The United Methodist Church has appointed a transgender deacon

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thephilosopher6 said:
Prima Scriptura is still heretical and they are indeed interpreting it without the authority of the Catholic Church so yes, they are interpreting it on their own without any valid authority.
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Well remember, they reject the authority of the Catholic Church to be the sole interpreter of scripture. Just as every non-Catholic branch of Christianity does 😉

Which again doesn’t mean individuals are off interpreting on their own. Interpretation still occurs in a council like environment with the churches I listed earlier.
 
Memaw said:
Yes I do but I am a Catholic and it has been this way for over 2,000 years in the Catholic Ordination of male Priests. Can’t change to suit the times. One of us has to be wrong in our interpretation. God Bless, Memaw
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Maybe… maybe not. 🤷
 
Padres1969 said:
Well remember, they reject the authority of the Catholic Church to be the sole interpreter of scripture. Just as every non-Catholic branch of Christianity does 😉

Which again doesn’t mean individuals are off interpreting on their own. Interpretation still occurs in a council like environment with the churches I listed earlier.
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No, Anglicanism is heretical and disobey the one true Catholic Church.
 
Padres1969 said:
Originally Posted by Memaw View Post
Yes I do but I am a Catholic and it has been this way for over 2,000 years in the Catholic Ordination of male Priests. Can’t change to suit the times. One of us has to be wrong in our interpretation. God Bless, Memaw

Maybe… maybe not. 🤷
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so…you are hedging…🤷

But you think the Catholic Church is wrong…right? You just do not want to say it? 🤷
 
Sy_Noe said:
The Bible was still penned by imperfect human beings so no matter how much they were inspired, it can be argued that human beings can not help bringing at least some of themselves and their times into it and into their interpretations. But true enough, not everyone has everything right, if anyone does. But in faith we will know soon enough along out walks. God have mercy on us all. And may God bless you as well.
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Man may be imperfect but the Holy Spirit is NOT. That is exactly why Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to guide us in His Church. God Bless, Memaw
 
pablope said:
so…you are hedging…🤷

But you think the Catholic Church is wrong…right? You just do not want to say it? 🤷
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Nope, the Catholic Church is right within the structures and tradition of the Catholic Church. I wouldn’t presume to tell them they’re wrong for them.

But do I think my denomination is right within itself… definitely. Though as GKC would point out, there are Anglicans who would disagree with me.
 
Memaw said:
NO two ways about it, the TRUTH is the TRUTH!, Can’t be two (or more) truths. No such thing as ‘my’ truth verses ‘your’ truth. God Bess, Memaw
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On certain matters I’d agree that there is only one Truth… but not all. This is one I don’t see it as being a singular truth matter.
 
thephilosopher6 said:
No, Anglicanism is heretical and disobey the one true Catholic Church.
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Anglicanism, and Methodism, as overall faiths might be materially heretical from a Catholic POV. Though even the RCC doesn’t judge whether individual Anglicans or Methodists are thus.

And of course both churches and their adherents reject the notion that the RCC is the “one true church” as well, so…
 
Padres1969 said:
Nope, the Catholic Church is right within the structures and tradition of the Catholic Church. I wouldn’t presume to tell them they’re wrong for them.

But do I think my denomination is right within itself… definitely. Though as GKC would point out, there are Anglicans who would disagree with me.
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Yes.
 
Padres1969 said:
Anglicanism, and Methodism, as overall faiths might be materially heretical from a Catholic POV. Though even the RCC doesn’t judge whether individual Anglicans or Methodists are thus.

And of course both churches and their adherents reject the notion that the RCC is the “one true church” as well, so…
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We don’t necessarily see Anglicans and Methodist as formal heretical unless they were former Catholics who knowingly left for Protestantism, then they are indeed formal heretics because Anglicanism and Methodism are heresies. The fact that you reject the authority of the Catholic Church in her dogmas and morals and create your own makes your sects heretical. Thus you are a material heretic, unless you were once Catholic who left for the Anglican sect, then you’re a formal heretic.
 
thephilosopher6 said:
We don’t necessarily see Anglicans and Methodist as formal heretical unless they were former Catholics who knowingly left for Protestantism, then they are indeed formal heretics because Anglicanism and Methodism are heresies. The fact that you reject the authority of the Catholic Church in her dogmas and morals and create your own makes your sects heretical. Thus you are a material heretic, unless you were once Catholic who left for the Anglican sect, then you’re a formal heretic.
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Material or Formal, from a Catholic POV we’re all heretics none the less. And yes from a Catholic POV all Protestant faiths are heretical.
 
Padres1969 said:
While that is nice of you to say, the RCC sees all Protestants as heretics, regardless of being former Catholics or not. Material heretics mind, rather than formal (as a former Catholic such as myself would be), but heretics none the less from a Catholic POV. As yes from a Catholic POV all Protestant faiths are heretical.
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Yes, I affirmed that. I was clarifying. Protestantism is indeed heretical because heresy is something not of God but of human error. The Catholic Church is the bride of Christ, we are the mouthpiece of God and cannot err. Unfortunately, although we cannot officially judge the state of your soul, you being a formal heretic is a grave danger for you soul. I recommend and pray that you come back to the one true Church, confess your sins, and be reconciled to God.
 
Memaw said:
Man may be imperfect but the Holy Spirit is NOT. That is exactly why Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to guide us in His Church. God Bless, Memaw
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Yes I understand that faithful Catholics believe by faith and believe that they know it to be true that the Catholic Church is His one.
 
Padres1969 said:
Nope, the Catholic Church is right within the structures and tradition of the Catholic Church. I wouldn’t presume to tell them they’re wrong for them.

But by not acquiescing to the ordination of women priests…you are in effect telling the CC it is on the wrong side of things…🤷

So you are hedging again…🤷
But do I think my denomination is right within itself… definitely. Though as GKC would point out, there are Anglicans who would disagree with me.
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Padres1969 said:
On certain matters I’d agree that there is only one Truth… but not all. This is one I don’t see it as being a singular truth matter.
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You don’t see?? OK I understand, its up to you is it?? God Bless, Memaw
 
Memaw said:
You don’t see?? OK I understand, its up to you is it?? God Bless, Memaw
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It is up to the authority structure of the specific branch of the Church, in this case, the United Methodist Church. If you do not respect their history and authority, then their decisions make no sense. If you DO respect their authority, which comes from Scripture and their Foundational Documents (in part), then you should have no problems with their interpretation/discernment, and decision-making.
 
Padres1969 said:
pablope;14704307 said:
To answer your first question, no a council/synod does not make decisions based on a whim. What the issue I see here is I suspect what you view as whim and what I view as whim not being the same. It’s not contradiction, it’s difference of definition.
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I think it does not matter whatever whim it is…a whim is a whim…when you justify women ordination…that is still acting on your “whim” of what your interpretation of Scripture is…🤷
As for your question on JPII, I think he was probably moved by the spirit within the context of the Roman Catholic faith structure.
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Which is based on the fidelity to keep Apostolic Tradition…and should everyone not do the same thing?

Or is it each one according to one’s whims?

Whethere it is within the RC structure or not…there is only one Holy Spirit…unless you are now proposing several Holy Spirits…one leading the RCC and those who agree with it on women ordination and another Holy Spirit leading those advocating for women ordination…🤷

So, the Holy Spirit is on war with itself?🤷
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