The United Kingdom and Catholicism

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Sam20045

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Would it ever happen…that the United Kingdom would de-establish The Church of England and establish the Catholic Church as the Established Church in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland…with the British Monarch as a Catholic and the British Royal Family.

And the Archbishop of Cantebury being a Catholic Cardinal and who presides over the Coronation, also as the Primate of All England. With the Archbishop of York as a Catholic Cardinal as the Primate of England.

Have the Bishops in the House of Lords replaced with Catholic Bishops instead of Anglican.

And allow an exception in Canon Law for prelates in the Catholic Church in United Kingdom to allow the prelates to serve in public office… e.g. (Bishops in the House of Lords as Lords Spiritual)

Have Crown-owned churches called Royal Peculiars such as Westminster Abbey and the chapel at Windsor Castle be Catholic and not Church of England.

Could it ever be so?
 
Or even instill the Doctrine of the Divine Right of Kings…that The Monarch is ordained by God as Sovereign and ruler of their nation.

Have the Monarch be a faithful Catholic that attends Sunday Mass and frequent Confession and Eucharstic Adoration and attends Holy Days of Obligation and also observes moral theology who acknowledges the Supremacy of The Pope as the Sucessor of St Peter who is Bishop of Rome and Vicar of Christ holding universal jurisdiction over the Church and its believerers…the Body of Christ…

And give the title of Most Catholic King/Queen

And allow white to be worn in the presence by a Queen Regnant or Consort.
 
Sam20045 said:
Would it ever happen…that the United Kingdom would de-establish The Church of England and establish the Catholic Church as the Established Church in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland…with the British Monarch as a Catholic and the British Royal Family.

Could it ever be so?
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I hope not. It is a nightmare ! Christ is the Winner, He does not need all that pomp !
I tell you the story I have mentioned here before.
I was years ago in London, in Camden Town. We were searching for a Sunday Mass and saw a beautiful Gothic Church that said that the Mass would be in 10 minutes. Before us there was that limping old lady, who entered the church and was met by a man and a woman, the only people in the church. She asked whether it was a Catholic Church and the man said no she sighed and said that Go was the same and she was tired and she would not move from there. As a foreigner I as shy and though I understood the answer I asked whether there was a Catholic Mass, please, sorry, and the man told me where to go, more a dozen of sorries for not being High Anglican Church (HAC) member (which I discovered then) and the man was polite, no problem and off I went leaving the HAC with a limping Catholic lady to attend the ceremony. In a few strides I found an horrible looking Catholic Church of dubious taste crowded with people who sang at full lungs, prayed, went to communion and I was mystified. I thought England was the place of Protestants and Anglicans and I was dumfounded.

Later on I visited Westminster Abbey which was transformed from a beautiful Gothic Church into a museum of Kings and Queens and whatsoever, you cannot move around without finding a tomb. And had the privilege of going to mass at Westminster Cathedral, of…believe it or not … byzantine Style. I have attended masses all over Europe: Madrid, Paris, Rome, Wien, Cologne, Zurich, Lisbon, Berlin, Munich. I was moved and My waife moved to tears at the beauty of this mass. thwe whole crowd sang at full lungs, and in one hymn, so beautiful it was, that the organist stepped into the pedal and the whole Cathedral echoed so strongly that an old lady in front of me looked back to see what was happening to the organist: I knew it, hewas moved too. I will never forget the strength of British Catholics and their devotion in the church, their going into communion, their singing, their prayers.

So, I would leave the King and Queen, and the house of the Lords the ones who are there. for Catholics, these perks are cumbersome. We had a Catholic King, Henry the VIII, and look what happened. I would continue to rely on what the British Catholics rely on: Jesus Christ.

As for splendor and magnificence, I will keep the British Masses. If you go to London, you may miss the Big Ben and the Tower of London, the British Museum and Tate Gallery. Don’t miss mass at Westminster Cathedral (leave something for it is still incomplete) or even if it is of dubious architecture, mass in any other Church.
 
The idea of a Catholic established Church was tried for a number of centuries in England/Wales and Scotland, and it did not turn out all that well. It would be hard to get a consensus around the burning people thing for example. Also I think you will find that the C of E is the established Church for England and Wales only. You would have the issue of the Scots to sort out also and they can be less than accepting of this sort of thing, with their numerous strands of Presbyterianism. Ireland took up with the Catholic Church in gaining independence, but from recent reports that has not been quite as successful as hoped, either. There is also the problem of replacing the current royals with those who descend from the deposed Catholics of the House of Stuart. Somehow I think free, democratic and secular has a nice ring to it.
 
Sam20045 said:
Would it ever happen…that the United Kingdom would de-establish The Church of England and establish the Catholic Church as the Established Church in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland…with the British Monarch as a Catholic and the British Royal Family.

And the Archbishop of Cantebury being a Catholic Cardinal and who presides over the Coronation, also as the Primate of All England. With the Archbishop of York as a Catholic Cardinal as the Primate of England.

Have the Bishops in the House of Lords replaced with Catholic Bishops instead of Anglican.

And allow an exception in Canon Law for prelates in the Catholic Church in United Kingdom to allow the prelates to serve in public office… e.g. (Bishops in the House of Lords as Lords Spiritual)

Have Crown-owned churches called Royal Peculiars such as Westminster Abbey and the chapel at Windsor Castle be Catholic and not Church of England.

Could it ever be so?
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I don’t think so. With the way things are over here for the Church at the present, we’re more likely to end up in the Colosseum than Westminster Abbey.
 
Sam20045 said:
Would it ever happen…that the United Kingdom would de-establish The Church of England and establish the Catholic Church as the Established Church in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland…with the British Monarch as a Catholic and the British Royal Family.

And the Archbishop of Cantebury being a Catholic Cardinal and who presides over the Coronation, also as the Primate of All England. With the Archbishop of York as a Catholic Cardinal as the Primate of England.

Have the Bishops in the House of Lords replaced with Catholic Bishops instead of Anglican.

And allow an exception in Canon Law for prelates in the Catholic Church in United Kingdom to allow the prelates to serve in public office… e.g. (Bishops in the House of Lords as Lords Spiritual)

Have Crown-owned churches called Royal Peculiars such as Westminster Abbey and the chapel at Windsor Castle be Catholic and not Church of England.

Could it ever be so?
Click to expand...
No. It will never happen because politicians play a role in disestablishment. And, judging by their effort to de-spiritualise Parliament, why would they want to replace Ecclesial Law Lords who bow whichever way the wind blows?

Were it not for the anonymous letter in 1605…😉
 
Acapiteadcalcem said:
I don’t think so. With the way things are over here for the Church at the present, we’re more likely to end up in the Colosseum than Westminster Abbey.
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what concerns me even more is the question is that in the case of war as in the last one would one’s loyalty be to religion or King and/or Country - this was a not so well appreciated problem with Italy siding with the Germans and the allies bombing monte carlo and then probably the Vatican etc and now most countries are multi racial and multi cultural etc - twinc
 
Sam20045 said:
Would it ever happen…that the United Kingdom would de-establish The Church of England and establish the Catholic Church as the Established Church in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland…with the British Monarch as a Catholic and the British Royal Family.

And the Archbishop of Cantebury being a Catholic Cardinal and who presides over the Coronation, also as the Primate of All England. With the Archbishop of York as a Catholic Cardinal as the Primate of England.

Have the Bishops in the House of Lords replaced with Catholic Bishops instead of Anglican.

And allow an exception in Canon Law for prelates in the Catholic Church in United Kingdom to allow the prelates to serve in public office… e.g. (Bishops in the House of Lords as Lords Spiritual)

Have Crown-owned churches called Royal Peculiars such as Westminster Abbey and the chapel at Windsor Castle be Catholic and not Church of England.

Could it ever be so?
Click to expand...
Why do you think anyone here is able to answer such a question?
 
Sam20045 said:
That would be great…

But The Monarch must I believe appoint the Archbishop of Canterbury with the approval of The Pope.
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This is incorrect!

Since the English Reformation, the Church of England is a state church and the choice of the Archbishop of Canterbury is legally that of the British crown. In recent times the choice is made in the name of the Sovereign by the Prime Minister, from a shortlist selected by the Crown Nominations Commission.

The Pope has zero to do with who is Archbishop of Canterbury.
 
twinc said:
what concerns me even more is the question is that in the case of war as in the last one would one’s loyalty be to religion or King and/or Country - this was a not so well appreciated problem with Italy siding with the Germans and the allies bombing monte carlo and then probably the Vatican etc and now most countries are multi racial and multi cultural etc - twinc
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correction - multi religious and multi cultural - a bit like muslims being sent to fight in Iraq,Afghanistan etc or a fifth column behind the lines etc - twinc
 
Sam20045 said:
Would it ever happen…that the United Kingdom would de-establish The Church of England and establish the Catholic Church as the Established Church in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland…with the British Monarch as a Catholic and the British Royal Family.

And the Archbishop of Cantebury being a Catholic Cardinal and who presides over the Coronation, also as the Primate of All England. With the Archbishop of York as a Catholic Cardinal as the Primate of England.

Have the Bishops in the House of Lords replaced with Catholic Bishops instead of Anglican.

And allow an exception in Canon Law for prelates in the Catholic Church in United Kingdom to allow the prelates to serve in public office… e.g. (Bishops in the House of Lords as Lords Spiritual)

Have Crown-owned churches called Royal Peculiars such as Westminster Abbey and the chapel at Windsor Castle be Catholic and not Church of England.

Could it ever be so?
Click to expand...
You’d have a better chance setting up the Catholic Church as the official church of the United States, IMO. Except for some pockets, Britain seems to be dead set in stone on mandating English in all liturgies and women in ministry inter alia. As I’ve mentioned before, I’m email friends with a female woman pastor there (Little Paxton, to be specific) who works on a voluntary basis and is quite passionate with her prayers and sermons, with some of them being quite good. Are all these ministries going to evaporate? I don’t think so.

Furthermore, I just can’t see the Anglicans giving back all the properties which Henry VIII confiscated without some “compensation.” Not in the near future anyway.
 
No.

Having the “official” Church of England completely dismantled and having only Catholic would cause a little bit of a stir. As I’m sure you know several areas voluntarily have joined the faith because of friction over allowing women Bishops and that got a huge amount of news coverage here. Also, as the Queen is the Head of the Church of England changing all this will require it to go through parilment, it would also require a huge reshuffle of how parliment works (members of the CofE sit in the House of Lords, and the Queen has to sign any laws that are passed/agree to any new cabinet).

People are also very proud of their Church of England as a symbol of national heritage. Right now, people are already uneasy about cultural identity because of a huge rise in immigration, particularly from Poland and also Islamic people, some neo-Nazi parties like the BNP or borderline ones like UKIP are also praying on the public’s dislike of being a member of the EU. Britian has a long history of loving independence from Europe and we pretty much want to be left on our own as a nation, unless we’re going on holiday.

Also, the CofE doesn’t just exist in the UK, and the UK is part of a Commonwealth. We would have to ask Australia and Canada, for example, if its ok with them. They get a vote too. We’re already having to do this to ask if they’re ok with us changing the rules of succession.

Not only that, but there isn’t a demand for it. Perhaps if the CofE continues to push for women bishops as it has done then the schism will get worse and it’ll shrink, but it will always be sustained by tradition, statistics (most Churches are CofE anyway), royal favouritism (they HAVE to be CofE) and national identity.

That’s my opinion as a British person myself.
 
thistle said:
Why do you think anyone here is able to answer such a question?
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I agree with the poster below you, I think it was more of a hopeful musing.

Us Britons who lurk around in here can answer you, but I’m not sure an answer is wanted. More of a vent/I wonder if thread.
 
Well, the OP has a nice fantasy. Reality is quite different I’m afraid. Christianity is being pushed away from the public sphere quite forcefully these days.
 
At one time the Roman Catholic church was the state church of several countries. This meant that the state provided support, and it also meant that the civil authorities had a lot of control.

That kind of situation is actually condemned with Gallicanism. I am sure the church would welcome the financial support, and the help suppressing other churches might be nice, but the interference in church affairs would be unwelcome. The Pope does not want to hand back that kind of control.

An interesting possibility has occurred to me though. Westminster Abbey is not part of the church of England, it is what is known in legal terms as a “Royal Peculiar”, (I think there are a few others as well, like the Temple church). Church of England hierarchs have no authority.

If the Royal Family was to become Roman Catholic (provided it was ever legally allowed) and the Church of England was probably disestablished by that point, the King or Queen could put Roman Catholic Benedictines back in there. It might be unpopular with the average Brit, but I think that it is possible.
 
Sam20045 said:
Or even instill the Doctrine of the Divine Right of Kings…that The Monarch is ordained by God as Sovereign and ruler of their nation.
.
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I think that the First World War proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is no such thing as the divine right of kings. The Kaiser of Germany, the Tsar of Russia and the Emperor of Austria-Hungary, Franz Joseph, were all more than willing to send millions of men to their death, destroy nations and families and even turn their armies on their own people to preserve the political status quo of their empires.
 
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