The Universal Church

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If someone is a Byzantine Catholic, they have every right to refer themselves as “Orthodox in communion with Rome” since they share the same Liturgy, theology and spiritual life as the Orthodox.
If one is Orthodox, but is NOT in submission to the Roman Pontiff, or in communion with the Church subject to him, that is schism.
It takes two to tango. The schism is from within the Church, not outside of it.

ZP
 
@mcq72,

Two crucial innovations that aren’t from the BEGINNING of the Church:

1: Sola Fide

2: Sola Scriptura
 
Read again what Jesus did at the last supper. He changed mere bread and wine into His body and blood. While It looked like bread and wine after He consecrated them, they changed.

ποιεῖτε =
(a) make, manufacture, construct, (b) do, act, cause, to appoint or ordain one , to change one thing into another,
He did make, change one thing into another, appoint, ordain the elements, so that in Martyrs words, they are “no longer ordinary bread and wine”, but representative of the body of Christ broken for us, and His shed blood of the new covenant…in short, consecration to that end.

PS…and if you really want to get technical, He really changed ,fullfilled the the passover meaning of said elements to begin with…
 
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If someone is a Byzantine Catholic, they have every right to refer themselves as “Orthodox in communion with Rome” since they share the same Liturgy, theology and spiritual life as the Orthodox.
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steve-b:
If one is Orthodox, but is NOT in submission to the Roman Pontiff, or in communion with the Church subject to him, that is schism.
It takes two to tango. The schism is from within the Church, not outside of it.

ZP
It gets back to, you think they are both equal

It ignores the fact, one is over the other.
 
@mcq72,

🤔 You’re conceding the point?

As for our teaching consistently from the Apostolic basis: Yes, On Everything.

Your guys’ teaching is based on two highly unbiblical doctrines.

Solae Fide and Scriptura.

That eliminates the validity of your teaching. Plus, Luther’s altering of Romans 3:28 and butchering the Bible by removing seven books from the OT.

I have yet to see you successfully defend either.
 
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Yeah, you’re right @Isaac14.

Just like President Lincoln said in 1865 about the South: Let ‘em up easy.
 
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steve-b:
Read again what Jesus did at the last supper. He changed mere bread and wine into His body and blood. While It looked like bread and wine after He consecrated them, they changed.

ποιεῖτε =
(a) make, manufacture, construct, (b) do, act, cause, to appoint or ordain one , to change one thing into another,
He did make, change one thing into another, appoint, ordain the elements, so that in Martyrs words, they are “no longer ordinary bread and wine”, but representative of the body of Christ broken for us, and His shed blood of the new covenant…in short, consecration to that end.
He ordained His apostles to do the same as He did … to make the Eucharist happen out of bread and wine, just as Jesus did…

AND

It is to happen each time they meet.
 
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He ordained His apostles to do the same as He did … to make the Eucharist happen out of bread and wine, just as Jesus did…

AND

It is to happen each time they meet.
Ok, i would agree to that addition, from my eucharistic point of view also.
 
You’re conceding the point?
Which point…the arrow points to response to steves post about definition of “do”…absolutely…i see it fits like a glove as i pointed out per my understanding also.
 
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steve-b:
He ordained His apostles to do the same as He did … to make the Eucharist happen out of bread and wine, just as Jesus did…

AND

It is to happen each time they meet.
Ok, i would agree to that addition, from my eucharistic point of view also.
Except Re: secure & valid

Protestants can’t make the Eucharist happen. I refer back to my post to lanman87 HERE
 
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That’s true, @steve-b.

No Apostolic Succession, no valid priesthood and thus; no valid Sacraments beyond Baptism and Matrimony.

They’re all laymen.
 
That’s true, @steve-b.

No Apostolic Succession, no valid priesthood and thus; no valid Sacraments beyond Baptism and Matrimony.

They’re all laymen.
When considering conversion stories, THAT is one of many key points, people bring up.
 
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Yeah, I understand @steve-b.

For me, the keys were:

1: Our Lady and her Rosary

2: Luther altered Scripture
 
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