The two major differences between Catholicism and Protestantism

[tweetymom]

It seems you are saying that I need to become a member of the Catholic Church to be truly united to Christ, correct? Interesting… to say the least. Why don’t you join us at the Christian Unity Thread and you might be able to see me as your brother in Christ. There are some really neat Catholics on that thread. I hope you don’t mind that I have a pass and go Monopoly card that will allow me to skip Purgatory on the way to the Celestrial City.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=375284

Adam visited your threadGreat and what a good idea that everyone can get along and love Christ in spite of a few difference.

 

[Anna_Scott]

I have always believed and still believe today that a forensic justification is the essential division between Catholics and Protestants. ** In my view, the truth of imputed justification is the heart of the gospel since it is about what Christ actually accomplished for sinners to the praise of His sufficent and complete grace.**

Do you believe Christ is fully present in the Eucharist? or Do you believe Communion or The Lord’s Supper" is done only in remembrance of Christ’s atonement for our sins?

Thanks for those docs. I remember when ECT 1 and ECT II came out years ago. I think those agreements were a Protesant compromise. It’s the absence of the word alone behind the word of Faith. Theologically, there will never be a bridge to Orthodox Catholicism and historic Protestantism.

Are you saying you believe in salvation by “faith alone”?
2nd Adam;5682247:

The Catholic Church cannot rescend the Council of Trent, which sealed our dividing line on this side of glory.

However, I have grown to understand that doctrinal distinctives although are very important (Jude 3), that God still saves sinners in-spite of our doctrinal errors in all christian camps. Heck, most modern day Protestants are more consistent with the Catholic Faith than historic protestantism since both views are synergestic in nature.

Please explain your statement: “The Catholic Church cannot resend the Council of Trent, which sealed our dividing line on this side of glory.”

So, are you saying we can pretty much believe any doctrine and find salvation?

How are the Catholic Faith and Historic Protestantism synergistic?

Reformed Theology is radical, but I believe those unique views are grounded in Scripture to the praise and glory of God alone. I’m not so much of making much of mankind and his goodness. I don’t understand the need of fighting for the idea of free will since we all rebelled in Adam. I am more amazed of what God has done for us in Christ while we were still His enemies, God justifying the wicked. Heck, the hymn of Amazing Grace which Catholics sing was written by a staunch Calvinist and all that goes with Calvinism theology.** IMO… the strenght of Calvinism is being a God-centered theology grounded in all of Scripture**.

What is your point here?

**The Protestant Reformers split from the Catholic Church based on Scripture. **

The split was due to far more than just Scripture.

Do you believe in Sola Scriptura (Scripture alone) or Scripture interpreted through Tradition?

I’m just a Christian who knows in part. I only use the term Calvinism so you can have an overview of my theological convictions.

It would be simpler to just say what you believe. The theological convictions of Calvinism covers a broad territory of ideas.

Thanks for sharing your conviction. All I know that there is one true camp that really matters for eternity.

Which “camp” do you believe to be the “true camp”? Keep in mind, you have already said, “God still saves sinners in-spite of our doctrinal errors in all christian camps.”

Christanity is a works righteousness salvation based on the work of another. We are not saved by our personal faith. Saving faith and repentance are gifts from God. Our faith is grounded in what Christ accomplished on our behalf. So, Christ saves us by His life and death, but we are not saved by our personal faith in Christ. We receive the merit of Christ through faith (Hebrews 11). Faith is simply the instrument in which the grace of God flows to us. Grace was merited by the person and work of Jesus Christ because of His perfect obedient sinless life earned favor with God (adoption, reconcilation, forgiveness, vessel of mercy).

Are you trying to express a doctrine of universal salvation?

Does that mean you are open to the idea that Christ was the Son of God by “Adoption”?

God blesses us with overflowing grace because we are united to Christ by faith; therefore, what Christ did is ours because we are in Him or united to Him (rom 5). His death is the other aspect of His work, which we are forgiven because He bore the wrath of God on our behalf. Christ’s work on our behalf is active and passive. How do you understand Ephesians 2:8-9 in light of the Scriptures that you posted, including James 2 and Hebrews 6?

You still have not responded to those Scriptures by telling me what you think they mean. You are avoiding an answer, by redirecting the question to me.

**Again, faith does not save us, Jesus Christ saves us, or maybe the Triune God saves us. **God the Father sent His Son to rescue us from our sin. Jesus merited full atonement and merited overflowing grace for us by fulling the righteous requirment of the law for us and paying the penalty for us as law breakers. The Spirit of God applies the work of Christ to us. So, salvation is a work of God to the praise of His glorious grace. The real question is about the sufficiency of the work of Christ on our behalf.

So, then what do you believe God expects on our part regarding salvation?

Here is the Protestant response to your post. What is God’s righteousness because we both agree perfect righteousness is required to enter Heaven? I can’t provide what God requires, nor could the Apostle Paul (Rom 7).

Please do not start a sentence with, “Here is the Protestant response.” You do not have the authority to speak for every Protestant.

Anna

 

[2nd_Adam]

Do you believe Christ is fully present in the Eucharist? or Do you believe Communion or The Lord’s Supper" is done only in remembrance of Christ’s atonement for our sins?

I believe in a positions between the two you stated.

Are you saying you believe in salvation by “faith alone”?

I believe in the sola of faith alone when you understand what it measn. We are not saved by our personal faith alone. Christ saves sinners. Faith is the instrument which the grace of God flows to us.

Please explain your statement: “The Catholic Church cannot resend the Council of Trent, which sealed our dividing line on this side of glory.”

The Council of Trent is considered sacred tradition. Therefore, it cannot be rescended. I would encourage you to read it to see how much of your beliefs are condemned with anathemas.

So, are you saying we can pretty much believe any doctrine and find salvation?

Of course not. However, I am not going to personally condemn 1 billion Catholics who reject a forensic justification (imputation of Christs’ righteousness to our account through faith).

How are the Catholic Faith and Historic Protestantism synergistic?

The Catholic Faith has a synergistic position on justification and sanctification. The historical Protestant position has a monogestic position on justification and a synergistic position of sanctifiction. I encourage you to read the monogestic.com website.

What is your point here?

Here is a site to understand historic Protestantism:

monergism.com/

The split was due to far more than just Scripture.

The essential split was the doctrine of justification realted to the gospel of God’s grace from a Protestant perspective.

Do you believe in Sola Scriptura (Scripture alone) or Scripture interpreted through Tradition?

Traditon can be very valuable to understand Scripture. However, Scripture is authorative above all other source of truth.

It would be simpler to just say what you believe. The theological convictions of Calvinism covers a broad territory of ideas.

Which “camp” do you believe to be the “true camp”? Keep in mind, you have already said, “God still saves sinners in-spite of our doctrinal errors in all christian camps.”

I think theologically, there has been no change between the Cathoic Faith and historic Protestantism. Both camps allows a view to see those on the other camp to be in Christ in-spite of two mutually exclusive views on the gospel.

Are you trying to express a doctrine of universal salvation?

Salvation is for all tribes, tongue, and nation… according to those the Father gave to the Son to rescue from their sins (John 6_.

Does that mean you are open to the idea that Christ was the Son of God by “Adoption”?

Of course not… God the Son is the eternal second person of the godhead. Adoption is a word used to those who are in Christ.

You still have not responded to those Scriptures by telling me what you think they mean. You are avoiding an answer, by redirecting the question to me.

We can discuss the entire Bible if you want to. Please start a new thread.

So, then what do you believe God expects on our part regarding salvation?

In justification, it’s a monogestic act. We are passive in regeneration. Again, please study the monogeism.com site.

Please do not start a sentence with, “Here is the Protestant response.” You do not have the authority to speak for every Protestant.

Anna, you speak more like a Catholic than a historic Protestant. I bet you become a Catholic eventually, which is okay with me.

Anna

 

[JonNC]

Belloc Fan,
This is one of the most interesting assessments of our differences I have read. Well put.

=Belloc Fan;5682165]So far as I can tell, the Eucharist is the single best reason for schism, perhaps the only good one. The debate over justification is silly. We both believe a saved person’s life exhibits faith and works; we both believe that these are both possibly only through the grace of God permitting and empowering us to believe and to obey (work); we both agree that you can’t work your way to Heaven. We think that you can believe and not obey, just as James 2 says, but *sola fide *Protestants say this isn’t Faith (James says it is, but it’s a dead Faith). C.S. Lewis rightly said that this was like arguing over which end of the scissors does the cutting.

While there are clearly still differences between us (or better said, between our respective theologians) concerning justification, you have expressed a significant level of agreement which I share.

On the other hand, if we’re wrong about the Eucharist, we’re dedicating our lives to the worship and service of a piece of Bread. If we’re right, we have Jesus Christ, Flesh and Blood, in our Mass. So either we have something far surpassing what Protestant services have (that is, they have the word of God and His spiritual Presence; we have the word of God *and *the Word, in His Physical, Real Presence), or we have an idol which casts us (and all of Christianity prior to 1517) outside of Christendom.

Here is an interesting point: We as Lutherans would agree with you, short of the details of Transubstantiation, that Christ’s flesh and blood are truly and substantially present in the Eucharist, yours and ours.

This is arguably more important that determining whether God is three Persons or just One, because we’re arguing if the Eucharist IS or IS NOT God. How is that not worth the fight?

A very thought provoking opinion.

Jon

 

[Anna_Scott]

I believe in the sola of faith alone when you understand what it measn. We are not saved by our personal faith alone. Christ saves sinners. Faith is the instrument which the grace of God flows to us.

I did check out Monergism.com. Monergism is an extreme form of sola Fide.

Monergism, Our Faith: monergism.com/our_faith.php
Monergism Distinctives

Grace:
God saves us by grace alone, through faith alone, and this faith is not produced by our unregenerated human nature.

Regeneration, Repentance and Faith:
God disarms the opposition of the human heart, subduing the hostility of the carnal mind, and with irresistible power (John 6:37), draws His chosen ones to Christ."

So, then what do you believe God expects on our part regarding salvation?

In justification, it’s a monogestic act. We are passive in regeneration. Again, please study the monogeism.com site.

According to Monergism.com, man is entirely passive in the salvation process:

Monergism Distinctives, Our Faith
monergism.com/our_faith.php

The Fall: . .As such, man is utterly incapable of saving himself, or even to cooperate with God in his salvation. . . .his “free will” will always choose to reject God, apart from God’s grace.”

"The New Birth, Spiritual Resurrection: . .Our conversion to Christ was not a joint venture between us and God, but a unilateral move on God’s part to raise us from spiritual death to spiritual life, changing our hearts so that we believed and repented. . .

. . . .God is not an equal opportunity Savior. Indeed, from Abraham on, God has always shown more mercy to one people than to another. . ."

Election: This pretemporal choice was not based on the fact that God knew which persons would believe of their own free will, for there is no person which fits that description. This decision was based upon God’s sovereign good pleasure alone.

Perseverance: . .Therefore, if a person has been effectually called and drawn to Christ, he will never lose that salvation since it was based wholly on the finished work of Christ and God’s election, not on the strength of the believers commitment or obedience. .

Remember these passages I quoted?

John 5:25-29 (NASB):
25 "Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.
26 "For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself;
27 and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man.
28 "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
29 and will come forth;** those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.**
**
Hebrews 6:4-6 (NIV):**
4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit,
5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age,
6 if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Hebrews 12:14-16 (NIV):
14 Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.
15 See to it that no one misses the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many.
16 See that no one is sexually immoral, or is godless like Esau, who for a single meal sold his inheritance rights as the oldest son.

James 2:14-18(ESV):
14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food,
16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that?
17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
Footnotes: a. James 2:16 Or benefit

James 2:21-26 (ESV):
21** Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar?**
22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works;
23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God.
24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
25 And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?
26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

2 Peter 3:16-18 (NIV):
16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
17 Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position. 18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.

1 John 2:4-6 (NIV):
4 The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him:
6 Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

Now, I see why you keep avoiding these Scriptures, which literally say:

• Those who do good deeds are resurrected to life, those of evil deeds to judgment.
• It is impossible for those who fall away, to be brought back to repentance.
• Without holiness no one will see the Lord.
• Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
• Abraham was justified by works, when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar,
• Rahab the prostitute was justified by works, when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way.
• For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.
• Be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.
• Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

This contradicts some of your basic doctrines.

 

[Justy90]

Every Protestant denomination is a cell of the Church

You could say the same anout the Catholic church as well

Your whole premise is untrue and bigotry unsanctioned by God’s holy word or God himself.

 

[Anna_Scott]

Please explain your statement: “The Catholic Church cannot resend the Council of Trent, which sealed our dividing line on this side of glory.”

The Council of Trent is considered sacred tradition. Therefore, it cannot be rescended. I would encourage you to read it to see how much of your beliefs are condemned with anathemas.

I am aware of the history and outcome of the Council of Trent. I should have made my question more direct. What do you mean by, “dividing line on this side of glory,” that occurred as a result of the Council of Trent? IOW: Define, “this side of glory.” Are you saying Protestants are on the right side of glory and Catholics are not?

I think theologically, there has been no change between the Cathoic Faith and historic Protestantism. Both camps allows a view to see those on the other camp to be in Christ in-spite of two mutually exclusive views on the gospel.
2nd Adam;5682380:

All I know that there is one true camp that really matters for eternity

.

However, I have grown to understand that doctrinal distinctives although are very important (Jude 3), that God still saves sinners in-spite of our doctrinal errors in all christian camps

Your statements seem contradictory. Please clarify.

. . . I am not going to personally condemn 1 billion Catholics who reject a forensic justification (imputation of Christs’ righteousness to our account through faith).

Do you believe if one lacks “forensic justification,” one is then condemned and without hope of salvation?

The website, to which you referred me, has this to say about the Catholic Church:

Monergism.com
Roman Catholicism
Link: monergism.com/directory/link_category/Roman-Catholicism/

“Semi-Pelagianism was officially condemned as a heresy by the Synod of Orange in 529. Afterwards, due to human corruption, certain aspects of Semi-Pelagianism were still incorporated into the theological doctrines of the medieval Roman Catholic Church, such as a rejection of the bondage of the will and the concept that humans could (with God’s help) redeem themselves and maintain their just standing before God through repentance and penance.

Pope Gregory the Great even said, “The good that we do is both of God and of ourselves; of God by prevenient grace, our own by good will following.” Rome, to this day, by continuing to affirm the semi-pelagian view that redeemed humanity must (through good works) maintain its own just standing before God, in essence declares that Jesus’ work on the cross is insufficient to save completely …that men are justified partly by the grace of God in Christ and partly by their own works. So in RCC dogma, Jesus ends up, not as a Savior, but one who helps us save ourselves.”
Monergism Copyright © 2009 by CPR Foundation. All rights reserved | Site Credits

Quotes from Monergism.com

monergism.com/our_faith.php

“God saves us by grace alone, through faith alone, and this faith is not produced by our unregenerated human nature.”

“God disarms the opposition of the human heart, subduing the hostility of the carnal mind, and with irresistible power (John 6:37), draws His chosen ones to Christ.”

“As such, man is utterly incapable of saving himself, or even to cooperate with God in his salvation. . . .his “free will” will always choose to reject God, apart from God’s grace.”

“Our conversion to Christ was not a joint venture between us and God, but a unilateral move on God’s part to raise us from spiritual death to spiritual life, changing our hearts so that we believed and repented.”

“God is not an equal opportunity Savior. Indeed, from Abraham on, God has always shown more mercy to one people than to another.”

“This pretemporal choice was not based on the fact that God knew which persons would believe of their own free will, for there is no person which fits that description. This decision was based upon God’s sovereign good pleasure alone.”

“Therefore, if a person has been effectually called and drawn to Christ, he will never lose that salvation since it was based wholly on the finished work of Christ and God’s election, not on the strength of the believers commitment or obedience.”

With such beliefs, what is the point of even having a debate here at all? If the claims of Monergism are true; we have no choice whatsoever regarding our salvation or even our actions.

What is the point of a final judgment, if there is no free will? We could just say to God, you decided before I was born not to give me the “regeneration” to make my salvation possible. I am therefore not accountable for my actions.

Monergism leads to a rather depressing view of fatalistic salvation of the elect.

I think your theological positons have moved you outside the historic Protestant camp and maybe into the Catholic camp in regards to theology.

Here is the Protestant response to your post. What is God’s righteousness because we both agree perfect righteousness is required to enter Heaven? I can’t provide what God requires, nor could the Apostle Paul (Rom 7).

Please do not start a sentence with, “Here is the Protestant response.” You do not have the authority to speak for every Protestant.

Anna, you speak more like a Catholic than a historic Protestant. I bet you become a Catholic eventually, which is okay with me.

Your perception of my beliefs is irrelevant. You still do not have the authority to speak for all Protestants.

Anna

 

[Anna_Scott]

I welcome all comments on Post 79 & Post 81, regarding the assertions of “Monergism.”
(I do to accept those assertions.)

Anna

 

[2nd_Adam]

I did check out Monergism.com. Monergism is an extreme form of sola Fide.

According to Monergism.com, man is entirely passive in the salvation process:

.

LOL… thanks for your post. I don’t have time to read all that you posted. I will try to read it later. Monergism.com is historic Protestantism. It’s not an extreme view of sola fide. Rather, it is the historic Protestant view held by the Reformers like Calvin and Luther. In addition, great Protestants like Jonathan Edwards, John Owen, Thomas Watson, John Bunyan, Charles Spurgeon, etc hold to the same sola fide view. Modern day Calvinists who hold to same sola fide view are John Piper, RC Sproul, John MacArthur, etc… Check out this Evangelical Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals which hold to the same sola fide view. Passive is in regards to justification only, and not in the process of sanctification.

alliancenet.org/

You might become Catholic quicker than you think after you understand historic Protestantism.

 

[Anna_Scott]

LOL… thanks for your post. I don’t have time to read all that you posted. I will try to read it later. Monergism.com is historic Protestantism. It’s not an extreme view of sola fide. Rather, it is the historic Protestant view held by the Reformers like Calvin and Luther. In addition, great Protestants like Jonathan Edwards, John Owen, Thomas Watson, John Bunyan, Charles Spurgeon, etc hold to the same sola fide view. Modern day Calvinists who hold to same sola fide view are John Piper, RC Sproul, John MacArthur, etc… Check out this Evangelical Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals which hold to the same sola fide view. Passive is in regards to justification only, and not in the process of sanctification.

alliancenet.org/

You might become Catholic quicker than you think after you understand historic Protestantism.

2nd Adam:

When you stop “laughing out loud,” and you do find the time to respond to my posts; would you just state what you actually believe regarding the issues of our present discussions.

It’s fine to quote church fathers, reformers, and other authors. Just don’t use them to avoid answering the specific issues of our discussions.

IOW, if you want to make reference to Calvin or Luther about a specific issue in our discussions; please quote Calvin or Luther on the specific issue.

Referring to “Calvinistic Theology,” “Historic Protestantism,” “Monergism,” etc., without specific quotes to support the issues at hand, is evasive.

Originally Posted by 2nd Adam
The Protestant Reformers split from the Catholic Church based on Scripture.

Ironically, for someone who claims “Historic Protestantism,” and who stated, “Tradition can be very valuable to understand Scripture. However, Scripture is authoritative above all other source of truth”; you have made very few references to Scripture, and even failed to respond to the Scriptures I quoted you numerous times.

Your posts are filled with references to Monergism, Synergism, Regeneration, Historic Protestantism, Calvinistic Theology, Modern Day Calvinists, Luther, Jonathan Edwards, John Owen, Thomas Watson, John Bunyan, Charles Spurgeon, Calvinistic Theology, Modern Day Calvinists, John Piper, RC Sproul, John MacArthur, etc.

If you truly believe, “Scripture is authoritative above all other source of truth,” as you said; where’s the Scripture to support your beliefs? Your posts demonstrate a heavy reliance upon “traditions” and “theology” established by Protestant Reformers.

Anna

 

[2nd_Adam]

Anna,

I am just doing a quick overview on the threads. I have to watch a movie with the family. I’m nost sure where you are coming from. First ot all, why are you a Protestant? What does it mean that you are Protestant? What is a Protestant historically? What did the Protestants Reformers believe in regards to the essential to break from the Catholic Church? Are you familar with the 5 solas of the Protestant Reformation? I am very familar with all of the Scriptures that you posted so when timer permits we can discuss all of the Scirptures.

fivesolas.com/5solas.htm

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Protestantism, in a nutshell IMO, is a group of people forsaking 1,500 years of tradition and theology for the sake of taking the Bible and trying to re-create what they see as being the church within its pages. Catholics holistically look at the Scriptures, theology of the saints and popes, and tradition, put it all together and have unity of understanding through the pope. Protestants look through the Bible and try to re-assemble, re-create, the church. For hierarchy or pastoral care, who’s in charge, we’ll read what Paul has to say to Timothy or Titus…to figure out if Peter was infallible, we’ll read Galatians and the argument between Paul and Peter…to understand grace and salvation, we’ll read Romans…

Things are taken out of context, the councils are often ignored, anti-papal guys like Cyprian are extolled, pro-papal saints (who are legion!) are ignored. Guys like Augustine are quoted by Luther or Calvin about pre-destination, but ignored when he talks about church polity or papacy or purgatory, etc. etc.

The Bible is not a manual to read in which we re-create the church. The epistles are really ancient emails between apostles and the gospels offer us great details about the life of Christ, but in the end Christ built a Church, Peter was and is its rock, and the Holy Spirit guides it. The OP is correct in much of what he says. So many of these non-denom groups or even the mainline protestant denoms now don’t care about what councils had to say or about Augustine or Aquinas or the ECF’s, the Didache, none of it. They just get together and Bible study. The Bible is a part of the Christian experience, not all of it. That is what makes a Protestant and a Catholic so distant. I will just include my opinion of what else seperates us:

apostolic succession vs. the idea that faithfullness to the Scriptures is succession
real presence vs. memorial or spiritual pneumatic presence
priesthood, sacrficial priesthood vs. presbyter in the elder/overseer-only sense
justification is infused vs. justification is imputed
Church is living, breathing, tangiable, visible vs. invisible
holistic vs. Bible-only
sacramental vs. internalized faith-only and personal relationship w Jesus

And these are only the items that I can think of off-hand in my limited time. It’s impossible to take some communications between apostles and four gospels and think one can re-create the NT Church. We’ve had the Church all along, for 2,000 years

 

[2nd_Adam]

I

Your perception of my beliefs is irrelevant. You still do not have the authority to speak for all Protestants.

Anna

Anna,

You are a little too feisty for me to really have a serious discussion. I don’t want to make this a Calvinism and Arminian debate since it is a debate within Protestantism. You might not know it, but you are probably an Arminian (Semi-Pelagian) Protestant Christian which is closer in doctrine to the Catholic Faith. I will continue to post that way that I do. And you are welcome to post the way that you do. This is a public forum site with Form site rules. We are not each other’s keeper. I will need a break from you because I am not here to fight anyone on this Forum site. If you are able to bring it down a few notches, maybe we can discuss the Scriptures later on. You might want to study this link in regards to Calvinism and Arminianism.

the-highway.com/compare.html

 

[tweetymom]

Anna,

You are a little too feisty for me to really have a serious discussion. I don’t want to make this a Calvinism and Arminian debate since it is a debate within Protestantism. You might not know it, but you are probably an Arminian (Semi-Pelagian) Protestant Christian which is closer in doctrine to the Catholic Faith. I will continue to post that way that I do. And you are welcome to post the way that you do. This is a public forum site with Form site rules. We are not each other’s keeper. I will need a break from you because I am not here to fight anyone on this Forum site. If you are able to bring it down a few notches, maybe we can discuss the Scriptures later on. You might want to study this link in regards to Calvinism and Arminianism.

the-highway.com/compare.html

Very good web site and I have added it to my favorites so I can study it at length. Great job in all that you have researched:thumbsup:

 

[2nd_Adam]

Very good web site and I have added it to my favorites so I can study it at length. Great job in all that you have researched:thumbsup:

Again, thanks again for the kind and supportive words. We should try to honestly learn what other Christians believe. It is good to discuss and debate with gentleness and respect, because growing in the grace and knowledge in the Lord Jesus Christ is a life long process. The Catholic Faith has strenghts which Protestant churches can learn from. Augustine brings Catholics and Protestants together

“In Essentials, Unity. In Non-essentials, Liberty.” - Augustine

 

[tweetymom]

Again, thanks again for the kind and supportive words. We should try to honestly learn what other Christians believe. It is good to discuss and debate with gentleness and respect, because growing in the grace and knowledge in the Lord Jesus Christ is a life long process. The Catholic Faith has strenghts which Protestant churches can learn from. Augustine brings Catholics and Protestants together

“In Essentials, Unity. In Non-essentials, Liberty.” - Augustine

Adam I never have understood why Catholic and Protestants cannot try to gret along and understand. each other. :shrug:Sometimes I feel like a voice out in the wilderness trying to bring people. together. I think we should respect each other and be thankful that we have Jesus :clapping: in our lives no matter how we Got saved from hell You are very informed and I appreciate that:thumbsup:

 

[2nd_Adam]

Adam I never have understood why Catholic and Protestants cannot try to gret along and understand. each other. :shrug:Sometimes I feel like a voice out in the wilderness trying to bring people. together. I think we should respect each other and be thankful that we have Jesus :clapping: in our lives no matter how we Got saved from hell You are very informed and I appreciate that:thumbsup:

When you think about it, we share the same honor and privilege to know God through Jesus Christ. We are Christians. God is our Heavenly Father because of what God has done for us in His Son. The difference really is about how we receive the benefits of the work of Christ as sinners being transformed into the image of Christ… to the praise of His glorious grace. We both can say salvation is all of grace (grace alone) through the merit of Jesus Christ.

 

[tweetymom]

We do share the same Jesus the same God and the same Holy Spirit. I am very thankful I have all three in my life and in my heart. Instead of divisions it is too bad we can’t be united in Christ.

 

[Anna_Scott]

LOL… thanks for your post. I don’t have time to read all that you posted. I will try to read it later. Monergism.com is historic Protestantism. It’s not an extreme view of sola fide. Rather, it is the historic Protestant view held by the Reformers like Calvin and Luther. In addition, great Protestants like Jonathan Edwards, John Owen, Thomas Watson, John Bunyan, Charles Spurgeon, etc hold to the same sola fide view. Modern day Calvinists who hold to same sola fide view are John Piper, RC Sproul, John MacArthur, etc… Check out this Evangelical Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals which hold to the same sola fide view. Passive is in regards to justification only, and not in the process of sanctification.

alliancenet.org/

You might become Catholic quicker than you think after you understand historic Protestantism.

Anna,

I am just doing a quick overview on the threads. I have to watch a movie with the family. **I’m nost sure where you are coming from. First ot all, why are you a Protestant? ** What does it mean that you are Protestant? What is a Protestant historically? What did the Protestants Reformers believe in regards to the essential to break from the Catholic Church? Are you familar with the 5 solas of the Protestant Reformation? I am very familar with all of the Scriptures that you posted so when timer permits we can discuss all of the Scirptures.

fivesolas.com/5solas.htm

Anna,

**You are a little too feisty for me to really have a serious discussion. ** I don’t want to make this a Calvinism and Arminian debate since it is a debate within Protestantism. You might not know it, but you are probably an Arminian (Semi-Pelagian) Protestant Christian which is closer in doctrine to the Catholic Faith. I will continue to post that way that I do. And you are welcome to post the way that you do. This is a public forum site with Form site rules. We are not each other’s keeper. ** I will need a break from you because I am not here to fight anyone on this Forum site. If you are able to bring it down a few notches, maybe we can discuss the Scriptures later on. ** You might want to study this link in regards to Calvinism and Arminianism.

2nd Adam: You are certainly free to take a break from me; you are free to ignore any post by anyone.

You said to me:
“You are a little too feisty for me to really have a serious discussion.”
“I will need a break from you because I am not here to fight anyone on this Forum site.”
“If you are able to bring it down a few notches, maybe we can discuss the Scriptures later on.”

In my defense I will say that in my efforts to try to have a serious discussion, you laughed at my post, saying “LOL… thanks for your post.”

It is not my intention to be, in any way disrespectful, to you or anyone else; and I am not here to fight anyone either. So, if I have offended you in any way, then I sincerely apologize. It would be helpful, if you would tell me which of my statements have caused offense. If you do not respond, I will understand.

Anna

 

[2nd_Adam]

2nd Adam: You are certainly free to take a break from me; you are free to ignore any post by anyone.

You said to me:
“You are a little too feisty for me to really have a serious discussion.”
“I will need a break from you because I am not here to fight anyone on this Forum site.”
“If you are able to bring it down a few notches, maybe we can discuss the Scriptures later on.”

In my defense I will say that in my efforts to try to have a serious discussion, you laughed at my post, saying “LOL… thanks for your post.”

It is not my intention to be, in any way disrespectful, to you or anyone else; and I am not here to fight anyone either. So, if I have offended you in any way, then I sincerely apologize. It would be helpful, if you would tell me which of my statements have caused offense. If you do not respond, I will understand.

Anna

Forum site conversation is very limited with much shortcomings. I do forgive you, but please forgive me when I offended you. I meant no disrespect with my LOL… but you did make me laugh in a very good way in what you said about monergism.com. Calvinism is a radical departure in what many Protestants believe today. However, Calvinism is the theology which led the Reformers to break from the Catholic Church. I don’t mean just the 5 points of Calvinism, but rather I mean the solas as a summary of the essentials which forced the Reformers to break from the Catholic Church. Please try to read this Cambridge Declaration which was a response to ECT 1 and ECT 2 (Evangelicals and Catholics Together documents - unity attempts).

reformed.org/documents/index.html?mainframe=http://www.reformed.org/documents/cambridge.html