling so you don’t have to go to a collesium to witness a bloodsport. Now they’ve up the ante with realistic Ultimate Fighting Championships and bloody mixed martial arts PRIDE fights. About twenty years ago Phil Donahue wanted to publicize live executions of criminals on his show for your entertainment. He actually petitioned the courts and congress for permission to video the condemned being gassed, electrocuted, or shot (firing squads are used in Oklahoma). He was denied permission. The U.S. came very close to another step to Roman gladitorial games.

Today you can view computer graphics of dismemberment and other forms of violent deaths in living color on your home T.V. in graphic detail very similar to what the Romans purchased tickets to see in the coliseum.

Personally I think the U.S. has become more analogous to ancient Rome than some historians like to admit.
 
40.png
wcknight:
This country is as strong as ever, but there is evidence of some erosion. And long term it may all be an illusion. This country is vulnerable to corruption from within, and economically it is a basket case. When our leaders can be bought or bribed, we become subject to self interest and greed.

When foreign governments or corporations can buy up American companies (assets) and property, we can literally be owned by a foreign power. Our economy is dominated by two huge outflows of cash. Cash going out of the country because our balance of payments is so dismal, and cash flowing out of the government because our deficits are so huge and our national debt continues to grow out of control.

Either one puts us on very shakey ground. Long term, the cash flowing out the the country, gives foreign companies and foreign governments enormous buying power. They can use this to buy up land or american companies, either one of which can be devastating.

Meanwhile the national debt cripples our economy. It is like a huge anchor on our ability to build our infrastructure, address social problems, and other issues (fighting terrorism, etc). One third of our budget goes into servicing the interest on the national debt, another third pays for retirement to our senior citizens, and less than one third goes into running our government and the vast majority of that goes to national defense.

If our government budget were a household budget, we would have had to declare bankruptcy years ago. The only reason we are still afloat is because the government can continue printing money ‘almost indefinitely’.

I am amazed that the house of cards has not collapsed already. When it does, watch out. It will not be a pretty picture.
I think you’re more on the mark than any of us so far on this.
The fact that most of our banks are foreign owned is frightening.
Good post. 👍
 
40.png
gypsyfamily:
When I was in college I took a class that explained the fall the of Roman Empire. This will be short! (I promise). Besides all the gluttoney, killing of humans in an arena for sport, promiscuity among heterosexuals I was taught that the BIGGEST reason for the fall was…HOMOSEXUALITY!! Homosexuality was considered the normal acceptable way of life at the end. It lead to confusion lack of law and order as there was no order in their own lives except in the Christian Underground.

SOMEONE PLEASE RESEARCH THIS AND GET IT OUT THERE. I am not eloquent enough to do it.

George Weigel, Pope Benidict XVI, Scott Hahn, Dr. and Lisa Popcheck(forgive the spelling if it’s wrong), Drew Mariani where are you!?!?!?!
I remember back in the 1960’s there was a team of comedians named Hudson and Landrey that recorded a reading called “the Fate of the Mightiest Nation” They went allthrough this long list of things that caused the ‘mighiest nation’ to fall. While listening you thought you were hearing the sins of the USA and then at the very end they hit you with the punch line. They were talking about the Roman Empire which fell in 470 AD! I don’t know if their recording is still available but it would be worth listening to. Very chilling! Glenn Lego
 
Bread and circuses.

That’s what the Roman Empire became all about at the end and that’s what our culture is all about. Materialism and vulgar/violent enterntainment (aka consumerism and spectacle).
 
40.png
gypsyfamily:
When I was in college I took a class that explained the fall the of Roman Empire. This will be short! (I promise). Besides all the gluttoney, killing of humans in an arena for sport, promiscuity among heterosexuals I was taught that the BIGGEST reason for the fall was…HOMOSEXUALITY!! Homosexuality was considered the normal acceptable way of life at the end. It lead to confusion lack of law and order as there was no order in their own lives except in the Christian Underground.
Economics brought down Rome. They overextended themselves, taxed their people into a lather, and pretty much mismanaged affairs of state. We really don’t know that homosexuality was accepted as “normal” so much as it was tolerated. 2,000 years later the gay community is still trying to be accepted as “normal” and they are still being met with resistence, though we seem to be in a cycle of increased tolerance.
 
Why did Rome fall?

The rich and noble class used “lead” pipes. ‘Lead’ causes birth defects and mental illness. The upperclass in Rome had vast amounts of birth defects, deaths and mental illness. Just study the facts in history on this topic. The upper class was dying off while the lower class was thriving and growing. An imbalance exisited and thus the Empire of Rome began to tumble.

Heard of any leaders of Rome that seemed to do insane things for no reason? Dah! Now you may have an answer, lead pipes.

Another thing happened at the same time. Military tattics changed and the Roman army did not keep up.

Last, an easy life for those that had it. Why work when you can just take the easy road in life. Sounds like the USA here too doesn’t it? Why work when we can be on welfare? Why have a 6 day work week when we can have a 5 or 4 day work week? Why train hard in the military when we can just cut back a bit and play more?

Big topic here and I only added a bit to the list of why.

Gods peace,
 
Bobby A. Greene:
Rome decayed from within. The ruling class became indifferent, second class citizens (women & slaves) got equal rights, and immigration was unchecked. Rome simply lost its national identity.

Rome was a nation of engineers, soldiers, lawyers and multi-religions which describes what the U.S. has become. The U.S. is also suffering from an indifferent ruling class, second class citizens gaining equal rights (homosexuals, etc.), immigration into the U.S. is unchecked, and the U.S. has a multitude of religions. The United States of America is also losing its national identity. America is going the way of Rome.
I agree completely.

Gracie
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top