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Tmaque
Guest
I couldn’t agree more with your approach and conclusions.
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Tmaque
Guest
I take a very active part in educating LDS people when they are interested in learning about the Catholic church. Do I actively proselytize? No, I do not.
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tkdnick
Guest
That’s what I meant I guess…actively proselytize. Guess you’ve got the help (as does Paul) of being Ex-LDS and being able to come at it from that angle as Paul posted earlier.
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Ahimsa
Guest
How dare you even mention Bach and Da Vinci Code in the same sentence!?
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Katholikos
Guest
Joseph Smith’s purpose was not to point people back to the real Jesus, of course, but the one of his fertile imagination; the one God among three earth gods; the one among who-knows-how-many-gods of the universe. A god that was created through sexual intercourse of another god and goddess.
Joseph Smith was not a religious genius, but he was a genius alright. He was a con man extraordinare, who had a “revelation” from God when he started his new “religion” and another one every time he wanted to add or change something (like another wife, even if she were already married to another man). And, in the case of Palmer and millions of others, Smith is still conning people from his grave.
If archaeology and the hard science of DNA will not dissuade people from believing Mormonism, there’s not much hope that ordinary logic will! They are determined to believe it.
JMJ Jay
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Asa_Ben_Judah
Guest
Well you all screwed up BYU BOY ~ There are none so blind as those who will not see.
I do not know why this contributor ever bothered trying to explain his faith, the rudeness and uncharitableness of some contributors determined to drown out his message is breathtaking.
I do not know why this contributor ever bothered trying to explain his faith, the rudeness and uncharitableness of some contributors determined to drown out his message is breathtaking.
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Malachi4U
Guest
Don’t have a spaceship or rocketship ready to take you to visit other gods? Get the cheap ticket and click below to cruise and see where the gods live and what they do:
nowscape.com/mormon/kolob1.gif
See some more here:
nowscape.com/mormon/facsimilies.htm
utlm.org/faqs/faqgeneral.htm
nowscape.com/mormon/kolob1.gif
See some more here:
nowscape.com/mormon/facsimilies.htm
utlm.org/faqs/faqgeneral.htm
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amazedGrace
Guest
my understanding is that Joseph Smith was killed in a shoot out. I am suprised a ‘man of God’ let himself be caught up in such an incident. I also question the mormon claim that elephants were in north america at one time. And another thing I find hard to fathom is why Joseph Smith ‘translated’ a tablet of hyrogliphics which of course turned out to be a trick played on him by others who were out to prove he could not read hyrogliphics as he claimed. I have questions about the book of mormon and the amount of times it has been changed to make things ‘line up’ and more believable. Its also known that Brigham Young upon settling in Utah made much money through insisting that the other mormons bought all materials etc through him alone. Not a very honest christian like trait I think.
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oat_soda
Guest
the problem is you can’t reason with mormons. they live in a fantasy because they base their faith on feelings and not a rational decision based on observation of the world. it’s really pointless to argue with them as they will always fall back on “you can’t prove anything”.
also, if we can’t make fun of mormons, what can we make fun of? they are here on an orthodox catholic website and are therefore open to ridicule. people need to lighten up and stop being so sensitive and effeminate. nobody is forcing mormons to post here. i’m sure there is a catholic website for over sensitive people and dissenters that will be more sympathetic to their fantasy of a religion.
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tkdnick
Guest
Are you serious??? That is really an LDS chart???
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Jodi
Guest
I am very much enjoying this thread as it really speaks to me at this time. I appreciate the loving way the two beliefs are being contrasted. Most places I go I just find pages of personal attacks on both sides. I would like to congradulate the moderators on their abilities to keep this thread so clean.
So about me I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. My husband joined the church we got married in a temple and have three beautiful children. He has felt a call from God to investigate the Catholic church. He is currently investigating through RCIA classes. At first I was very upset about this. But through hours of my own prayer and consultation with my own father who is also of my religion, I have felt the impressions to be at peace that this is part of God’s plan for my family. That I need to love and support my husband at this time.
This impression is confusing for me because I don’t understand it but I so seldom understand where God is leading me that I am okay with walking in the dark as long as I know I am following him.
I have always loved the Catholic church. I even currently sit on a Catholic Community Services Board, and have many positive encounters with its members. So I am comforted by the fact that my husband is investigating a church that I have some deep respect for. I don’t believe I would be as calm about him becoming JW, or anything else.
So I am in a weird place. I still believe in the things I have been taught and have lead me to Christ over the years of my life. I know that God is leading my husband. So where does that put me? And until I recieve a similar call or he gets called back, it brings a gap in faith in my home that I never wanted.
Sorry for the longish post I am still trying to work this all out in my own mind with God’s assistance. I will continue to read and learn through my scripture study and by watching this site.
Oh and as far as Joseph Smith being killed in a gun fight. I think you need to learn some history. He was in Jail when a mob attacked the jail to take his life. The guard gave the prisoners access to fire arms then fled for their lives. This is definately not a case of him searching for a showdown. I have always found some comfort in the fact that they defended their lives when they were murdered in a jail cell. I do not find the defense of ones life when murderer’s attack a stain against someones name.
So about me I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. My husband joined the church we got married in a temple and have three beautiful children. He has felt a call from God to investigate the Catholic church. He is currently investigating through RCIA classes. At first I was very upset about this. But through hours of my own prayer and consultation with my own father who is also of my religion, I have felt the impressions to be at peace that this is part of God’s plan for my family. That I need to love and support my husband at this time.
This impression is confusing for me because I don’t understand it but I so seldom understand where God is leading me that I am okay with walking in the dark as long as I know I am following him.
I have always loved the Catholic church. I even currently sit on a Catholic Community Services Board, and have many positive encounters with its members. So I am comforted by the fact that my husband is investigating a church that I have some deep respect for. I don’t believe I would be as calm about him becoming JW, or anything else.
So I am in a weird place. I still believe in the things I have been taught and have lead me to Christ over the years of my life. I know that God is leading my husband. So where does that put me? And until I recieve a similar call or he gets called back, it brings a gap in faith in my home that I never wanted.
Sorry for the longish post I am still trying to work this all out in my own mind with God’s assistance. I will continue to read and learn through my scripture study and by watching this site.
Oh and as far as Joseph Smith being killed in a gun fight. I think you need to learn some history. He was in Jail when a mob attacked the jail to take his life. The guard gave the prisoners access to fire arms then fled for their lives. This is definately not a case of him searching for a showdown. I have always found some comfort in the fact that they defended their lives when they were murdered in a jail cell. I do not find the defense of ones life when murderer’s attack a stain against someones name.
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TOmNossor
Guest
oat soda:
Concerning “living in a fantasy” and Mormon’s who say “you can’t prove anything,” at least with respect to your positions, LDS on this forum have effectively responded to every hint of an educated argument you have put forth. On this thread you claimed that you can put forth positions and do not need to read the material you are making assertions about. If that is not some type of non-intellectual acceptance based on … I do not know what is.
Again, I think you would be better served by studying your religion rather than “making fun” of mine.
Charity, TOm
Well Oat Soda, I will try not to be as harsh to you ofted do as I respond to your comment. I again encourage you to spend some quiet time contemplating if “making fun” of anyone is in accordance with the beliefs of your Catholic faith.
Concerning “living in a fantasy” and Mormon’s who say “you can’t prove anything,” at least with respect to your positions, LDS on this forum have effectively responded to every hint of an educated argument you have put forth. On this thread you claimed that you can put forth positions and do not need to read the material you are making assertions about. If that is not some type of non-intellectual acceptance based on … I do not know what is.
Again, I think you would be better served by studying your religion rather than “making fun” of mine.
Charity, TOm
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oat_soda
Guest
i’m certainly not going to tell you that it’s ok to be mormon. the religion is a shame and joseph smith has deceived millions of people. the evidence is overwhelming against joe’s testimony. why anyone after being informed of the facts would still be mormon is unnerving and can only be explained by irrational emotions and feelings.
it’s hard for many catholics to take mormonism seriously. many catholics feel mormonism is a creepy american cult akin to JW. it was fabricated by a nutt-ball from new york who was convicted of scamming people. this is the fair site which totally undermines mormonism. irr.org/mit/default.html
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tkdnick
Guest
Welcome Jodi! I am sure that this is a very hard position for you to be in. Keep praying, I’m sure God will lead you to truth and understanding. You said you husband converted to the LDS faith and then you were married in the temple; where did your husband convert from? I’m curious…has your husband stopped attending your church?
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mormon_fool
Guest
Well it’s an anti-mormon chart that a mocks mormon beliefs. I suppose it is close enough for some people.
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oat_soda
Guest
On this thread you claimed that you can put forth positions and do not need to read the material you are making assertions about. If that is not some type of non-intellectual acceptance based on … I do not know what is my argument was not based on my interpretation of clement of rome. it was based on the fact that clement of rome has always been considered catholic and a bishop and pope. i showed you how st. jerome and tertullian (199ad) both listed him as a succesor of peter. if an apostasy happened, it must have occured before clement’s time otherwise the church would consider him a heretic. the only reason i brought up clement is you said that
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Jodi
Guest
I hope I am getting the quoting thing right but it will take me a bit to get the controls down for posting so please excuse any errors while I am learning.
My husband was protestant before he joined the church. I first saw him across a crouded cultural hall. But I didn’t see him again untill the day of his baptism. I was assigned to find this new convert who was a friend of a friend of mine and drive him to his baptism. To make a long story short I had lousy directions and couldn’t find his house. I prayed for help and I turned around and there he was checking his mail. My husband has said that he feels that becoming mormon was a stepping stone for him because without some of the teachings of the church he wouldn’t be at the point where the catholic faith appeals to him.
He has turned in his temple recomend and told our bishop about his decision. He does still attend sacrament but mainly just to help me keep the kids in line. Trying to keep a 6,4,3 year old in line durring a meeting can be a trial of faith all by itself at times. He is doing the RCIA classes and is attending mass at least twice a week. I myself have gone to a mass. I would like to attent RCIA as I myself have unanswered questions about the catholic faith but unfortunately with our child care situation only one of us can go at a time.
I have to admit I am very impressed with the RCIA curriculum. Sometimes our (lds) fast track conversion method leads to ill prepared converts who are quickly lost from the faith. I like the time and education that is require by our local parish before he will be premited to become one with the church.
So while this is not what I signed up for I am allowing Gods hand free reign in my life and trying to be in a place where I can follow and hear his council. I must admit it has definately jumped up the hours of the day I spend in scripture study.
My greatest fear is that I will be lost. Above all things I want to know that my life is intune with what God wants from me. Right now I am uncertain and that my friend is what hell on earth feels like. Whatever decisions I make I desire a strong conviction of the rightness of my trail. I only hope that I am in a place where God can speak to my heart so that I can have the conviction I need in my life.
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tkdnick
Guest
Jodi:
You got the quoting thing right.
It sounds like your husband is more than exploring the Catholic faith. It sounds kind of like he’s made up his mind and will be leaving the LDS church for the Catholic church. I would think that attending RCIA and learning about Catholicism would be much better done together than separate. There’s no babysitters around ya? I don’t know how the parish your husband is at does things, but our parish has RCIA classes once a week for about an hour and half. Not too bad for having someone watch the little ones. Yes, RCIA is quite involved. It’s to ensure that people have an adequate understanding of the faith and also to ensure that they are truly desiring to enter into the fullness of the Catholic faith.
Just curious…you say you have increased the amount of scripture study…is this BoM scripture study or Bible scripture study?
I do not believe you would be left lost. Confused, maybe, but I also believe that God uses the confusing times to teach us important things. To force us to rely 100% on Him and not on anything else. I know some great clarity has come into my life through confusion. It’s certainly not an easy thing to go through.
I think you have come to the right place to ask questions and get answers regarding the Catholic faith. So feel free to ask away.
I admire you very much for being willing to be open! I know many who are not. Pray, pray, pray. And then, when you’ve done that…pray again! Prayer is very powerful. I will keep you and your husband in my prayers.
You got the quoting thing right.
It sounds like your husband is more than exploring the Catholic faith. It sounds kind of like he’s made up his mind and will be leaving the LDS church for the Catholic church. I would think that attending RCIA and learning about Catholicism would be much better done together than separate. There’s no babysitters around ya? I don’t know how the parish your husband is at does things, but our parish has RCIA classes once a week for about an hour and half. Not too bad for having someone watch the little ones. Yes, RCIA is quite involved. It’s to ensure that people have an adequate understanding of the faith and also to ensure that they are truly desiring to enter into the fullness of the Catholic faith.
Just curious…you say you have increased the amount of scripture study…is this BoM scripture study or Bible scripture study?
I do not believe you would be left lost. Confused, maybe, but I also believe that God uses the confusing times to teach us important things. To force us to rely 100% on Him and not on anything else. I know some great clarity has come into my life through confusion. It’s certainly not an easy thing to go through.
I think you have come to the right place to ask questions and get answers regarding the Catholic faith. So feel free to ask away.
I admire you very much for being willing to be open! I know many who are not. Pray, pray, pray. And then, when you’ve done that…pray again! Prayer is very powerful. I will keep you and your husband in my prayers.
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TOmNossor
Guest
“What hell on earth feels like!”
I could have written those words about 2 – 2.5 years ago.
At the time of my greatest pain I prayed for an answer because it was so hard to not know. The prayer helped immediately, but I still hurt. The first part of my answer came about 30 hours later, but it was nothing like I thought it would be. I still had much searching to do, but I had faith that God was with me as I searched.
My message to you is that God loves you and He can bear your pain for you in so many ways, while you focus on the His plan for you.
If a father does not give his son a rock when his son asks for bread how much greater is our Father in Heaven. Luke 11:11-13
God Bless!
Charity, TOm
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Jodi
Guest
There are a few hitches with the babysitters. One is that most of my girl friends are of my faith and probably would have ethical problems watching my kiddos will I am off investigating another church. My oldest child also is diagnosed with a disorder known as autism which while he is very normal functioning at present scares many away, and makes many day care centers unavailable to us. There is a catholic woman who does respite for disabled children in my area and she may be open to the idea of working for us so we can go. I will look into this.
A bit of both actually. Although I am pulling more out of the Old and New testimants so that I can base what I am studying of the standard accepted scriptures of both religions. I plan on running down an appostacy scripture chain I pulled of another forum latter today that is entirely New testimant based.
Turns out that my husbands baptism was done under the trinity formula so the local parish may accept it. That is his baptism before he became lds under a presbertarian preacher.
I have a few questions on how that works. And try and forgive me if it seems like a slanted question since I am working at this from my current frame of reference. Why would his baptism be acceped if it wasn’t performed by an ordained priest? Isn’t the priesthood necissary to perform a baptism? So if a man who has never been ordained does a baptism on an infant with the right formula is it valid? So what is important the formula or the authority? If I need to take this to the appologists side just let me know. I have always believed that Gods house is a house of order and that to have the priesthood line is important. Which would rule out all protestant religions because they would have lost that line as they dissented away. I don’t believe it lies with the remnant of the jews because I am a FIRM believe in Chirst. So if I were to become convinced of the errors of my current faith then catholic would be the only alternative from my current frames of reference. Either that or that the true church no longer exists at all which is the scariest idea I can concieve of.
I have discovered that many of the belief’s about what the catholic faith believed are indeed false. So I am trying to learn enough that I can correct any other errors to be found in my understanding and look with new eyes at the church.
I have been doing allot of praying and fasting. I freely admit to much confusion being my lot at this time. But I have also felt a great outpouring of my Father in Heavens love for me as I am searching for him. Please do keep me in your prayers as I know that God hears all of our prayers and will bless me for them.
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