The two major differences between Catholicism and Protestantism

[Anna_Scott]

Forum site conversation is very limited with much shortcomings. I do forgive you, but please forgive me when I offended you. I meant no disrespect with my LOL… but you did make me laugh in a very good way in what you said about monergism.com. Calvinism is a radical departure in what many Protestants believe today. However, Calvinism is the theology which led the Reformers to break from the Catholic Church. I don’t mean just the 5 points of Calvinism, but rather I mean the solas as a summary of the essentials which forced the Reformers to break from the Catholic Church. Please try to read this Cambridge Declaration which was a response to ECT 1 and ECT 2 (Evangelicals and Catholics Together documents - unity attempts).

reformed.org/documents/index.html?mainframe=http://www.reformed.org/documents/cambridge.html

2nd Adam: Your apology is accepted.

 

[MDK]

Here is the Protestant response to your post. What is God’s righteousness because we both agree perfect righteousness is required to enter Heaven? I can’t provide what God requires, nor could the Apostle Paul (Rom 7).

Romans 10

Brothers, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for them is that they may be saved. For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. For, being ignorant of the righteousness of God, and seeking to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

You evaded the issue, and have no response to it. Purgatory is real. It exists. It’s just that the truth is lacking in your understanding. The truth will remain lacking, as you have no way of knowing the truth. As long as you reject the Catholic authority to teach, you will never have any assurance of the truth of Christ. You provide ample evidence of such ignorance and arrogance each time you post.

 

[MDK]

Adam visited your threadGreat and what a good idea that everyone can get along and love Christ in spite of a few difference.

God gave us the Catholic Church for this purpose, so that we have no differences. People who are not Catholic are rejecting what Christ built, so how can that be good. People who are in the Church who pick and choose which of God’s truths they desire to believe are not doing much better.

 

[MDK]

LOL… thanks for your post. I don’t have time to read all that you posted. I will try to read it later. Monergism.com is historic Protestantism. It’s not an extreme view of sola fide. Rather, it is the historic Protestant view held by the Reformers like Calvin and Luther. In addition, great Protestants like Jonathan Edwards, John Owen, Thomas Watson, John Bunyan, Charles Spurgeon, etc hold to the same sola fide view. Modern day Calvinists who hold to same sola fide view are John Piper, RC Sproul, John MacArthur, etc… Check out this Evangelical Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals which hold to the same sola fide view. Passive is in regards to justification only, and not in the process of sanctification.

alliancenet.org/

You might become Catholic quicker than you think after you understand historic Protestantism.

Let’s please not bicker over this or that version of Protestantism. The elephant in the room is that there is not one legitimate reason for the existence of Protestantism. God did not build this religion, but man did. Protestantism is simply man’s way of telling God that what God built is not good enough… we’ll build one ourselves to decide what we want to believe about You. Protestantism was built with the partial victory of Satan over these founders, who loves the divisions in Christianity based on men’s pride and arrogance. If heresy were not possible, then Protestantism could not be founded.

God created only one Church, the Catholic Church. Why are we not all in it? Don’t bother to attempt a reply, though. You’ll only look ignorant and foolish. There are no valid reasons for all not to be Catholic. The founding mindsets of pride and arrogance in promoting heresy against God’s one Church are not legitimate reasons for creation of Protestantism.

 

[MDK]

Again, thanks again for the kind and supportive words. We should try to honestly learn what other Christians believe. It is good to discuss and debate with gentleness and respect, because growing in the grace and knowledge in the Lord Jesus Christ is a life long process. The Catholic Faith has strenghts which Protestant churches can learn from. Augustine brings Catholics and Protestants together

“In Essentials, Unity. In Non-essentials, Liberty.” - Augustine

If you actually believe in unity, then why do you reject the one Church Christ built for the purpose of unity. If you’re going to talk the talk, you need to walk the walk. Otherwise, your speech will continue to be empty of sincerity.

 

[MDK]

We do share the same Jesus the same God and the same Holy Spirit. I am very thankful I have all three in my life and in my heart. Instead of divisions it is too bad we can’t be united in Christ.

If you desire real unity as Jesus intended, Jesus provided a means that we all be one, as He and the Father are One. It is the Catholic Church. Those who are outside this Church thwart the purpose of God for Christian unity. Those inside the Church think they know better than Christ, will ruin unity by rejecting some of God’s teachings He gives through His Catholic Church.

 

[tweetymom]

Let’s please not bicker over this or that version of Protestantism. The elephant in the room is that there is not one legitimate reason for the existence of Protestantism. God did not build this religion, but man did. Protestantism is simply man’s way of telling God that what God built is not good enough… we’ll build one ourselves to decide what we want to believe about You. Protestantism was built with the partial victory of Satan over these founders, who loves the divisions in Christianity based on men’s pride and arrogance. If heresy were not possible, then Protestantism could not be founded.

God created only one Church, the Catholic Church. Why are we not all in it? Don’t bother to attempt a reply, though. You’ll only look ignorant and foolish. There are no valid reasons for all not to be Catholic. The founding mindsets of pride and arrogance in promoting heresy against God’s one Church are not legitimate reasons for creation of Protestantism.

And you look:shrug: I can really feel the love of Christ with every post you make. Thank you of all your judgement calls. you are just too nice

 

[MDK]

And you look:shrug: I can really feel the love of Christ with every post you make. Thank you of all your judgement calls. you are just too nice

Emotional response to my post aside, was anything I wrote untrue, or was I actually speaking the truth taught by Christ? Is it more charitable to speak the truth of Christ, or support the work of Satan in the divisions of Christians?

So, properly read, there is no “judgment” of people here. People who don’t really respect you will lie to you. Why would anyone consider the truth as “not nice” unless they feel uncomfortable with the truth? Personally, I am grateful when people do speak the simple truth, and I am never offended by it. In truth, it really doesn’t make sense to discuss the “finer points” of man made religions that God never intended to exist in the first place. Are we really doing God’s work in supporting the existence of something established as a rejection of the Church and faith that God established for them?

The Holy Spirit unites in Catholicism.

 

[tweetymom]

Emotional response to my post aside, was anything I wrote untrue, or was I actually speaking the truth taught by Christ? Is it more charitable to speak the truth of Christ, or support the work of Satan in the divisions of Christians?

So, properly read, there is no “judgment” of people here. People who don’t really respect you will lie to you. Why would anyone consider the truth as “not nice” unless they feel uncomfortable with the truth? Personally, I am grateful when people do speak the simple truth, and I am never offended by it. In truth, it really doesn’t make sense to discuss the “finer points” of man made religions that God never intended to exist in the first place. Are we really doing God’s work in supporting the existence of something established as a rejection of what God established for them?

The Holy Spirit unites in Catholicism.

Well I for one do not feel that protestantism is the work of the devil. I am not uncomfortable with the truth. and am not offended by it. Some people just have a way to present what they believe as the truth to be a bit self righteous.

So do you believe God only hears Catholic prayers?

 

[MDK]

Well I for one do not feel that protestantism is the work of the devil. I am not uncomfortable with the truth. and am not offended by it. Some people just have a way to present what they believe as the truth to be a bit self righteous.

I don’t know anyone who does believe Protestantism is completely the work of Satan. Without heresy, though, Protestantism could never have been formed. All Protestantism was indeed formed by the gates of Hell prevailing to some degree on their Philosophy and Theology in the very formation of their faith systems. Sad, but true. I wish it were not true, and I would not be writing if it were not true.

It is quite a terrible read of the self-righteousness you have made, but I’m not offended, but sad that you miss the real point here. None of what I am saying is promoting my personal Theology (as is done in Protestantism). What I am promoting is God-righteousness. Those who accept Protestantism made by men, are indeed promoting man-righteousness, and indeed self-righteousness because it’s up to the Protestant to read our Bible, and decide for themselves what morality is. This is how we come to have moral relativism prevalent in society, where someone has their morality is different from another’s morality. We can’t buy into that lie.

So do you believe God only hears Catholic prayers?

Let’s please not be silly. To even bring that up is to completely miss the real point.

Let me please ask you if the gates of Hell will not prevail against God’s one Church founded on the rock of Peter, what does that mean to you about Catholicism? It means that the Catholic Church, and only the Catholic Church will never teach error in faith and morals binding on all the faithful. There is no such guarantee for any man made faith system such as those born of the “Reformation”. If you then love someone who happens to be Protestant, then how is it good for someone you love to be in Protestantism which is not protected from the gates of Hell, and so they learn some truth and some falsehood? Is that what you desire for them? I don’t. I desire that they know God as He authentically revealed Himself to us. The gates of Hell prevailed to some degree in the formation of Protestantism, as the founding of Protestant faith rejected the truths of Catholicism and supplanted men’s ideas and interpretations of the Scriptures written by Catholic men, and taught by the Catholic Church. This is why there are thousands of different “Bible-based” faith systems of which all of them teach some degree of error about God. Only the Catholic Church is free from error in teaching faith and morals.

Without the Catholic Church, none of us has any assurance whatsoever of the truth. If you really love someone, do you want them to know the truth of God, or you’re not worried if they have some falsehoods about God, like His Presence in the Eucharist is just symbolic, and there are many more.

It’s not an indictment of Protestants, but of Protestantism and for very good reason. Protestantism can be very harmful to its adherents. I reject Protestantism, but love those who are under this false faith system, and ask them to come to the fullness of revealed truth only available in God’s one Catholic Church… as God intended for all of us.

 

[tweetymom]

I did not feel that asking that question was silly. If you believe that only Catholics are heaven bound. Then you surly can answer a simple question?

 

[MDK]

I did not feel that asking that question was silly. If you believe that only Catholics are heaven bound. Then you surly can answer a simple question?

(A little humor about the typo… I will not be surly in answering.)

It was not silly in the sense that you needed to know this. It was indeed silly as written, because I never even alluded to that, nor did anything I say give that conclusion. It was out of the blue based on your own fear by taking what I said out of context. So, it’s fairly obvious that I am on board fully as being a Catholic, which means buying into all the teachings without exception (this much was easy to determine from what I wrote in criticism of those who buy only what Catholicism they prefer). Since I believe in authentic Catholicism (authentic Christianity), then I believe in what the Church teaches (Catechism). So, I hope you know that the Church does not teach that God only hears Catholic prayers. The Church teaches that some who are not Catholic on Earth will get to Heaven. I must add that some who are formally in the Church will not make it to Heaven. Simply having all the tools of salvation available to you does not guarantee Heaven. The Church also teaches that all salvation is through God’s one Catholic Church, meaning that all salvation is related to Baptism and the Eucharist. Those who know the Catholic Church is required for salvation, and who fail to become a member, or leave the Church, no salvation is possible. For those who are invincibly ignorant, salvation is possible, as they didn’t consciously reject God by rejecting those whom He sent. Some have been indoctrinated deeply in Protestantism may truly qualify for invincible ignorance. That’s up to God to decide who He grants eternal life in Heaven to. It’s my task to ask people to leave what man built on some truth and some falsehood, and come to what God made for all of us built on truth about Him and teaching no falsehood (including the wonderful seven Sacraments). This is done in charity for the person(s). It’s not me, but God’s Holy Spirit Who will convert hearts open to and seeking God.

 

[MDK]

Tweetymom,

So, I must ask… do you want someone you love to have all the tools of salvation including teaching without error and all seven Sacraments available to them in God’s one Catholic Church, or take a chance in man-made faith system teaching some truth and some falsehoods and typically missing five of the seven Sacraments including the incomparable Eucharist.

If you prefer those you love inside God’s one Church, then we are together in this, and hopefully you understand my purpose.

 

[2nd_Adam]

You evaded the issue, and have no response to it. Purgatory is real. It exists. It’s just that the truth is lacking in your understanding. The truth will remain lacking, as you have no way of knowing the truth. As long as you reject the Catholic authority to teach, you will never have any assurance of the truth of Christ. You provide ample evidence of such ignorance and arrogance each time you post.

I think your post sure makes it hard to have a meaningful discussion. I think you should follow the lead of Pope Benedict in his desire for Christian unity. As fellow Christians, we are commanded to share with each other in gentleness and respect. Humility comes from knowing that our righteousness is from above and not from ourselves. Have you read his teaching on justification according to Paul by Pope Benedict? It is so different than what you have shared with me. I really like what Pope Benedict taught.

 

[tweetymom]

Tweetymom,

So, I must ask… do you want someone you love to have all the tools of salvation including teaching without error and all seven Sacraments available to them in God’s one Catholic Church, or take a chance in man-made faith system teaching some truth and some falsehoods and typically missing five of the seven Sacraments including the incomparable Eucharist.

If you prefer those you love inside God’s one Church, then we are together in this, and hopefully you understand my purpose.

Well I try to love everyone even those I disagree with. And no I do not understand your purpose but it ain’t up to me brother. I am working out my own salvation with God, not you. But I guess you agree that God hears and answers all prayers not only Catholics?

All the tools I need is I believe in Jesus and that He died on the cross for me and was born of a Virgin.

God Bless you in your journey with Christ:thumbsup:

 

[2nd_Adam]

Let’s please not bicker over this or that version of Protestantism. The elephant in the room is that there is not one legitimate reason for the existence of Protestantism. God did not build this religion, but man did. Protestantism is simply man’s way of telling God that what God built is not good enough… we’ll build one ourselves to decide what we want to believe about You. Protestantism was built with the partial victory of Satan over these founders, who loves the divisions in Christianity based on men’s pride and arrogance. If heresy were not possible, then Protestantism could not be founded.

God created only one Church, the Catholic Church. Why are we not all in it? Don’t bother to attempt a reply, though. You’ll only look ignorant and foolish. There are no valid reasons for all not to be Catholic. The founding mindsets of pride and arrogance in promoting heresy against God’s one Church are not legitimate reasons for creation of Protestantism.

If you read and mediate on what Pope Benedict taught on justification according to the Epistles of Paul, you will see that Pope Benedict is preaching Christ and Him crucified and not the Catholic Church. Read it and show me in his teaching where I am wrong. I’m glad Pope Benedict is the current Pope of the Catholic Church! Please click on the link on my signature to find his teaching on the doctrine of justification.

 

[2nd_Adam]

Well I try to love everyone even those I disagree with.

HI sister in Christ!

I always enjoy your kindness and Christ-like postings. Did you read Pope Benedict’s teaching on justification (see link at my signature). There is a move toward Christian unity between Catholics and Protestants and I rejoice in that truth. I really really like what Pope Benedict wrote. Since he is Augustinian, I want to read more about what he personally believes. Reformed Chirstians have much in common with Saint Augustine on several key doctrines.