The Ultimate Apologetics Question

[Genesis315]

Mulholland Drive is like the Eucharist. We receive it through our eyes and ears. It is in the disguise of a movie. This is what makes it possible that all people can receive it. After it is willingly let inside of us we are forced to identify who it is we have let inside. Because the thing we have let inside is a living thing freely wandering around in the city of our soul.

I sometimes wonder if The Passion doesn’t have the opposite effect, in that it imprisons Our Lord within a ‘movie’ in our minds.

Jesus said He was the Son of God. Jesus then said He is the bread and wine. He said to eat His flesh. He said He would return the way He left. He never said He would be a movie.

 

[Dredgemate]

You’ve got it all wrong!! *Willie Wonka and the Chocolate Factory *is the second coming. Think about it, a magical place with mysterious caretakers, Evil doers are cast out for eating forbidden candy. A loving guardian who allows you to have free will, but will punish you for indescretions unless you repent. It’s all there. Can’t you people see the light?

 

[Phoenix_7]

Pace,
I’m of the opinion that you very much want this film to be about the Second Coming. There have been many people posting reasons why this film is not about the Second Coming, and you seek to prove them wrong. I don’t think it’s possible for anyone to convince you that *Mulholland Drive *is not about the Second Coming. Since Christ ascended into heaven, mankind has been obsessed with trying to predict when and how the Second Coming will be, even though Christ clearly stated that no one knows the day or the hour, not even the angels in heaven. Only God. So please, stop trying to find ways to predict the Second Coming, especially through Hollywood. Though I have not seen the movie, my guess is that Mulholland Drive is no more a prediction of the Second Coming than The Day After Tomorrow (which I own) is a prediction of the End of the World or a portrayal of Christ.

 

[km112482]

Though i have not seen this movie it sounds like the Anti-Christ to me.

I will be praying for whoever this poster is who is so obsessed with this. I guess I am left out of the second coming cause I have never heard or watched this movie in my whole life.

I mean I seriously think you need to seek help if it is your lifes purpose to prove that this movie is the second coming. If it was then dont you think we would all know it.

Stop obsessing over something no one knows the time or day of or has any control over except God

Kerri

 

[jmv]

I always wondered why I had an affinity for Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory…

 

[jmv]

I always wondered why I had an affinity for Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory…

 

[Pace]

“Because movies are something we ALL have faith in”

Yeah right.

That’s one of the most ridicules posts I’ve read on this forum.

Movies are the first ‘art form’ that we can meet half way with our faith.

 

[Pace]

Neithan:

Mulholland Drive is a terribly warped movie. It does try to mess with your head…

What we have lost:

peterkreeft.com/topics/love-sees.htm

An explanation of the process by which we have recovered what we have lost (‘seeing sacramentally’ again):

thematthewshouseproject.com/film/mulhollanddrive.htm

 

[edwinG]

Pace:

If a skyscraper fell in the midst of a (spiritual) city and everybody (but one) refused to hear it, would it still make a sound? And would we call the one who did hear it obsessed for acknowledging it? Either *Mulholland Drive *is or is not what I claim it to be.

If you saw my other posts you will remember that I made the claim that David Lynch uses (allows) sin in *exactly *the same way that God uses sin. God’s world is rated NC-17, at least. It’s not the sin that is important, but the return from sin. This is what the great film directors have understood.

Hi Pace,
Let me defend God. God does not use sin. God does not allow sin. In fact God cries when you fall into sin. God is love and He supplies His love to both the good and the evil. He blesses those who trust in Him. Can you give me an example of God using sin? I dont know of any.
Walk in love
Grow in Christ
edwinG

 

[Pace]

edwinG:

Hi Pace,
Let me defend God. God does not use sin. God does not allow sin. In fact God cries when you fall into sin. God is love and He supplies His love to both the good and the evil. He blesses those who trust in Him. Can you give me an example of God using sin?

Edwin,

I think you described it in a more beautiful way by saying, “God is love and He supplies His love to both the good and the evil. He blesses those who trust in Him”.

But I think we must believe that every sin ever commited, and even every sin not yet commited, is ‘rubber-stamped’ (for lack of a better word) by God. Now, why does he rubber-stamp them? Because he realises that it is what that particular sinner needed at that particular moment (the shock/pain of the sin), and he forsees that the damage of that particular sin will somehow be outweighed by greater goods.

The three major life questions that we all must face (the three deepest questions that the Devil torments us with) ,I think, are answered perfectly by the Lynch movies, and particularly Mulholland Drive. They are:

Why did God say yes to starting up this tragic world?

Why did God let our first parents sin and mess everything up?

Why did God let me be born by my immediate parents into this horrible place?

We can either believe that God allowed these things because he wanted to torture us, or we can believe what you wrote about him above.

We need to learn how to distinguish God’s face from the Devil’s face. This is what Mulholland Drive helps us do.

 

[Pace]

edwinG:

Hi Pace,
Let me defend God. God does not use sin. God does not allow sin. In fact God cries when you fall into sin. God is love and He supplies His love to both the good and the evil. He blesses those who trust in Him. Can you give me an example of God using sin? I dont know of any.
Walk in love
Grow in Christ
edwinG

edwinG,

I like your description better. But, don’t we have to believe that God is there, in the midst of every sin?

 

[edwinG]

Pace:

edwinG,

I like your description better. But, don’t we have to believe that God is there, in the midst of every sin?

Hi Pace, No we dont have to believe that God is there in the midst of every sin. Everyone can believe what they choose to believe. Then it is true for them and on what they believe they will be judged.
But that God is in the midst of every sin is the oppostite of the truth. There is no sin in God and He is not in the midst of any sin.
Let me explain by witnesses to you.
I was bitten by a dog. I am a practising christian who follows the leading of the Holy Spirit.
This is a lesson in how much God loves all creation.
I came home from prayers on a Friday night and this savage guard dog who likes me did his usual small bark bark when I came home and so I did the usual thing and went over to pat him. Normally he loves this so much he ends up on the ground in sheer joy. This night just after I started patting him he looked funny and then attacked my hand. I had to go to a doctor and have a series of anti rabies shots etc and some dressing changes etc. I had about 7-9 puncture wounds but no stitches. It transpired that the owners starve the dog to make him savage and I had eaten a hamburger before and he could smell it on my hand.
What is the lesson.
God knows that this dog is going to bite someone or some people very seriously in the future. He has been trying to tell the owners to feed the dog and to look after it and love it. I discovered the owners guilt because I spoke to them and asked them to feed the dog, to love the dog as it was in danger of biting someone seriously. They also run a small kindergarten for about 14 toddlers. They told me they always keep the dog in the cage when their children are outside.
So because the owners wouldn’t listen to the Holy Spirit He withdrew His protection from me. Outside His protection I was an easy victim, but because I listen to the Holy Spirit I became His witness.
Now God in His love does not want the dog to suffer. He also has gone to considerable trouble to keep the owners of the dog from being embroiled in possible legal problems etc etc. He is also trying to save the future victim/ victims. Can you see how much anguish can over come maybe 60 or so people ( those caught up in this , friends relatives officials) just because some one doesnt follow God’s will in love.
To stop all of this the people only have to feed the dog. God is trying to stop the pain, hurt anger costs etc. He only acts in love. There is no sin in Him. Apply this to the whole world and all its actions.
Walk in love
obey Christ in God
edwinG

 

[MaggieOH]

Mulholland Drive is like the Eucharist. We receive it through our eyes and ears. It is in the disguise of a movie. This is what makes it possible that all people can receive it. After it is willingly let inside of us we are forced to identify who it is we have let inside. Because the thing we have let inside is a living thing freely wandering around in the city of our soul.

I sometimes wonder if The Passion doesn’t have the opposite effect, in that it imprisons Our Lord within a ‘movie’ in our minds.

Pace, you have it all wrong. Mulholland drive is a B grade movie. It is a movie. It is not about the second coming of Christ. It comes from a script writer’s imagination and it is made real by a bunch of actors who have been paid to take on these roles.

This whole question is just too frivolous.

MaggieOH

 

[Dredgemate]

Pace:

Will you think I’m crazy?

Pretty much

Pace:

Will you think it’s not worth your time to investigate?

Yup, I’ve come to that conclusion.

Pace:

Will you get bored?

:yawn: I’m sorry, were you saying something?

Pace:

Will you think it’s obviously a sin to ask such a thing?

I don’t think it’s a sin to ask if I’ll get bored.

Pace:

Will you not realise that I am dead serious?

I’m laughing too hard to consider you serious.

Pace:

Will you walk past me like I was a bum?

Only if you ask me for some spare change.
Pace}...when I ask the ultimate apologetics question::

Mulholland Drive

the Second Coming of Jesus Christ?

 

[teresas1979]

Originally posted by MaggieOH:
I have not even heard of this movie Mulholland Drive and that shows what a non-event it happens to be. Might a suggest that a visit to a psychotherapist might be in order to get rid of this obsession.

I am a movie goer so to speak. I’m 25 years old and I go to the cinema and rent DVD’s all the time. I am shocked that someone such as myself knows so little of this supposed life-changing film. So don’t feel bad Maggie, I am someone who is “out there” for want of a better phrase, and I have only heard of the film (it was at the cinema here in Sheffield, England for 1 week only, inferring it is terrible!)

The most disconcerting point the original poster seems to make is the comparison between David Lynch and Jesus Christ. Now I know of some internet wackos who believe they are the Second Coming, but a film or film director makes even some of them sound vaguely plausible by comparison

 

[Ahimsa]

Pace:

Will you think I’m crazy?
Will you think it’s not worth your time to investigate?
Will you get bored?
Will you think it’s obviously a sin to ask such a thing?
Will you not realise that I am dead serious?
Will you walk past me like I was a bum?

…when I ask the ultimate apologetics question:

Is the movie Mulholland Drive the Second Coming of Jesus Christ?

I must disrespectfully disagree. The Thin Red Line is the movie to watch. It will resolve all of your burning eschatological, soteriological, and neurotheological questions in a manner not seen since Abraham’s reception of the Five Commandments on the Great Pyramind.

 

[Genesis315]

Ahimsa:

I must disrespectfully disagree. The Thin Red Line is the movie to watch. It will resolve all of your burning eschatological, soteriological, and neurotheological questions in a manner not seen since Abraham’s reception of the Five Commandments on the Great Pyramind.

And I must respectfully disagree with you. Mindwalk is the best movie for all that stuff.

 

[st_felicity]

Genesis315:

And I must respectfully disagree with you. Mindwalk is the best movie for all that stuff.

Nuh-unh…Napolean Dynamite!!! Gooooshhhhch!

 

[Pace]

st_felicity:

You seem like a peacable guy, you’re not hostile, seem genuine…that’s why I fear there is some organic illness going on here…

~What does your family think of your revelation?
~What do your friends think?
~Has **anyone you know **come to understand where you’re coming from on this?
~Do you have a movement started–not just internet stuff–do you meet and worship?
~What is it that you hope to accomplish?
~Have you considered that maybe you are delusional?

I don’t mean that disrespectfully–please think about it…

Answer any or all of these, I’m sure it would help enlighten us.

st_felicity,

I appreciate your honest questions. It’s very difficult to answer them, though, because if what I claim to be ‘seeing’ is truly there, then it seems to follow that such a thing can happen only twice per world. Here is my theory about that:

Jesus came and redeemed our real world. Yet there was still left after that the possibility that we could create and enter another world. I guess this would be called, and has been called, our subconsious. But ‘the movies’ (i.e. certain types of movies) seem to be our creation of a new God-less universe. This was so with each and every movie, to a lesser or greater degree, because each and every movie was in some way imperfect. God’s real universe here is a perfect universe, because of Christ’s coming. So, to redeem the universe we have created to escape His “awful” real universe (do you recall the line fromMulholland Drive : “To get rid of this God-awful feeling”?) God had to find a way to enter. Yet this new Universe, or re-entered Eden, of ours is guarded by a demon with the flaming sword of our collective consciousness. Or something like that…

Anyway, this is why Christ had to come in the silent way (about his identity) of Mulholland Drive , rather than the conscious, noisy fanfare way of The Passion of the Christ.

If we would insist upon a “conscious Christ” that is possible, too. But that is a hard road, because the answer in that direction is Lars von Trier’s Dogville .

 

[Dredgemate]

Pace:

If we would insist upon a “conscious Christ” that is possible, too. But that is a hard road, because the answer in that direction is Lars von Trier’s Dogville .

Wait, So is that a third coming of Christ?