The Universal Church

[steve-b]

steve-b:

I didn’t say that.

Well either they are wrong or the church is wrong.

Jesus can be the ark for all those He saves. I have no problem with that.

 

[lanman87]

do this ……. ποιεῖτε

Definition:
(a) make, manufacture, construct , (b) do, act, cause, to appoint or ordain one , to change one thing into another,

Strongs which you link says the definition of the usage in Luke 22:19 is

to do (Latinago), i. e. to follow some method in expressing by deeds the feelings and thoughts of the mind;

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

do this ……. ποιεῖτε

Definition:
(a) make, manufacture, construct , (b) do, act, cause, to appoint or ordain one , to change one thing into another,

Strongs which you link says the definition of the usage in Luke 22:19 is

to do (Latinago), i. e. to follow some method in expressing by deeds the feelings and thoughts of the mind;

It says everything I posted.

 

[steve-b]

@Wannano and @mcq72,

With all due respect to our fellow Christians, what’s the misunderstanding?

We accept that your guys’ Baptisms, as long as they’re done with the Trinitarian formula; are valid and thus y’all are Christians. Though separated by imperfect communion and without any Apostolic Succession, valid priesthood and thus a valid Eucharist.

You guys ARE Christian and not like the disciples that left.

It’s more like you guys have faith in Jesus; just not the fullness with all seven Sacraments.

I’m not sure if this is an example of relativism, indifferentism, or latitudianarianism, or maybe all 3

Excerpt From Pius IX 1864

THE SYLLABUS OF ERRORS CONDEMNED BY PIUS IX
III. INDIFFERENTISM, LATITUDINARIANISM

1. Every man is free to embrace and profess that religion which, guided by the light of reason, he shall consider true. – Allocution “Maxima quidem,” June 9, 1862; Damnatio “Multiplices inter,” June 10, 1851.
2. Man may, in the observance of any religion whatever, find the way of eternal salvation, and arrive at eternal salvation. – Encyclical “Qui pluribus,” Nov. 9, 1846.
3. Good hope at least is to be entertained of the eternal salvation of all those who are not at all in the true Church of Christ. – Encyclical “Quanto conficiamur,” Aug. 10, 1863, etc.
4. Protestantism is nothing more than another form of the same true Christian religion, in which form it is given to please God equally as in the Catholic Church. –
   Encyclical “Noscitis,” Dec. 8, 1849.

 

[Wannano]

@Lenten_ashes1 gave this a like …maybe he can help you.

Edit:see next post

 

[Wannano]

@Wannano and @mcq72,

With all due respect to our fellow Christians, what’s the misunderstanding?

We accept that your guys’ Baptisms, as long as they’re done with the Trinitarian formula; are valid and thus y’all are Christians. Though separated by imperfect communion and without any Apostolic Succession, valid priesthood and thus a valid Eucharist.

You guys ARE Christian and not like the disciples that left.

It’s more like you guys have faith in Jesus; just not the fullness with all seven Sacraments.

This is what I meant to retrieve.

 

[mcq72]

I’m quoting the teachings of the Church that was THERE in the 1st century

And I am citing first century writings also.

 

[Wannano]

Well, thank you @TULIPed.

I’m just going in line with what I understand of Lumen Gentium.

It is unfortunate Michael is not here to answer for himself. I take it to mean that this is the current teaching of the Catholic Church. As such, isn’t it the responsibility of every Catholic to uphold the Church’s teaching? To argue Church teaching is to be divisive.

 

[Wannano]

Michael16:

@Wannano and @mcq72,

With all due respect to our fellow Christians, what’s the misunderstanding?

We accept that your guys’ Baptisms, as long as they’re done with the Trinitarian formula; are valid and thus y’all are Christians. Though separated by imperfect communion and without any Apostolic Succession, valid priesthood and thus a valid Eucharist.

You guys ARE Christian and not like the disciples that left.

It’s more like you guys have faith in Jesus; just not the fullness with all seven Sacraments.

I’m not sure if this is an example of relativism, indifferentism, or latitudianarianism, or maybe all 3

Excerpt From Pius IX 1864

THE SYLLABUS OF ERRORS CONDEMNED BY PIUS IX
III. INDIFFERENTISM, LATITUDINARIANISM

1. Every man is free to embrace and profess that religion which, guided by the light of reason, he shall consider true. – Allocution “Maxima quidem,” June 9, 1862; Damnatio “Multiplices inter,” June 10, 1851.
2. Man may, in the observance of any religion whatever, find the way of eternal salvation, and arrive at eternal salvation. – Encyclical “Qui pluribus,” Nov. 9, 1846.
3. Good hope at least is to be entertained of the eternal salvation of all those who are not at all in the true Church of Christ. – Encyclical “Quanto conficiamur,” Aug. 10, 1863, etc.
4. Protestantism is nothing more than another form of the same true Christian religion, in which form it is given to please God equally as in the Catholic Church. –
   Encyclical “Noscitis,” Dec. 8, 1849.

Does Michael interpret Lumen Gentium correctly?

 

[mcq72]

Ergo, if you were to worship YOUR communion elements,

When did we first start worshipping the consecrated elements? When did we start insisting they should only be held in gold cups and plates? When did we start parading beautiful gold monstrance as David did the ark ? Was a forefather wrong saying we are His monstrance?

 

[mcq72]

the thief, in massive agony himself, did ALL this before he dies .

Which came first, faith or the work? Did he show himself approved then was graced with faith and new life, as a down payment towards a fully glorified life in the next abode?

Faith alone does not deny works of repentance, of confession, for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks, a changed heart, a born again, new man.

Excerpt From Pius IX 1864

THE SYLLABUS OF ERRORS CONDEMNED BY PIUS IX
III. INDIFFERENTISM, LATITUDINARIANISM

Is this where I let go, depart, turn over such holders of said sentiments to equally forceful Chick sentiments?

 

[mcq72]

do this ……. ποιεῖτε

Definition:
(a) make, manufacture, construct , (b) do, act, cause, to appoint or ordain one , to change one thing into another,

Precisely, as Martyr suggests, “no longer ordinary bread and wine,” but blessed and designated as representative symbols of His literal flesh and blood in the new covenant.

Beautiful transference, change, and “appointment” of old to new covenant, of the Passover to the table of Calvary remebrance

 

[lanman87]

It says everything I posted.

It gives two definitions. If you go about half way down the page you will see Definition II and the Scripture that is using that definition.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[lanman87]

Jesus can be the ark for all those He saves. I have no problem with that.

So both Jesus and Mary are an ark?

 

[mcq72]

So both Jesus and Mary are an ark?

Co redeemers co arks?

Does it ever end?

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

the thief, in massive agony himself, did ALL this before he dies .

Which came first, faith or the work? Did he show himself approved then was graced with faith and new life, as a down payment towards a fully glorified life in the next abode?

Grace always comes 1st. Those who say works come first or one can work their way to heaven, is the heresy of Semi-Pelagianism (5th Century)

The good thief, was operating under grace. He was responding to grace

mcq72:

Faith alone does not deny works of repentance, of confession, for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks, a changed heart, a born again, new man.

As James said (paraphrased)

Faith without works is dead, and a dead faith won’t save.

Excerpt From Pius IX 1864

THE SYLLABUS OF ERRORS CONDEMNED BY PIUS IX
III. INDIFFERENTISM, LATITUDINARIANISM

mcq72:

Is this where I let go, depart, turn over such holders of said sentiments to equally forceful Chick sentiments?

Is Chick still alive?

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

I’m quoting the teachings of the Church that was THERE in the 1st century

And I am citing first century writings also.

I was responding to what you said here

“I dont think He would have had a problem conceived in flesh He created, fallen yet justified and sanctified as a Jewish maiden. Fitting for His mission of literally taking on sin (evil as you call it), all of it, even becoming it.”

You’re not citing 1st century writing, That is from YOU …

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

It says everything I posted.

It gives two definitions. If you go about half way down the page you will see Definition II and the Scripture that is using that definition.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Keep reading

ποιεῖτε​

ALSO means to be the author of a thing (to cause, bring about,) point to an actual result,

IOW, Jesus gave His apostles, at this point, the authority and power to DO exactly what He is doing, That is, to change bread and wine into His body and blood.

AND

That is to continue on … from/through apostolic succession

AND

I answered this 500+ posts ago HERE

 

[Lenten_ashes]

Not sure what is there to explain. Protestant Christians are not in full communion with us, but they are still Christians.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

People once argued in favor of books that were not inspired. The Church straightened it out like she always does. No different here or any other topic that arises.