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eva6206213
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Really the good post!!!
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swariffin
Guest
Dear brother,Yes…that IS a simple answer!
And I sort of figured you would answer that way. I had hoped that in the context of the rest of the post it would be obvious that I was asking with regard to your dealings with non-Muslims, but okay.
Amy told us that the answer is to worship Allah. I really wonder how come she ever worship Allah if she does not face Allah? The only answer is that I fall into a trap without even reasoning what kind of trap it was. The other answer is Allah said so. Wow, they are even believing in Utsman version of Quran rather than a Mohammadian one. Well, perhaps Muhammad was not bad at all, it was Utsman who did.
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swariffin
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Ok then, I don’t want to push further. I will conclude that it is Allah Himself who ordered you people to direct your prayer into a stone. If you are happy with that, that is fine with me. If you cannot call your own logic and curiousity, because Allah said so, then it is your business.
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swariffin
Guest
If I were into such situation, I will face anywhere because I believe that God is there in front of me, not far away in Mecca. If you were in that situation, will you still pray or you won’t?
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planten
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**Wandering ideas, vague thoughts do not help any discussion. “Perhaps this, perhaps that” is no good. Could you please tell me how you face Allah?
The order for the Muslim prayer is not only to face the Ka’abah but the word used means “To face Allah with mind too, with the utmost thinking. Our thoughts should be towards Allah in addition to facing the Ka’abah”. The word used is “Wajjih” which is part of “Tawajjuh” which means thoughts and intentions and attention.
Now you please tell how you could face God?
The reason for facing Ka’abah is different. It will be explained to you soon.**
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Sister_Amy
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Indeed–I can’t think of a single scholar who would disagree with you. And this is something that actually happens, I think. If there is no way to determine which direction to face, do what is easiest, or try your best, make your best guess, and make your intention regardless.I always face the direction that my face is pointing
I would think that it would not matter in that case. Surely Allah would understand.
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Sister_Amy
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I never became a Muslim to deal with “non-Muslims” in any particular way. I only became a Muslim to worship God.Yes…that IS a simple answer!
And I sort of figured you would answer that way. I had hoped that in the context of the rest of the post it would be obvious that I was asking with regard to your dealings with non-Muslims, but okay.
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Sister_Amy
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Into a stone? LOL
I will wait now for you to argue with Jews about why they face to face Jerusalem in their prayers.
More to the point, if God commands something, who are you to dispute it?
There’s a story of someone who did that… God told him to bow… and he said no…
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inJESUS
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cathopologist
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So as a former Protestant, you never worshiped God?I never became a Muslim to deal with “non-Muslims” in any particular way. I only became a Muslim to worship God.
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dzheremi
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Wandering ideas, vague thoughts do not help any discussion.
Well, if this isn’t the world’s most glaring instance of the pot calling the kettle black…!
Sister Amy;4403662:
OK, now I’m just confused…is it opposite day around here? Sister Amy, you answering like Planten would answer. How very disappointing. It takes an awful lot of willful ignorance to answer my post in this manner…obviously nobody becomes a Muslim/Christian/Jew/whatever to deal with non-believers in a certain way! That is the most ridiculous idea ever. This question, in the context of the post from which it was taken, was asking how it is that a Muslim, with their ultimate faith in the will and wisdom of Allah, could actually transform their unwillingness to answer questions about their religion into a point about how much better it is to not answer questions than it is to seek answers. Questions on a messageboard seem like the most benign thing in the world, assuming they’re asked in good faith, so I couldn’t help but ask: Is there something that your faith in Allah does not allow you to say or do? How is it that Islam is so great if you’re paralyzed by fear of being judged just for stating an opinion of what, to the best of your knowledge, is correct? Allah cares about intention, doesn’t He? I can understand not wanting to embarrass yourself or pass along bad information, but I guess this is another thing that boils down to a lack of central authority: in many cases, conflicting viewpoints seem to leave Muslims without a clear answer, so they choose the one that the people they study with give them. So the non-believer hears that the Qur’an is uncreated…or it isn’t…well, it really depends…I never became a Muslim to deal with “non-Muslims” in any particular way. I only became a Muslim to worship God.
Again, that’s fine. It just strikes me as odd that someone believing in the almighty, one God would clam up as you have, and then defend that by saying it is the best of all reactions or answers. It is the safest maybe, but then that leads back to my question: What does Islam equip you to do for God? To leave people looking into Islam with more questions than answers? To do that which is most comfortable in the propagation of the faith?, etc. I realize how very rude these questions may sound, and I am sorry for that, but I can’t think of a nice way to put them, because that really is what went through my mind when trying to contrast the willingness I see here on the part of the Christians here to answer a million and one silly, leading questions from Planten, Analyzer, etc., and your apparently Islamically-justified unwillingness to answer this ONE.
So, it is not really even about the unbelievers in the end…like everything else it comes back to God. Does Allah give you the wisdom to speak to others from your heart, and the intelligence and dilligence to seek out what you don’t know, even as that takes a lifetime? I have to believe He does. He’s God! He is never the source of ignorance or indecisiveness, is He? (That’s a real question…maybe He is in Islam? I know the Qur’an calls Him the Greatest of “Plotters” or something similar…kind of an oddly sinister word choice, at least for the English translation!)
If I get to heaven (God-willing), I don’t want to have to answer for a life of sitting on the fence, being meek and indecisive as others around me do the job of bringing humanity to the Lord. What if I am the only Christian a person meets in their entire life? Similarly, what if you’re the only Muslim that someone meets? Isn’t the greatest thing that you can do to show your love of God to bring more of His children back to Him?
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planten
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Very good, sis Amy. You have reminded the christians about the devil. There is not to be any question as to why did God command something…Into a stone? LOL
I will wait now for you to argue with Jews about why they face to face Jerusalem in their prayers.
More to the point, if God commands something, who are you to dispute it?
The Jews had the direction. So do Muslims. It is the church which is the odd one out. Church should explain their wayward behaviour.
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planten
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This topic about the Quran being created is a very difficult one. Most of the time the real reasons are not clear and present in our minds. It is a difficult subject. But one of our very early Muslim scholar (Imam Malik) setteled it that Quran is not created. He was even punished by the that time ruler. But he insisted that Quran was not created.
Some good Muslim friend here rightly described the quran as having been revealed. The matte ris not clear in my mind too. But I will surely present something about this topic soon. Pls wait.
Some good Muslim friend here rightly described the quran as having been revealed. The matte ris not clear in my mind too. But I will surely present something about this topic soon. Pls wait.
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swariffin
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You must face Allah at all time and never be away from Him. That is a true submission to Allah. It is good that Allah is omnipresent as you also believe (but other muslims don’t). So, you can talk to Allah (in prayer) whereever and whenever you are. Not even limited to 5 times a day (6 if you include the Tahajud). Why do i have to face Allah and find any suitable direction? It is not necessary. Allah is everywhere. Whatever direction I am facing, I will face Allah. Moreover, Allah will find ANY HUMAN who is looking for Him. That is a good news, is it not? But, for sure, never to face to any direction where you KNOW that Allah is not there.
I completely agree 100% with the “Wajjih”. Whenever you are communicating to Allah, you must put all your thought, intention and attention, only to Allah. You should never ever pray to Allah while thinking about food, for example, let alone thinking about having revenge.
I still disagree of why Allah ever commands you to face Kaaba while you admit that Allah is not there. As you promissed me, to give an explanation, I am happy and looking forward to your reply.
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swariffin
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My Goodness, it is YOU who said that Allah commands the muslim to face Kaaba (which physically is a rectangular stone building). It is YOU who said that it is Allah’s command. Now, when I rephrase YOUR word, you deny it. If you have other explanation or if my conclusion is wrong, please tell me. I am glad to listen.Into a stone? LOL
I will wait now for you to argue with Jews about why they face to face Jerusalem in their prayers.
More to the point, if God commands something, who are you to dispute it?
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swariffin
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At least the Jew can give a reasonable answer. Not just simply saying “God says so”.
I am really wonder about your consistency. You told me that you believe that God is omnipresent. That is why the Church never teach to pray to a specific place/object. Are you sure about your believe that Allah is omnipresent??
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inJESUS
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at least it shows Allah can still be one even if the Quran is eternal and uncreated and not Allah.
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planten
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**swariffin, that is no excuse for church not to have any center or direction of place of worship. Jews and christians and Muslims all believe that God is Omnipresent. Yet the Jews and Muslims have a direction. It proves that the religion of Jews and Muslims is right. The religion created by the earlier christians did not have any bearing.
They did not know anything. They did not know that their religion will spread all over the world and that christians will be praying all over the world. Otherwise (had they known it) they would have surely given you some direction. **
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rad
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But ancient christianity does they face east, orthodox christians do even now…toward jerusalem or the rising sun in the east ,were Christ the Son of God the true eternal light shall decend with a shout and a mighty trumphet,at his second coming as supreme lord and God to judge the living and the dead whose kingdom shall have no end…
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Reuben_J
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It is amazing what goes through this guy’s mind! Very democratic, eh? Majority win.
Don’t you realize what a poor copycat your Mohammad was? He wanted to copy the Jews but ignorant on why the Jews did it. To the Jews, Jerusalem is symbolic – the dwelling place of the almighty God. Of course during your worship, it is obviously reasonable thing to do.
But Mohammad realized that the Arabs needed some object to face to when praying so that they must be different and better than the Jews. Finally Allah revealed that it should be the stone Kaaba. Wow! The Jews faced Jerusalem – Mount Zion the holy temple the symbol of the dwelling place of God. Muslims faced Mecca – the stone Kaaba the equaivalent of the dwelling place of Allah. Whatever Mohammad’s motive in choosing the Kaaba, it did not add up.
This is for the lurkers. Planten is beyond saved at this rate. Beside he did not do his Bible study today and so came up with this terrible howler.
“… you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth”. Acts 1:7
“Therefore go and make disciples of all nations …” Mt 28:19
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