The two Catechisms?

[jesusmademe]

Should one read The Cathechism of Trent or the modern one?
Why did we even need a new one when we already had a Catechism? Is Trent problematic in some way? I myself am not that fond of the new Catechism so maybe I will read one from Trent instead.

 

[Rob2]

There are and have been lots of catechisms .

 

[po18guy]

The only catechism that matters is the current edition. Man’s understanding of things both physical and spiritual develops - according with God’s will.

Being a Catholic means, at a minimum, intellectual assent to the teachings of the Church. I can understand the nostalgia involved in a rejection of “today”, but Church teaching is Church teaching.

Ours is to grant assent and obey. Each and every problem, heresy or other difficulty within the Church is due to lack of assent and/or disobedience.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

As Rob2 said there have been various catechisms because a catechism is intended to be a teaching and learning tool in the context of the time when it is written and promulgated. For example, the US bishops developed a national Catechism (the Baltimore Catechism) in the late 1800s because they felt the US needed one in order to teach schoolchildren and others about the faith in a simpler way than the Catechism of Trent, which was mostly made for priests to read.

The Church decided to develop the new Catechism of today because, as the USCCB said,"the Church has grown and the world has changed significantly since 1566." I note that in 1566, two of the four Marian dogmas hadn’t even been declared by the Popes and thus couldn’t have been in the Catechism or at least not as dogma, and that the 1566 catechism also had a section on not stealing the slaves of another and seemed to be okay with slavery, which might have worked in 1566 but not now.

You can read whatever you want, but the official teaching of the Church is in the current Catechism, so if you read something in the 1566 Catechism or the Baltimore Catechism and the current Catechism says something else, then the current Catechism is the one we follow. You don’t just get to pick out one you like and say you’ll read the one you like and ignore the current one, and it’s immaterial whether you “like” it or not.

 

[BartholomewB]

On these comments threads we sometimes see people who have read, or are planning to read, the CCC all the way through. That always surprises me. I don’t see it as a book to be read from beginning to end, but as a reference book, like a dictionary or encyclopedia, to look things up in when I need to.

 

[Isearch]

The church has changed since the 16th century. So it is not a surprise that there is a new catechism.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I can see where reading the CCC would be useful if you were a brand new Catholic or just considering joining the Church and wanted to know all the teachings so you could decide if you wanted to join. When I joined CAF I remember somebody recommending that we should all read the Catechism straight through so I bought a hard copy planning to read it, but of course it didn’t get read because half of it was stuff I already knew and the other half is stuff I never had to think much about and it’s easier to just look up sections online as I need them, especially since the whole thing is online in searchable format. I’m not sure whether to give away this copy I bought or not. It’s now out of date anyway as it doesn’t have the death penalty section change.

When I was a child we were required to read, lesson by lesson, about the first half of the Baltimore Catechism at some point before Confirmation. We were also required to read at least part of the second half but by that point the teacher giving the lessons was behind and we went through it super-quickly just so she could say we got done so we could be confirmed.

 

[TheMortenBay]

There are many catechisms as others have pointed out. But it should be pointed out that a catechism is merely a teaching tool or an attempt at a comprehensive credo. Therefore an old catechism wouldn’t become worse over time, even though it might become harder to relate to the WAY it teaches the faith.
A catechism is not to be confused with Canon Law which is binding for all Catholics. The CCC is binding in its reference to Canon Law only.

 

[Rob2]

In his Apostolic Constitution Fidei Depositum on the publication of the Catechism of the Catholic Church Pope John Paul II wrote : " It is meant to encourage and assist in the writing of new local catechisms, which must take into account various situations and cultures, while carefully preserving the unity of faith and fidelity to Catholic doctrine."

So we should be asking : " Where are all the other new catechisms ? "

 

[TheMortenBay]

Where are all the other new catechisms?

You ask a very valid question, because we need good, local, CATHOLIC catechisms. But I’d say, with the reception of e.g. the YouCat, I wouldn’t want to try and write a catechism for fear of criticism.

 

[jesusmademe]

I just read the Tridentine Catechism section on Penance and it is really good. The modern Catechism has a very strange language. I find it hard. The Tridentine Catechism was actually very good and practical.
Why would I be wrong for not liking the new Catechism? I mean, not everone can like its language. Why would the Church force md to read it just because I should when I get more out of an older text?

 

[BartholomewB]

Can you please quote an example of the “strange language” that you “find hard” in the CCC, with the corresponding section in the Tridentine Catechism that you find “very good and practical”? Just a sentence or two would probably be enough to help us understand the point you’re trying to make.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I agree, can you provide an example? I find the 1566 Catechism translations I’ve seen to be weird and archaic. The current Catechism is written in plain English and is much more understandable in my opinion as a native English speaker.

 

[DisorientingSneeze]

On these comments threads we sometimes see people who have read, or are planning to read, the CCC all the way through

One of my friend’s college boyfriends read it during a summer because he hoped he could learn enough about Catholicism to convert her to Church of Christ. He accidentally converted himself that summer. They’re now married with 7 kids. It’s my favorite read the whole catechism story.

I’m with you, I use it to look up topics as needed, but I think there could be a sense of peace like you would know what all there is to know if you made such a goal. My problem is I’m sure I wouldn’t retain it.

 

[BartholomewB]

My problem is I’m sure I wouldn’t retain it.

#metoo. Two thousand eight hundred sixty-five numbered paragraphs, each and every one making an important point, would be way too much for me to retain. That’s what we have books for, so that we know where to look for the information when we need it. The little filing cabinet in my head is already full to overflowing.

 

[Fauken]

I recently got a copy of the Catechism of Trent published by Baronius Press, and one of the things I was pleasantly surprised about is that there is a section of suggested passages that pastors to focus their Sunday/HDO homilies around that the current one does not. The passages are maybe 4-5 pages long. I think it’ll make for excellent Mass preparation. It also contains appendices of a few of the dogmas that came after Trent (the Immaculate Conception is one of them).

I imagine the vast majority of it is the same compared to the modern Catechism, since after all, teaching doesn’t change.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

As mentioned above, the Catechism of Trent was written for priests, since most people couldn’t read well enough to absorb a catechism (that might not have even been available in a language they could read for quite some time). The priest was supposed to read the material and then teach his flock accordingly. So that’s probably why it has homily prep materials in the current edition. The general Catechism of the Church is written for everybody to read including lay people in general.

 

[Fauken]

I know that it was. Although it was supposed to be translated in the vernacular for people to understand:

“The Roman Catechism is unlike any other summary of Christian doctrine, not only because it is intended for the use of priests in their preaching, but also because it enjoys a unique authority among manuals. In the first place, as already explained, it was issued by the express command of the Ecumenical Council of Trent, which also ordered that it be translated into the vernacular of different nations to be used as a standard source for preaching.”

Whether it was written for priests or not, it shouldn’t matter either way, especially in this day and age. If it works, it works.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

, especially in this day and age. If it works, it works.

If the Church thought the Trent Catechism “worked” in this day and age, they wouldn’t have expended huge amounts of time and effort to write a new one for adults, and another new version for young people.

I personally think after 400 years we were due for a revised Catechism and I’m fine with that, if only so I don’t have to be explaining the slavery passage to every non-Catholic I meet. As you said, the underlying teaching doesn’t change so if someone is desperate to read an old catechism, they can buy the old one, but when you go to RCIA or ask a priest a question, unless he’s a hardcore trad he’s going to answer you from the new one.

 

[Loud-living-dogma]

" The Plea Of Greater Ease And Elegance

Some there are, who plead in justification of such conduct, not the ambition of maintaining splendour and glory, but a desire of acquiring the means of living in greater ease and elegance. These are to be refuted, and should be shown how impious are the words and conduct of those who prefer their own ease to the will and the glory of God whom, by neglecting His Commandments, we offend extremely. And yet what real advantage can there be in theft? Of how many very serious evils is it not the source? Confusion and repentance, says Ecclesiasticus, is upon a thief. But even though no disadvantage overtake the thief, he offers an insult to the divine name, opposes the most holy will of God, and contemns His salutary precepts. From hence result all error, all dishonesty, all im"
The Plea Of The Other’s Wealth

But do we not sometimes hear the thief contend that he is not guilty of sin, because he steals from the rich and the wealthy, who, in his mind, not only suffer no injury, but do not even feel the loss? Such an excuse is as wretched as it is baneful."

Which catechism is this quote from?