The Universe did not have an absolute begining?

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I’m trying to get to the bottom line.
So far the best i can surmise of your answers is “salvation”
The great fear of not getting salvation.
If you go against the Magisterium your in deep trouble.
They know, just listen, you are way too stupid to think for yourself.
“Don’t you dare say that! Don’t you dare think that!”
Keep going, this is fun. I Don’t think you are as stupid as the Magisterium
thinks you. There is hope.
 
meinfinitist said:
]If you go against the Magisterium your in deep trouble.
They know, just listen, you are way too stupid to think for yourself.
“Don’t you dare say that! Don’t you dare think that!”
Click to expand...
Of course that’s not what’s being said!

It makes for entertaining hyperbole, and allows you to make fun of the Church, but that’s not at all what’s really going on…

But, since you brought up the subject, let’s explore it! 😉

The Church – that is, the magisterium or teaching authority – is the ‘expert’ in Christian theology. There are many experts in our lives: doctors tell us about proper diet, exercise, and therapies; mechanics tell us what we need to do to keep our cars running; PC techs tell us how to avoid computer viruses and how to get rid of them. Do they say “you’re too stupid to think for yourself! don’t you dare say this! don’t you dare say that!”…? Of course not! On the other hand, if you avoid listening to the advice of the experts… well, you’re responsible for the results you get – poor health, broken-down cars, PCs infected with malware. Why would you assert that that listening to the experts in theology – the Church – is any different? 😉
Keep going, this is fun. I Don’t think you are as stupid as the Magisterium
thinks you. There is hope.
Click to expand...
I don’t think you’re as stupid as you think the magisterium thinks you are, either. 😉 There is hope… 👍
 
me
**
If you go against the Magisterium your in deep trouble.
They know, just listen, you are way too stupid to think for yourself.**

Let’s take that to the next level. I think that when I was born I knew nothing. Everything I learned about God I learned from the Catholic Church. If I had been left alone as a child to piece together God, man, and human destiny, I would not have gotten very far; and as far as I got would probably be in all kinds of wrong directions. So yes, I would say that without the Magisterium I would be very stupid theologically. I don’t think God meant for that to be so. It stands to reason that he would leave us with a guide, a shepherd, to lead us down a way the devil cannot follow. In that sense, I am not stupid to follow. I would be stupid to follow rather the Prince of Darkness.
 
I see your point about having experts. But a real expert will say most likely I am right,
but I am willing to discuss and explain myself.
When thirty thousand people die every day of starvation, and there are seven billion
people in the world and the infallible position is still " we know better about your genitals
then you do."
In the time of early church the rules should have been different, no top of the mountain
force was needed for men and women (yes women) to realize that the world had to be populated. The job has been done. The rules should be changed.
The beautiful thing that is changing this world for the better is the www and audio video
recorders. When we are seen without our uniforms and an entourage of enforcers we realize we are all the same.
Thank you for listening
 
me

When thirty thousand people die every day of starvation, and there are seven billion
people in the world and the infallible position is still " we know better about your genitals
then you do."

I don’t understand the connection you are trying to make between the two parts of this sentence. What does one have to do with the other?
 
meinfinitist said:
I see your point about having experts. But a real expert will say most likely I am right,
Click to expand...
What will they say you are right about? Science does not contradict our faith, nor does faith contradict science. If a scientist says: I have not observed God, therefore He does not exist, he makes a philosophical statement that declares with absolute certainty something that was never claimed to be physically tangible or testable to begin with.
but I am willing to discuss and explain myself.
When thirty thousand people die every day of starvation, and there are seven billion
people in the world and the infallible position is still " we know better about your genitals
then you do."
In the time of early church the rules should have been different, no top of the mountain
force was needed for men and women (yes women) to realize that the world had to be populated. The job has been done. The rules should be changed.
Click to expand...
The rules of what? The rules of nature? Why do we have genitals? For fun? Do we define our nature and our existence? We can fight as hard as we like to redefine something, but in truth, the nature of things cannot change.
The beautiful thing that is changing this world for the better is the www and audio video
recorders. When we are seen without our uniforms and an entourage of enforcers we realize we are all the same.
Thank you for listening
Click to expand...
We are all the same inasmuch as we share in the human nature we have inherited and the image of our Creator. We cannot change our human nature: we are as we have been made. We cannot change that we are human, we cannot change what our organs are for, that we die, that we feel pain and suffering, and that we seek after meaning. The world grows old with change, while the Creator is forever young.

As to your infinitism, your claims of an infinite universe actually garner less tangible evidence than a universe with a finite age. You, proclaiming science and reason as the force behind your beliefs, have failed to provide actual philosophical or scientific evidence supporting your position.
 
What is the infallible position of the church on sexual enjoyment?
Sex sins. You don’t see that as control?
 
meinfinitist said:
What is the infallible position of the church on sexual enjoyment?
Sex sins. You don’t see that as control?
Click to expand...
If a person must always gratify sexual desire in order to be ‘free’, does this not also constitute a form of being controlled?

I have a question for you: In the case of pedophilia or bestiality, if there is an urge, is it proper to act upon it? Why or why not?
 
Good question, of course no.
But if you want to look at pictures of nude people, in a private place and
masterbate is it ok?
 
The other question about infinity, again how far away is the ceiling ?
 
meinfinitist said:
Good question, of course no.
Click to expand...
Why is the answer to bestiality or pedophilia ‘no’? What makes them different from masturbation? What makes them different from sex between a man and woman?

And what of my other question:

If a person must always gratify sexual desire in order to be ‘free’, does this not also constitute a form of being controlled?
The other question about infinity, again how far away is the ceiling?
Click to expand...
Which celing? The one above my head? Which units of measurement would you like? The ceiling is a finite distance above my head, according to the nature of the physical world, and can be measured by feet or meters or some other method of defining spatial distance. I’d guess the ceiling is about 20-25 feet above my head where I am located.
 
The ceiling.
The Hubble Ultra Deep Field shows us galaxies over thirteen billion light
years away. How far past that is the ceiling?
 
meinfinitist said:
But if you want to look at pictures of nude people, in a private place and masterbate is it ok?
Click to expand...
Well… what does it say about the meaning of sexuality – which has a biological purpose (the creation of new life) – that you take your sexuality and use it in a way that doesn’t include another person, and doesn’t get used in a way that meets its biological purpose?
 
Why do you mix up your idea of human sexuality with a mortal sin to dam you in hell
for eternity. Yes they do that to children, because they can’t be wrong because,
just because, the gifted men who had visions and can’t be wrong or change say so.
Behind closed door they determine this and you’d better not try to contradict them.

I’m sorry if i offend you.
You seem like a nice person.
 
meinfinitist said:
The ceiling.
The Hubble Ultra Deep Field shows us galaxies over thirteen billion light
years away. How far past that is the ceiling?
Click to expand...
Are you saying the universe expands an infinite distance, or saying that it has existed for an infinite amount of time? Those are two very different concepts. Also, 13 billion light years is a finite distance. I do not wager my faith and reason based on how far the universe may expand. Do you?

I have no idea how far the universe expands. Do you know for certain whether it goes on forever, enough so to make a belief system that revolves around it without sufficient philosophical and reasonable thought?
 
I have no idea how far the universe extends.
Like your take on God, you can’t prove it doesn’t go forever.
How about if the totality of this infinity were God.
He wouldn’t have to create it, would He.
We would all be a part of God.
We would be free to strive for non violence, we wouldn’t have to discipline the
contempters. We wouldn’t need this controlling “infallibility” claim.

thank you for listening
 
meinfinitist said:
I have no idea how far the universe extends.
Like your take on God, you can’t prove it doesn’t go forever.
How about if the totality of this infinity were God.
He wouldn’t have to create it, would He.
We would all be a part of God.
We would be free to strive for non violence, we wouldn’t have to discipline the
contempters. We wouldn’t need this controlling “infallibility” claim.

thank you for listening
Click to expand...
Your posts seem to be wandering off topic and onto unrelated matters. The belief that totality of the universe is God, is a form of pantheism. It would mean that God is a material being, that he is composed of many parts, that he could change, that he could come apart, that he is subject to entropy, that he is embedded in time and space. None of those things are compatible with the idea of God.

I recommend Frank J. Sheed’s “Theology for Beginners,” just as a starting point to get an idea of what must be the nature and attributes of God. A god made of of parts won’t work, not even an infinite number of parts.
 
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