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EndTimes
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Again… Faith is Faith… and our opportunity to accept Faith - comes via the Grace of God
Everyone who has Faith - knows that Faith is a spiritual Virtue…
Which opens the Door to God’s Spirit…
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Everyone who has Faith - knows that Faith is a spiritual Virtue…
Which opens the Door to God’s Spirit…
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Michaelangelo
Guest
Nope. Faith is not “accepted”. Faith is a decision.Michaelangelo:
Again… Faith is Faith… and our opportunity to accept Faith - comes via the Grace of God
Everyone who has Faith - knows that Faith is a spiritual Virtue…
Which opens the Door to God’s Spirit…
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EndTimes
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Whereas Decisions are acts of the will
Faith is a spiritual virtue as are Hope and Charity. .
Faith Itself has allowed Miracles to occur…
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Michaelangelo
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Nope. You actively decide what you believe in each and every day. That belief is founded on something (the data). What data is required is different form person to person.Michaelangelo:
Whereas Decisions are acts of the will
Faith is a spiritual virtue as are Hope and Charity. .
Faith Itself has allowed Miracles to occur…
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EndTimes
Guest
Faith is a Spiritual Virtue as is Hope and Charity
Faith in Jesus IS the Key to Salvation which leads to Hope. Charity is the operative
Faith can move mountains
Faith in Jesus IS the Key to Salvation which leads to Hope. Charity is the operative
Faith can move mountains
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EndTimes
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Not according to the Catholic Church …
CATHOLIC CHURCH TEACHINGS ON FAITH
PART ONE
THE PROFESSION OF FAITH
SECTION ONE
“I BELIEVE” - “WE BELIEVE”
CHAPTER THREE
MAN’S RESPONSE TO GOD
**[142] By his Revelation , "the invisible God, from the fullness of his love, addresses men as his friends, and moves among them, in order to invite and receive them into his own company."1 The adequate response to this invitation is faith.
**[143] By faith , man completely submits his intellect and his will to God.2 With his whole being man gives his assent to God the revealer. Sacred Scripture calls this human response to God, the author of revelation, “the obedience of faith”.3
ARTICLE 1
I BELIEVE
I. THE OBEDIENCE OF FAITH
144 To obey (from the Latin ob-audire , to “hear or listen to”) in faith is to submit freely to the word that has been heard, because its truth is guaranteed by God, who is Truth itself. Abraham is the model of such obedience offered us by Sacred Scripture. The Virgin Mary is its most perfect embodiment.
Abraham - "father of all who believe"
**[145] The Letter to the Hebrews , in its great eulogy of the faith of Israel’s ancestors, lays special emphasis on Abraham’s faith: "By faith, Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place which he was to receive as an inheritance; and he went out, not knowing where he was to go."4 By faith, he lived as a stranger and pilgrim in the promised land.5 By faith, Sarah was given to conceive the son of the promise. And by faith Abraham offered his only son in sacrifice.6
**[146] Abraham thus fulfills the definition of faith in Hebrews 11:1: “Faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen”:7 "Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness."8 Because he was “strong in his faith”, Abraham became the “father of all who believe”.9
**[147] The Old Testament is rich in witnesses to this faith. The Letter to the Hebrews proclaims its eulogy of the exemplary faith of the ancestors who “received divine approval”.10 Yet “God had foreseen something better for us”: the grace of believing in his Son Jesus, “the pioneer and perfecter of our faith”.11
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Michaelangelo
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Without evidence for a spiritual reality those are just empty claims.
I fail to see what that has to do with our discussion. I have neither faith nor hope for any salvation.
Do you have any support for that? Has any mountain been moved by faith?
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EndTimes
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Michaelangelo
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I’m perfectly aware of what is stated in the catechism.
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EndTimes
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Stating the obvious… Do you have Faith?
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Michaelangelo
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I know a lot of anecdotal data supporting a spiritual reality exists. But absolutely no empirical data. And you avoided to answer about any mountains moved by faith.Michaelangelo:
Evidence exists…
So… They’re not empty claims whatsover…
I’ve Faith. You?
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Michaelangelo
Guest
Faith in what?Michaelangelo:
Stating the obvious… Do you have Faith?
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EndTimes
Guest
There you go… Looking for Signs - just as what was said of some Jews…
Faith and Proof are Diametrical…
Jump in… Just DO IT!
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Michaelangelo
Guest
If the apostles were given evidence before they believed in him, I simply ask for the same level of evidence. No more, no less.Michaelangelo:
There you go… Looking for Signs - just as what was said of some Jews…
Faith and Proof are Diametrical…
Jump in… Just DO IT!
Until then… Nope.
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EndTimes
Guest
Just because you’ve not witnessed it… Evidence Exists…
It requires that you effect what you continue to show zero evidence of actually understanding.
FAITH.
When/If that ever sinks through - maybe you’ll take that very deep leap…
Until then, I’ll do what I do… speak the truth… period.
Whether or not you ever get to know Jesus’ Mind and Heart - is on your lap. Not mine.
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Michaelangelo
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Kindly refer to any empirical evidence. Pretty please. The rest of what you wrote makes no sense.Michaelangelo:
Just because you’ve not witnessed it… Evidence Exists…
It requires that you effect what you continue to show zero evidence of actually understanding.
FAITH.
When/If that ever sinks through - maybe you’ll take that very deep leap…
Until then, I’ll do what I do… speak the truth… period.
Whether or not you ever get to know Jesus’ Mind and Heart - is on your lap. Not mine.
)
And you continue to avoid presenting any support for your claim that faith can move a mountain. Has that ever happened?
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EndTimes
Guest
No.
It cannot make sense to those who refuse Faith…
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written:
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”
Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.
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Michaelangelo
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Oh I would have plenty of faith if only there was sufficient reason.
A text by men which has no bearing here. And which does absolutely not provide any of the empirical data I ask for and will keep on asking for.
quote=“Michaelangelo, post:98, topic:602896, full:true”]
Then present those empirical data to me. Don’t just claim it exist and then nothing. Right now I do not have faith in you. Because you have not provided sufficient reason for me to believe in you. See how it works? Sufficient reason = faith.Michaelangelo:
Just because you’ve not witnessed it… Evidence Exists…
Absolute nonsense!
You have not provided any evidence that you are speaking hte truth.
Another nonsense statement. A heart is a pump which you do not get to know. And I seriously doubt you know Jesus mind.
And you continue to avoid presenting any support for your claim that faith can move a mountain. Has that ever happened? But let me guess. You will continue to avoid this
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EndTimes
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Michaelangelo
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Nope. I say it because it is my modus operandi.Michaelangelo:
You only say that because you demand a Sign…
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