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inocente
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Incidentally, happy Halloween from the Spanish chapter of Galileo ‘R’ Us.My answer is post 96. Show me the color of your green, then we will look at other issues.
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Charlemagne_III
Guest
Check the Soviet Union section of this article and learn some history.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_atheism#Soviet_Union
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weller2
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Appeal to authority is a logical fallacy. Besides, I am not going to abolish my quasi-anonimity to show my credentials, and even if I did, there would be no way for you to verify them – so, what’s the point?
Because thanks to the wonders of bureaucracy we have proceedings from the case and not once these mention independent evaluation of observational evidence. The actual charge levelled against Gallileo was that pro-heliocentrism arguments in Dialogo are… too convincing.
Sorry, but do you actually know what is in Kepler’s book?
Actually, non-observation of stellar parallax is addressed in Dialogo, by means of a calculation showing that the effect is smaller than the available measurement resolution:
Galileo:
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Charlemagne_III
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I don’t have any of my high school and college texts as I threw them out when I retired.
I do, however, remember not so much lies told in texts, as textbooks slanted in favor of anti-religious sentiments. I regularly taught from one textbook that gave samples of great essay writing. Clarence Darrow’s essay “Why I Am an Agnostic” remained in the textbook for many years. I waited in vain for an essay titled “Why I Am a Catholic” by G. K. Chesterton to be added for balance. It never appeared, of course, Nor did any essay by any other religious writer on a comparable theme ever appear.
The following articles develop the same theme. So there are various ways to lie. One of them is to hide opposing views from the students. The slant is always in favor of agnostic or atheistic writers. And the professors by their selection of material arrange it that way.
blog.speakupmovement.org/university/thought-reform/neutrality-my-foot/
blog.speakupmovement.org/university/thought-reform/we-hate-you-now-give-us-your-kids-so-that-we-can-turn-them-against-you/
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weller2
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Please follow your own advice and check the primary sources. A god-like worship of Stalin is well documented. Take, for example, this poem published in Pravda in 1936:
O Great Stalin, O leader of the Peoples,
Thou who didst give birth to man,
Thou who didst make fertile the earth,
Thou who dost rejuvenate the Centuries,
Thou who givest blossom to the Spring,
Thou who movest the chords of harmony,
Thou splendour of my Spring, O Thou,
Sun reflected in a million hearts
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Charlemagne_III
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No it isn’t, unless the authority is a false authority. It is a method of persuasion, not a fallacy
We appeal to authority all the time. Every court case that goes to the Supreme court is an appeal to authority, and every subsequent citation of the Courts decision is a subsequent appeal to authority.
Every time a teacher teaches from a book, he is appealing to the authority of the expert who wrote the book. Unless they are false authorities, this is not a logical fallacy, but a method of persuasion.
Sometimes in life we have to consult the experts and hope they are right.
If the experts are wrong, then our appeal to authority in THAT case is a logical fallacy.
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Charlemagne_III
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Please don’t confuse “god-like worship of Stalin” with worship of a real God.
God is not dead, but Stalin is.
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weller2
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No - it is a fallacy, simply because a recognized authority on the subject can be wrong. Cf. Einstein’s views on quantum mechanics and static Universe.
Appeal to authority is useful if you are unable to investigate or understand the evidence. However, regarding the Gallileo’s case, enough original documents are on the Web that you can read them and form your own opinion.
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weller2
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Again – my point is that USSR under Stalin cannot be really considered atheist, because Stalin was the object of public worship. Anti-religion activities can be therefore seen as elimination of competing cults.
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Charlemagne_III
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You appear to live in a fairyland of logic?
Stalin was not God, and nobody thought of him as such. You apparently have read little literature about atheism being the official philosophy of the Soviet Union.
And I doubt that you’ll look it up by googling “atheism soviet union”.
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Charlemagne_III
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But if he’s not wrong, it’s not a fallacy.
I would consider it a logical fallacy to consult a podiatrist about my teeth.
I would not consider it a fallacy to consult my dentist.
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Linusthe2nd
Guest
It is gratifying to know that neither you, nor Dr. Taffey, nor Weller could find documation supporting your claim that the Inquisition burned a man alive for " owning a Bible printed in English, " providing the who, when, by which specific authority, etc. The reason that I don’t think you can is that there were Bibles printed in Engtlish and other vernacular languages before the Inquisition. Srike oneNo point continuing with the thread then, as you appear to have admitted your OP claim is bogus.
You can always start another thread to “look at other issues” - otherwise it would be a novel experience to find someone trying to derail their own thread.
.As to your doubts to the assertion of the O.P., it is common knowledge among Catholic apologetic circles. I’ll try to document them when I see them and I will make sure you and Dr. Taffey get the e-v-i-d-e-n-c-e. Right now I’m after another rabbit! See if you can find it, it will put you deep into real philosophy
.Linus2nd
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Linusthe2nd
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So glad you also have a chapter, sure seems like the book publishers doIncidentally, happy Halloween from the Spanish chapter of Galileo ‘R’ Us.
.Don’t celebrate it myself, the little devils just got too demanding. Once when my Mon was still living, they threw the apples she gave them away with appropriate insults ( I live in a rough part of town ). So now I turn off the lights and lock the door. The little devils can get their apples elswhere. Besides, people today are just hunting lawsuits. Of course they would be wasting there time with me, since I have nothing. But it would be a great hassel.
Linus2nd
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Linusthe2nd
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Here is some indirect evidence. It tells you what view point is being emphasized by those who make a living in supplying public schools with educational material.
discoveryeducation.com/teachers/free-lesson-plans/galileos-dialogue.cfm
" Discussion Questions
- Explain the significance of Galileo’s observations of Jupiter and its moons, and evaluate Galileo’s contributions to science and history.
- Discuss how the Copernican system threatened Church doctrine, and why the Dialogue of Galileo—a devout Catholic—offended the Church.
- Debate Galileo’s decision to recant his heliocentric views. Do you consider this cowardice, or did Galileo have no choice? What would you have done in his situation?
- Discuss why students of world history need to study Galileo, the Catholic Church and its Inquisition in order to understand the Scientific Revolution, the Protestant Reformation, and the subsequent Enlightenment (Age of Reason). "
Linus2nd
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abucs
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Hello weller2,
my understanding of the Soviet Union was that they killed 200,000 priests and destroyed 40,000 churches. They ran atheist propaganda including teaching atheism at school and stopped children attending religious worship or ceremonies.
My understanding is the level of hostility towards Christianity changed to adapt to changing circumstances faced by the state. It waned and strengthened depending on the need of the state.
I think “worship like attitudes” towards Stalin can be explained because of the failures of atheism as a state religion. I think the French Revolution ran into the same problem. They both ended up trying to mimic the Christian church because the atheist ideology failed to create community and engaged ethical citizenship.
my understanding of the Soviet Union was that they killed 200,000 priests and destroyed 40,000 churches. They ran atheist propaganda including teaching atheism at school and stopped children attending religious worship or ceremonies.
My understanding is the level of hostility towards Christianity changed to adapt to changing circumstances faced by the state. It waned and strengthened depending on the need of the state.
I think “worship like attitudes” towards Stalin can be explained because of the failures of atheism as a state religion. I think the French Revolution ran into the same problem. They both ended up trying to mimic the Christian church because the atheist ideology failed to create community and engaged ethical citizenship.
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Linusthe2nd
Guest
Gee, here is another example, imagine that
.education-portal.com/academy/lesson/galileo-the-telescope-the-church.html#lesson
I hope you notice the attempt not only to portray the Church as wrong and Galileo right, but it is obvious form the inflection of the presenter’s voice that the student is to regard the Church as rather foolish and old fashioned.
Again, the message is supposed to be that the Church is opposed to science and that it, indirectly at least, threw a road block up which prevented the progress of science. somithing which cannot be maintained because England, the Scandanavian Countries and much of Northern Europe were deep into the Reformation. The Church certainly could not have halted the progress of science in these areas of the world.
Another lesson the students were supposed to learn was that the Inquisition was something, if not evil, certainly uncivilized. Never mind that in Reformation England the Church was being dispossessed absolutely, Catholics were being marginalized into obscurity, bishops and priests and loyal sympathasizes were being hung, drawn, and quartered. Oh yes, women as well as men. And things weren’t much better in the Netherlands, the Scandanavian countries, Northern Germany, etc.
But boy, oh boy, the Church was really evil, so we will just forget about the thousands who perished in the Reformation, the spiritual genecide committed against citizens of the Catholic faith.
Well, if these things are going to be taught let us be brutally honest about both sides.
There, I haven’t shown you textbooks, which I don’t have access to, but I have shown you what those who make a living supporting the public education enterprise are selling the public schools.
Do I need to find other examples?
Linus2nd
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Linusthe2nd
Guest
Unless you are willing to accept William A. Wallace O.P. as an authority on Galileo I see no reason why we should accept your as an authority. I readily admit that I am not, that does not mean I cannot detect bias when I see it. You see ordinary people like me are bound to support an authority, for we have not choice. But I do demand something of my authorities.
Linus2nd
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inocente
Guest
I think you’re confusing agnostic with atheist. Clarence Darrow’s essay begins with “An agnostic is a doubter. The word is generally applied to those who doubt the verity of accepted religious creeds of faiths. Everyone is an agnostic as to the beliefs or creeds they do not accept. Catholics are agnostic to the Protestant creeds, and the Protestants are agnostic to the Catholic creed.”.
If essays on “Why I Am [insert name of belief here]” were added for balance, that would make for a humungous doorstop of a textbook.
Four out of every five Americans are religious, yet from what you say none of them write textbooks, none of them work in the media, none of them serve on school councils, none of them ever bothers to vote… all are held hostage by some nameless minority.
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inocente
Guest
It is gratifying to know that neither you, nor Dr. Taffey, nor Weller could find documation supporting your claim that the Inquisition burned a man alive for " owning a Bible printed in English, " providing the who, when, by which specific authority, etc. The reason that I don’t think you can is that there were Bibles printed in Engtlish and other vernacular languages before the Inquisition. Srike one
I didn’t make any claim about the Inquisition. You seem intent on derailing your own thread with off-topic points. Why don’t you start a separate thread if you want to discuss that?btw it’s Thomas More, not Thomas Moore.
Then people brought little devils to Jesus for him to place his hands on them and pray for them. But the disciples rebuked them. Jesus said, “Let the little devils come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.”
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inocente
Guest
No, I see no bias. How would you change the questions given the course standards (“Understands how European society experienced political, economic, and cultural transformations in an age of global intercommunication between 1450 and 1750”, etc.)?
This is another private company, this time offering courses for a fee. If you don’t like the offering then buy elsewhere. Both this and your other example are a long long way from textbooks used in schools and universities. Textbooks are validated and selected, internet courses are not subject to any standards at all, just like blogs anyone can make them up.Gee, here is another example, imagine that
education-portal.com/academy/lesson/galileo-the-telescope-the-church.html#lesson
I hope you notice the attempt not only to portray the Church as wrong and Galileo right, but it is obvious form the inflection of the presenter’s voice that the student is to regard the Church as rather foolish and old fashioned.
But also remember that JPII himself said the Church as wrong and Galileo right:
“Thanks to his intuition as a brilliant physicist and by relying on different arguments, Galileo, who practically invented the experimental method, understood why only the sun could function as the centre of the world, as it was then known, that is to say, as a planetary system. The error of the theologians of the time, when they maintained the centrality of the earth, was to think that our understanding of the physical world’s structure was, in some way, imposed by the literal sense of Sacred Scripture.” - L’Osservatore Romano N. 44 (1264) - November 4, 1992
As you’ve not provided any examples of textbooks up to now then yes, unless you want your OP claim to crash and burn.
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