The Tsunami and God

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Yes, it is not physical death that should concern us, but rather, spiritual death.

As my wife and I listened to a report that stated Puket Thailand was considered the child porn/prostitution capital of the world, she wondered aloud if our Father had intervened to release those poor innocent souls from their worldly sufferings while punishing the evildoers.
 
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BenRosa:
Yes, it is not physical death that should concern us, but rather, spiritual death.

As my wife and I listened to a report that stated Puket Thailand was considered the child porn/prostitution capital of the world, she wondered aloud if our Father had intervened to release those poor innocent souls from their worldly sufferings while punishing the evildoers.
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Is this normative Catholic thinking? Does God punish and reward here on Earth? I thought the reward and punishment came in the hereafter?

Surely there were thousands of innocents in many countries who died in this tragedy while thousands of evildoers survived. I don’t think we can view this terrible catastrophe as God’s punishment. Too often, the best die when they go to save other’s while the cowards run. It doesn’t make sense at all to say evildoers are being punished.
 
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bapcathluth:
Is this normative Catholic thinking? .
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No it is not. Catholic thinking is I believe that God works in mysterious ways and the judgement of our neighbor is not my business in any event.

Matthew 20

[10] Now when the first came, they thought they would receive more; but each of them also received a denarius.
[11] And on receiving it they grumbled at the householder,
[12] saying, These last worked only one hour, and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the day and the scorching heat.' [13] But he replied to one of them, Friend, I am doing you no wrong; did you not agree with me for a denarius?
[14] Take what belongs to you, and go; I choose to give to this last as I give to you.
[15] Am I not allowed to do what I choose with what belongs to me? Or do you begrudge my generosity?’
[16] So the last will be first, and the first last."
 
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bapcathluth:
Is this normative Catholic thinking? Does God punish and reward here on Earth? I thought the reward and punishment came in the hereafter?

Surely there were thousands of innocents in many countries who died in this tragedy while thousands of evildoers survived. I don’t think we can view this terrible catastrophe as God’s punishment. Too often, the best die when they go to save other’s while the cowards run. It doesn’t make sense at all to say evildoers are being punished.
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I agree with Michael, It is not Catholic Thinking. Certainly not Catholic thinking according to the church.

My town was devastated in May 2003. We had a Tornado which tore through our burb and went on to take out 10 sq miles. We lost a couple of lives, and many homes.

The people who died were not evil people. Quite the contrary, as those who knew them would attest. One of them was and elderly man just returning home from Mass. That stood out in our minds. Our parish had just let out from a big First Communion afternoon mass and reception. The parking lot had cleared just before it hit. None of the 300 plus souls were hurt. The parking lot was smacked hard by the Tornado and we would have had pure carnage had the people been there still. We considered that great grace, but in no way, some marker that God spared them just because they were good.

When you live through such a sudden and violent event, you are not about to go out and judge the guy who died as less worthy to live than yourself…let me tell you. :eek:
 
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Marie:
I agree with Michael, It is not Catholic Thinking. Certainly not Catholic thinking according to the church.

My town was devastated in May 2003. We had a Tornado which tore through our burb and went on to take out 10 sq miles. We lost a couple of lives, and many homes.

The people who died were not evil people. Quite the contrary, as those who knew them would attest. One of them was and elderly man just returning home from Mass. That stood out in our minds. Our parish had just let out from a big First Communion afternoon mass and reception. The parking lot had cleared just before it hit. None of the 300 plus souls were hurt. The parking lot was smacked hard by the Tornado and we would have had pure carnage had the people been there still. We considered that great grace, but in no way, some marker that God spared them just because they were good.

When you live through such a sudden and violent event, you are not about to go out and judge the guy who died as less worthy to live than yourself…let me tell you. :eek:
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Much wisdom in this lady…thanks Marie! Indeed God’s ways are not our ways and far be it from us poor mortals to ever even try to understand the “Mind of God”… All I know is that He is LOVE and whatever He permits then so be it…He is in charge!
Annunciata:)
 
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BenRosa:
Yes, it is not physical death that should concern us, but rather, spiritual death.

As my wife and I listened to a report that stated Puket Thailand was considered the child porn/prostitution capital of the world, she wondered aloud if our Father had intervened to release those poor innocent souls from their worldly sufferings while punishing the evildoers.
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Last time I was in Tampa I saw lots of sinners, porn of all sorts, prostitution of all sorts. Fortunately I don’t think God will send a Tsunami there anytime soon.
 
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bapcathluth:
Is this normative Catholic thinking? Does God punish and reward here on Earth? I thought the reward and punishment came in the hereafter?
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Did you forget about Noah’s Ark, The tower of Babel, Sodom and Gomorrah?
These arn’t only Catholic teachings, I think you can find these stories in any Christian Bible!
 
Not to mention the book of Job, anjel. . .

And the passages about the rain falling on the just and unjust alike. And the wicked flourishing like the green bay tree, but then, as with all men, who flower like the grass in the morning and wither away at night, we’ll seek the wicked the next day and poof! they’re gone.

And this from Luke, Chapter 13:
And there were present, at that very time, some that told him of the Galileans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. 2 And he answering, said to them: Think you that these Galileans were sinners above all the men of Galilee, because they suffered such things? 3 No, I say to you: but unless you shall do penance, you shall all likewise perish. 4 Or those eighteen upon whom the tower fell in Siloe, and slew them: think you, that they also were debtors above all the men that dwelt in Jerusalem? 5 No, I say to you; but except you do penance, you shall all likewise perish.
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My prayers are with the families and friends of all those killed or injured in this devastating event, with the souls of the departed, and with those who are trying to help the victims. May God lead the departed to Heaven, may He comfort the afflicted, and may the physical and emotional evils resulting from this be turned to His good and His glory, even if we can’t understand.
 
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BenRosa:
Yes, it is not physical death that should concern us, but rather, spiritual death.

As my wife and I listened to a report that stated Puket Thailand was considered the child porn/prostitution capital of the world, she wondered aloud if our Father had intervened to release those poor innocent souls from their worldly sufferings while punishing the evildoers.
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Yes, that is interesting. I imagine we can’t say with moral assurance that God ordained this as a chastisment, but we can’t say for certain it is not part of a chastisment either.

We should pray for all involved.
 
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Marie:
When you live through such a sudden and violent event, you are not about to go out and judge the guy who died as less worthy to live than yourself…let me tell you. :eek:
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Thias been addressed by a variety of church officials in a variety of ways:

"…Was the killer tsunami a message from god? A reflection on the way man lives?

Yes, says Bishop Alex Dias of the Stella Morris Cathedral Church, the main Catholic church here.

“I believe that the tsunami is a warning. A warning from god to reflect deeply on the way we lead our lives,” said Dais, as he stood among the ragtag tarpaulin tents in the 900-strong relief camp the church is running for tsunami survivors.

webindia123.com/news/showdetails.asp?id=57741&cat=India

Comments from other leaders:
cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=34386
 
Thank you for the links, Hagia Sophia. It was very interesting to read the different views about this natural disaster.
 
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BenRosa:
Yes, it is not physical death that should concern us, but rather, spiritual death.

As my wife and I listened to a report that stated Puket Thailand was considered the child porn/prostitution capital of the world, she wondered aloud if our Father had intervened to release those poor innocent souls from their worldly sufferings while punishing the evildoers.
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Ironic to your coments above is that one of the leading concerns of child advocates re: all the orphans left in the wake of the tsunami is that they are even more vulnerable to the ploys and tricks used by those in the booming east SE Asian sex industry. Those who are without the most basic necessities of clothing, food, shelter, much less familial protection and supervision are prime targets for those who would prey on the young, desperate and innocent.
 
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HagiaSophia:
Thias been addressed by a variety of church officials in a variety of ways:

"…Was the killer tsunami a message from god? A reflection on the way man lives?

Yes, says Bishop Alex Dias of the Stella Morris Cathedral Church, the main Catholic church here.

“I believe that the tsunami is a warning. A warning from god to reflect deeply on the way we lead our lives,” said Dais, as he stood among the ragtag tarpaulin tents in the 900-strong relief camp the church is running for tsunami survivors.

webindia123.com/news/showdetails.asp?id=57741&cat=India

Comments from other leaders:
cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=34386
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Can’t say I agree or disagree with any of the things they say. Yes, I know God is in control. He knows very well each person involved. I trust He can handle the big stuff. He know what He is doing and why.

Meantime, when these things happen, we learn, we reflect and we seek Him ever more than before. I know that much FIRST hand. More than once in my life time I have lived through devistation of course. 1993, the Flood that seemed to never end. We baled water and sand bags for months. 2003 was a banner learning experience. Stand in the rubble of that much devistation and I can tell you…He got our attention. 😦 I agree with Dias. 🙂
"A disaster like this is a word from god to think about those cracks and smoothen them out. We are filled our lives with so much that there is little place for god.
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“In moments of grave crisis, we remember god and we should also think how to put him back in the primary position in our lives,” said Dias.
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Island Oak:
Ironic to your coments above is that one of the leading concerns of child advocates re: all the orphans left in the wake of the tsunami is that they are even more vulnerable to the ploys and tricks used by those in the booming east SE Asian sex industry. Those who are without the most basic necessities of clothing, food, shelter, much less familial protection and supervision are prime targets for those who would prey on the young, desperate and innocent.
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Great point, Island Oak.
 
Island Oak:
Ironic to your coments above is that one of the leading concerns of child advocates re: all the orphans left in the wake of the tsunami is that they are even more vulnerable to the ploys and tricks used by those in the booming east SE Asian sex industry. Those who are without the most basic necessities of clothing, food, shelter, much less familial protection and supervision are prime targets for those who would prey on the young, desperate and innocent.
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Young Survivor Feared Kidnapped :eek:
 
This topic was the centre of a debate on Radio 2’s Jeremy Vine program today. I have to say, it really suprised me that people would feel like that! Seems like elementary theology to me and contradicts my understanding of God to ‘blame’ him for human suffering.

On the program, there was a Hindu a Muslim and a Christian. The Christian was rubbish! My dog Barney would have given a better account of the Christian faith! The Muslim was all…Muslim (God sees us suffer and will reward us for our suffering) and as usual I found myself allied with the Hindu chap who was utterly brilliant and made a great deal of sense!
 
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