The Truth: We Are Saved By Faith Alone

[mikeledes]

This is where we differ. Justification means we are freed from obligation but now we are free to obey Christ out of love and not out of a feeling of obligation.

Let me give you the New American Standard Bible tranlstion of Romans 8:12-13

12So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh–
13for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Being a “debtor” means being under obligation. We must not only have faith, but also love:

Luke 10:25-28

**25 And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested Him, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”
26 He said to him, “What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?”
27 So he answered and said, “ ‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,’ and ‘your neighbor as yourself.’”
28 And He said to him, “You have answered rightly; do this and you will live.” **

God Bless,
Michael

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Thank you

Explain the difference.

Well, since Im already part of the body of Christ doesnt that make me catholic somehow in the CC eyes.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Being a “debtor” means being under obligation. We must not only have faith, but also love:

The point is if you are in Christ you are no longer in debt. Christ freed us from that debt by His works on the cross.

Luke 10:25-28

25 And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested Him, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”
26 He said to him, “What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?”
27 So he answered and said, “ ‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,’ and ‘your neighbor as yourself.’”
28 And He said to him, “You have answered rightly; do this and you will live.”

Yes which we can only do after we have been saved by Grace through Faith.

 

[Stylteralmaldo]

…We must not only have faith, but also love…

The point is if you are in Christ you are no longer in debt. Christ freed us from that debt by His works on the cross.

Ok, so how is this position you just conveyed contrary to Catholic teaching?

You’re not just being obstinate now with your (name removed by moderator)utting of the cheesy grin are you?

ALLFORHIM:

Yes which we can only do after we have been saved by Grace through Faith.

At least you didn’t say we are saved by faith alone.

ALLFORHIM:

Well, since Im already part of the body of Christ doesnt that make me catholic somehow in the CC eyes.

Only if you are invincibly ignorant of the Truth spoken to you are you a member of the Body of Christ (yet not an official member of the Catholic Church). Only God knows if you are willingly rejecting the Catholic truth regarding faith and works.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Ok, so how is this position you just conveyed contrary to Catholic teaching?

Interesting, I though I became part of the body of Christ the moment I believed(through grace ) and put my faith in Christ That makes me part of the universal church.

But let us not get off topic

 

[mikeledes]

The point is if you are in Christ you are no longer in debt. Christ freed us from that debt by His works on the cross.

The passage says we are debtors, not that we were debtors:

Romans 8:12-12

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

The nature of this debt is different from the one we had prior to being justified (i.e. the eternal debt of sin vs. the debt to live righteously).

God bless,
Michael

 

[Stylteralmaldo]

ALLFORHIM:

Hi, I dont know is it? If not then good.

mikeledes regarding Romans 8:12-13:

The nature of this debt is different from the one we had prior to being justified (i.e. the eternal debt of sin vs. the debt to live righteously).

If you agree with mikeledes assessment of Romans 8:12-13 and how the debt referred there is different from the debt Christ paid for us on the cross, then we are certainly in agreement.

 

[BrandenRush]

We are saved by grace through faith. Faith without works is dead. Works are a product of our faith but not the saving mechanism. That is what scripture says. That is the truth.

 

[mikeledes]

We are saved by grace through faith. Faith without works is dead. Works are a product of our faith but not the saving mechanism. That is what scripture says. That is the truth.

Repeating the same thing over and over again does not make it true, nor does it change what the Bible actually says:

John 5:28-29

28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

Romans 2:6-8

who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,

Galatians 6:7-9

Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. 9 And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart. 10 Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all, especially to those who are of the household of faith.

Revelation 2:26

26 And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations

God Bless,
Michael

 

[BrandenRush]

Repeating the same thing over and over again does not make it true, nor does it change what the Bible actually says:

John 5:28-29

28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

Romans 2:6-8

who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,

Galatians 6:7-9

Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. 9 And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart. 10 Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all, especially to those who are of the household of faith.

Revelation 2:26

26 And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations

God Bless,
Michael

Absolutely right. But you have to remember, these are the things that you do when you are living in the faith of Christ. These are the works of the faith. I never said that you can willfully sin and claim that you are saved and it is so. Having true faith in Christ supresses the will to sin. But still, it is your faith in Christ that saves or otherwise, Jesus died for nothing.

 

[Stylteralmaldo]

Absolutely right. But you have to remember, these are the things that you do when you are living in the faith of Christ. These are the works of the faith. I never said that you can willfully sin and claim that you are saved and it is so. Having true faith in Christ supresses the will to sin. But still, it is your faith in Christ that saves or otherwise, Jesus died for nothing.

When you say “absolutely right” are you saying that you agree that even though you have faith, you must continue in that faith in deeds as Paul says right (Romans 2:6-8)?

If you accept that, then you reject that we are saved by faith alone. Yes we are saved by faith (no one disputes that). But the title of this thread suggests incorrectly that we are saved only by our faith, and that is clearly not the case as Romans (and other passages) clearly state.

 

[Grace_Seeker]

The passage says we are debtors, not that we were debtors:

Romans 8:12-12

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

The nature of this debt is different from the one we had prior to being justified (i.e. the eternal debt of sin vs. the debt to live righteously).

God bless,
Michael

This debt is not about sin, but about the debt (obligation) of gratitude we owe to God for declaring us to be heirs, even co-heirs with Christ, because we (who have entrusted our lives to him, i.e. an act of faith) now live in the new life of the Spirit that has bestowed on us, rather than the sinful life of the flesh we is what we inherit through our own depraved nature.

Before we are justified we have no debt to anyone. There is no debt to sin, we have earned the punishment we are to receive for our sin. What we have is not debt, but guilt. And there is no debt to live righteously either, rather there is a call to holy living. But until we receive the gift of new life through placing our faith in Christ, all our holy living is just works of the law and merit us nothing. The debt we occur at and following our justification is that of an obligation to God for crediting us with righteousness when we had none of our own to be credited with.

 

[mikeledes]

Absolutely right. But you have to remember, these are the things that you do when you are living in the faith of Christ. These are the works of the faith. I never said that you can willfully sin and claim that you are saved and it is so. Having true faith in Christ supresses the will to sin. But still, it is your faith in Christ that saves or otherwise, Jesus died for nothing.

And how is that different from what the Catholic Church teaches? We believe good works pleasing to God must be rooted in faith and in love and must be done while one is in a state of grace. However, faith must persevere in producing good works in order for a person to enjoy final salvation.

Matthew 10:22

But he who endures to the end will be saved

Romans 2:6-8

who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,

Galatians 6:7-9

Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. 9 And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart. 10 Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all, especially to those who are of the household of faith.

Revelation 2:26

26 And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations

Once we are justified, we are under obligation to persevere in a life of faith and love. Failure to do so will have dire consequences.

God Bless,
Michael

 

[mikeledes]

This debt is not about sin, but about the debt (obligation) of gratitude we owe to God for declaring us to be heirs, even co-heirs with Christ, because we (who have entrusted our lives to him, i.e. an act of faith) now live in the new life of the Spirit that has bestowed on us, rather than the sinful life of the flesh we is what we inherit through our own depraved nature.

Before we are justified we have no debt to anyone. There is no debt to sin, we have earned the punishment we are to receive for our sin. What we have is not debt, but guilt. And there is no debt to live righteously either, rather there is a call to holy living. But until we receive the gift of new life through placing our faith in Christ, all our holy living is just works of the law and merit us nothing. The debt we occur at and following our justification is that of an obligation to God for crediting us with righteousness when we had none of our own to be credited with.

Is not the debt of sin eternal damnation? The debt in Romans 8 is certainly not about sin. It is an obligation to live righteoulsy, to obey God’s call to holiness.

Hebrews 12:14

14 Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord

1 Peter 1:15-17

15 but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, 16 because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.”[c]
17 And if you call on the Father, who without partiality judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here in fear;

If one does not obey the call to holiness received when one is justified, one will not enjoy final salvation.

God Bless,
Michael

 

[kaycee]

If one does not obey the call to holiness received when one is justified, one will not enjoy final salvation.

God Bless,
Michael

We ARE Complete in Christ, There is nothing lacking.

**Col 2:6 **Therefore as you have **received **Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, (notice we receive, THEN walk in good works)
7. having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith, just as you were instructed, and overflowing with gratitude.
8. See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.
9. For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,
10. and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority;
11 and in Him you **were **also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;
12 having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.
13When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us **all **our transgressions,
14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

 

[DB_AND_ALI]

Don’t allow anyone or any church tell you that you need to do good works to win your way to Heaven. It is a lie. Scripture screams that we are saved by our faith in Christ and that works are the results of our faith, not the saving mechanism. Jesus said to accept Heaven like a child accepts a gift. That doesn’t mean going to mass everyday and going to confession once a week is going to buy your ticket to Heaven because it won’t. You won’t find Jesus through the mazes of the Roman Catholic church. You will find him by reading and studying Scripture and praying to him and seeking him in all that you do. The church can’t save you, Mary can’t save you, only faith in jesus Christ can save you no matter how much of a sinner or how little of a sinner you are!

Dear friend in Jesus…i have been purchasing copies of [ex anti-catholic] Scott Hahns book : Rome Sweet Home , and giving them to our local libraries. Please , please if you do one thing in your life then read this book…i can guarantee that you will understand our faith after finishing this miraculous conversion journey of Prof. Hahn and his wife ! Search and you will find the full truth. God bless you and peace !!!

 

[mikeledes]

We ARE Complete in Christ, There is nothing lacking.

**Col 2:6 **Therefore as you have **received **Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, (notice we receive, THEN walk in good works)
7. having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith, just as you were instructed, and overflowing with gratitude.
8. See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.
9. For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,
10. and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority;
11 and in Him you **were **also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;
12 having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.
13When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us **all **our transgressions,
14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

We are complete in Christ… and yet we have verses like:

Romans 14:15, 20

15 Yet if your brother is grieved because of your food, you are no longer walking in love. Do not destroy with your food the one for whom Christ died.
20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are pure, but it is evil for the man who eats with offense.

Compare that with 1 Corinthians 8:9-10

9 But beware lest somehow this liberty of yours become a stumbling block to those who are weak. 10 For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol’s temple, will not the conscience of him who is weak be emboldened to eat those things offered to idols? 11 And because of your knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?

The work of God destroyed? A brother for whom Christ dies perishing? That certainly contradicts what you’re arguing. We also have a verse like:

Philippians 3:12-14

**12 Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me. 13 Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead, 14 I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. **

God Bless,
Michael

 

[tnbella7]

It is a free gift, we agree on that… However, the gift cannot be used if it is not opened. One cannot just sit there staring at the gift. One must act on it. Everyone gets the gift but it is those who respond by opening it that get the benefits of the gift.

Christ died for EVERYONE but is it those who respond in faith (which is also a work because faith requires a consent of the intellect and the will), who will receive the reward of heaven. Let’s not forget also that 1 Cor 13:13 says, “And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.” Love is a work and it’s greater than faith!

That is just so succinctly and simply put. I’m printing it out to keep in my bible. Thank you!

 

[DB_AND_ALI]

some more brainwashing. So so sad that you don’t know Jesus

This is sooooo sad…i have heard it before from some protestants , who actually behave as if they invented christianity. What or who gives you the right to say that this or that forum poster doesn’t know Jesus !!! This is breathtaking arrogance and i always tell catholics to respond by telling the ignorant that they will be in our prayers that very day !!! I mean that sincerely my friend !
I hope you find what you are looking for…peace !!!

 

[BeProf]

A friend of mine on another Christian message board is a convert to Catholicism from Pentecostalism. As so often happens on Christian message boards this very topic came up and this convert friend of mine mentioned that when a Protestant says “faith” he usually means “faith, hope, and love” but when a Catholic says “faith” he (usually) means “belief”. That made a lot of sense to me.