The Unknown Christianity

[Seeker100]

Jesus came to our world so that we could have life. Jesus came into our world so that we can walk in the light if we choose to do so. Jesus came into our world so that we could serve Him in every person we meet. He came into our world so that we could meet and see Him in everyone on earth.

Unfortunately modern Christianity both Protestant and Catholic is largely oblivious to this. What a shame and what a loss. Their purpose is often totally blind.

Jesus came that we may have life. Whomsoever wants to drink, let him drink!!

 

[BluesPicker]

I imagine if we persevere and make it to Heaven we will be surprised at the ones who have gone before us because God judges people by what is in their Hearts.

 

[Bookcat]

Jesus came to our world so that we could have life. Jesus came into our world so that we can walk in the light if we choose to do so. Jesus came into our world so that we could serve Him in every person we meet. He came into our world so that we could meet and see Him in everyone on earth.

Unfortunately modern Christianity both Protestant and Catholic is largely oblivious to this. What a shame and what a loss. Their purpose is often totally blind.

Jesus came that we may have life. Whomsoever wants to drink, let him drink!!

Perhaps certain Christians …both Catholic and Protestant do not live enough of this reality…but those are certain ones…

The Catholic Church certainly proclaims and lives this…and many Protestants and their communities seek to follow Christ and walk in the light as well.

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/homilies/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20090411_veglia-pasquale_en.html

 

[Highwayhound]

Jesus came to our world so that we could have life. Jesus came into our world so that we can walk in the light if we choose to do so. Jesus came into our world so that we could serve Him in every person we meet. He came into our world so that we could meet and see Him in everyone on earth.

Unfortunately modern Christianity both Protestant and Catholic is largely oblivious to this. What a shame and what a loss. Their purpose is often totally blind.

Jesus came that we may have life. Whomsoever wants to drink, let him drink!!

On what are you basing your view of modern Christianity?

 

[chaunceygardner]

Jesus came to our world so that we could have life. Jesus came into our world so that we can walk in the light if we choose to do so. Jesus came into our world so that we could serve Him in every person we meet. He came into our world so that we could meet and see Him in everyone on earth.

Unfortunately modern Christianity both Protestant and Catholic is largely oblivious to this. What a shame and what a loss. Their purpose is often totally blind.

Jesus came that we may have life. Whomsoever wants to drink, let him drink!!

Tsk, Tsk. Don’t you know that it is not what Jesus did or said that is important; it is what doctrine you espouse. It is not whether you apply the commands of Jesus to your daily life, it is whether you perform all the rituals and rubrics properly that counts! What is the matter with you? What kind of Christian are you? Some kind of heretic?

Ah, yes, we have drifted far from the core teachings of Jesus, yet we say “we see”. Religion by formula rather than by real faith and understanding, and oblivious to our blindness.

Just in case anyone didn’t get it, I agree with the OP 100%.

 

[DL82]

I don’t think it’s so unknown. Don’t be so quick to judge.

All the same, I think sometimes we do forget the awesome gift we have been given in baptism and chrism (confirmation), by which we are annointed, Christians, sharers in the Chrism of Christ. Today’s Mass readings were about David’s concern for the anointing of Saul, and this is an image of the way all of us are anointed, that even in our failings, God sees the power and the potential that that anointing brings.

“Grace to you and peace be accomplished in the knowledge of God and of Christ Jesus our Lord. As all things of His divine power which appertain to life and godliness are given us through the knowledge of Him who hath called us by His own proper glory and virtue. By whom He hath given us most great and precious promises: that by these you may be made partakers of the divine nature: flying the corruption of that concupiscence which is in the world.” 2 Peter 1:2-4

Isn’t it amazing, we can conquer our concupiscence and become partakers of the divine nature.

It is far better than what the OP said, it’s not just about seeing and serving, it’s about being transformed. Pope Benedict warns in Caritas in Veritate against a charity that is no different to a collection of warm sentiments. Our charity, our Christian love, is white hot, coming straight from the source of all truth and love, from God himself. We can help others to be partakers of that divine nature too! It’s awesome.

To quote the wonderful Fulton Sheen “Our Lord did not come to make us ‘nice’, He came to make us new men!”

 

[Seeker100]

I imagine if we persevere and make it to Heaven we will be surprised at the ones who have gone before us because God judges people by what is in their Hearts.

Yes I am sure that one will see many “hidden” Christians that lead their unassuming lives for love. They never stood out in the public eye as moral superstars however God sees the commited heart and sees who is real.

 

[Seeker100]

I don’t think it’s so unknown. Don’t be so quick to judge.

All the same, I think sometimes we do forget the awesome gift we have been given in baptism and chrism (confirmation), by which we are annointed, Christians, sharers in the Chrism of Christ. Today’s Mass readings were about David’s concern for the anointing of Saul, and this is an image of the way all of us are anointed, that even in our failings, God sees the power and the potential that that anointing brings.

“Grace to you and peace be accomplished in the knowledge of God and of Christ Jesus our Lord. As all things of His divine power which appertain to life and godliness are given us through the knowledge of Him who hath called us by His own proper glory and virtue. By whom He hath given us most great and precious promises: that by these you may be made partakers of the divine nature: flying the corruption of that concupiscence which is in the world.” 2 Peter 1:2-4

Isn’t it amazing, we can conquer our concupiscence and become partakers of the divine nature.

It is far better than what the OP said, it’s not just about seeing and serving, it’s about being transformed. Pope Benedict warns in Caritas in Veritate against a charity that is no different to a collection of warm sentiments. Our charity, our Christian love, is white hot, coming straight from the source of all truth and love, from God himself. We can help others to be partakers of that divine nature too! It’s awesome.

To quote the wonderful Fulton Sheen “Our Lord did not come to make us ‘nice’, He came to make us new men!”

The annointing comes from the belief that Jesus is God.

 

[Seeker100]

Tsk, Tsk. Don’t you know that it is not what Jesus did or said that is important; it is what doctrine you espouse. It is not whether you apply the commands of Jesus to your daily life, it is whether you perform all the rituals and rubrics properly that counts! What is the matter with you? What kind of Christian are you? Some kind of heretic?

Ah, yes, we have drifted far from the core teachings of Jesus, yet we say “we see”. Religion by formula rather than by real faith and understanding, and oblivious to our blindness.

Just in case anyone didn’t get it, I agree with the OP 100%.

Thank you.

 

[dmelosi]

Tsk, Tsk. Don’t you know that it is not what Jesus did or said that is important; it is what doctrine you espouse. It is not whether you apply the commands of Jesus to your daily life, it is whether you perform all the rituals and rubrics properly that counts! What is the matter with you? What kind of Christian are you? Some kind of heretic?

Ah, yes, we have drifted far from the core teachings of Jesus, yet we say “we see”. Religion by formula rather than by real faith and understanding, and oblivious to our blindness.

Just in case anyone didn’t get it, I agree with the OP 100%.

The problem with your post is that you believe that it is either or.

The term fullness of faith you hear Catholics say, is that without a base of what is good and evil (which we get from the doctrine, the rubrics the very things you make fun of). It is very easy to stray and twist what is really good and evil when that very definition moves with the times instead of what Jesus taught.

The Catholic Church is the only Church that I know of that teaches that only God knows what is in your heart and who will get to heaven. I come back to that fullness of faith that gives a very solid moral base.

 

[Seeker100]

The problem with your post is that you believe that it is either or.

The term fullness of faith you hear Catholics say, is that without a base of what is good and evil (which we get from the doctrine, the rubrics the very things you make fun of). It is very easy to stray and twist what is really good and evil when that very definition moves with the times instead of what Jesus taught.

The Catholic Church is the only Church that I know of that teaches that only God knows what is in your heart and who will get to heaven. I come back to that fullness of faith that gives a very solid moral base.

One learns right from wrong from the Holy Ghost directly. Man’s ways should never step inbetween.

God teaches us now in our hearts as He always has. It is our choice if we listen to it. No church doctrine can ever replace the voice of the Lord.

 

[DL82]

One learns right from wrong from the Holy Ghost directly. Man’s ways should never step inbetween.

God teaches us now in our hearts as He always has. It is our choice if we listen to it. No church doctrine can ever replace the voice of the Lord.

That comes down to the question of whether you think that the promise Our Lord made in John 16:13 that the Holy Spirit would lead us into all truth was meant to be given to each individual Christian, or to the whole Church.

From the earliest times, the apostles were clear which was the correct interpretation:
The Church is “the pillar and foundation of the truth” 1 Timothy 3:15, Our Lord Himself makes the promise that whatever the apostles bind on earth will be bound in heaven (Matthew 18:18). This means that the Church’s ways are not “man’s ways” but the way of God. It’s hard to believe, but this is the depth of the riches of the mystery of the Incarnation, that in Christ, God’s ways and man’s ways converge, that God chooses to save man through man, not only in Christ Himself but in all those who bear His name, His Chrism (anointing), who are made sharers in His divine nature (2 Peter 1:4) through baptism into the one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, for which Our Lord Himself prayed that we would be one as He and the Father are one (John 17:21). It’s hard to believe that God would trust us, us fallible humans, with such a gift, but believe it, this is what it means that Jesus Christ came in the flesh.

Consider the first century Jewish Christians. Blood for them was something unclean, something tainted, something that spoke of man’s ways, not God’s ways. Ritual cleaning was important to avoid what was unclean, to return the outside appearance of things to the purity that spoke of God’s otherness. It’s for this reason that St John goes to such lengths to say that God came “not by water only but by water and blood” 1 John 5:6, not only in the untainted purity of the God of Heaven but in the earthly, messy, real-world fleshiness of the Son of Man. He is the head, we the members of His Body, the Church.

Wow. Just wow. :heaven: God has given such grace to us, undeserved.

When you reflect on it, it’s hard to see how it wouldn’t change your whole life, make you want to go out and make that difference, spread that love to all you meet.

 

[dmelosi]

One learns right from wrong from the Holy Ghost directly. Man’s ways should never step inbetween.

God teaches us now in our hearts as He always has. It is our choice if we listen to it. No church doctrine can ever replace the voice of the Lord.

We agree on your second paragraph.

But how do you interpret the following and many many other passages that tell us to evangalize?

Matthew 28:19-20
19 Going therefore, teach all nations: baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you. And behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.

 

[Seeker100]

That comes down to the question of whether you think that the promise Our Lord made in John 16:13 that the Holy Spirit would lead us into all truth was meant to be given to each individual Christian, or to the whole Church.

From the earliest times, the apostles were clear which was the correct interpretation:
The Church is “the pillar and foundation of the truth” 1 Timothy 3:15, Our Lord Himself makes the promise that whatever the apostles bind on earth will be bound in heaven (Matthew 18:18). This means that the Church’s ways are not “man’s ways” but the way of God. It’s hard to believe, but this is the depth of the riches of the mystery of the Incarnation, that in Christ, God’s ways and man’s ways converge, that God chooses to save man through man, not only in Christ Himself but in all those who bear His name, His Chrism (anointing), who are made sharers in His divine nature (2 Peter 1:4) through baptism into the one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, for which Our Lord Himself prayed that we would be one as He and the Father are one (John 17:21). It’s hard to believe that God would trust us, us fallible humans, with such a gift, but believe it, this is what it means that Jesus Christ came in the flesh.

Consider the first century Jewish Christians. Blood for them was something unclean, something tainted, something that spoke of man’s ways, not God’s ways. Ritual cleaning was important to avoid what was unclean, to return the outside appearance of things to the purity that spoke of God’s otherness. It’s for this reason that St John goes to such lengths to say that God came “not by water only but by water and blood” 1 John 5:6, not only in the untainted purity of the God of Heaven but in the earthly, messy, real-world fleshiness of the Son of Man. He is the head, we the members of His Body, the Church.

Wow. Just wow. :heaven: God has given such grace to us, undeserved.

When you reflect on it, it’s hard to see how it wouldn’t change your whole life, make you want to go out and make that difference, spread that love to all you meet.

 

[Seeker100]

That comes down to the question of whether you think that the promise Our Lord made in John 16:13 that the Holy Spirit would lead us into all truth was meant to be given to each individual Christian, or to the whole Church.

From the earliest times, the apostles were clear which was the correct interpretation:
The Church is “the pillar and foundation of the truth” 1 Timothy 3:15, Our Lord Himself makes the promise that whatever the apostles bind on earth will be bound in heaven (Matthew 18:18). This means that the Church’s ways are not “man’s ways” but the way of God. It’s hard to believe, but this is the depth of the riches of the mystery of the Incarnation, that in Christ, God’s ways and man’s ways converge, that God chooses to save man through man, not only in Christ Himself but in all those who bear His name, His Chrism (anointing), who are made sharers in His divine nature (2 Peter 1:4) through baptism into the one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, for which Our Lord Himself prayed that we would be one as He and the Father are one (John 17:21). It’s hard to believe that God would trust us, us fallible humans, with such a gift, but believe it, this is what it means that Jesus Christ came in the flesh.

Consider the first century Jewish Christians. Blood for them was something unclean, something tainted, something that spoke of man’s ways, not God’s ways. Ritual cleaning was important to avoid what was unclean, to return the outside appearance of things to the purity that spoke of God’s otherness. It’s for this reason that St John goes to such lengths to say that God came “not by water only but by water and blood” 1 John 5:6, not only in the untainted purity of the God of Heaven but in the earthly, messy, real-world fleshiness of the Son of Man. He is the head, we the members of His Body, the Church.

Wow. Just wow. :heaven: God has given such grace to us, undeserved.

When you reflect on it, it’s hard to see how it wouldn’t change your whole life, make you want to go out and make that difference, spread that love to all you meet.

Of course it is given to both the individual and the Church. One must understand however what the true Church is. The true church is the Bride of Christ. It is the universal Church of people who obey God’s voice. Members of the true Church come from all denominations. The true church is the Kingdom of God. The members of the Kingdom of God are vessels for the Holy Ghost and are His body on earth to carry out His will.

 

[Seeker100]

We agree on your second paragraph.

But how do you interpret the following and many many other passages that tell us to evangalize?

Matthew 28:19-20
19 Going therefore, teach all nations: baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you. And behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.

Well or course, we are to expand the Kingdom of God under the guidance of the Holy Ghost. He is working to this very day. His Kingdom is forever and ever long after all churches and donominations have crumbled to nothing.

 

[dmelosi]

Well or course, we are to expand the Kingdom of God under the guidance of the Holy Ghost. He is working to this very day. His Kingdom is forever and ever long after all churches and donominations have crumbled to nothing.

The problem I have with what you are trying to say is that most people today are too caught up with real life, day to day living and do not know how to start on a spiritual journey. How do most people know when the Holy Ghost is talking to them? Who do they listen to when they want to start? There are so many that interpret things to their own benefit, who knows if what they preach is God’s teaching or their own?

Tradition with scripture makes so much sense as an unchanging moral compass of living your life, I cannot see how people think that personal interpretation without guidance is anything but arrogance.

 

[DL82]

The true church is the Bride of Christ. It is the universal Church of people who obey God’s voice. Members of the true Church come from all denominations.

I can agree with this in as far as there are people in all denominations who are genuinely seeking to do the will of God, and God will judge them according to how well they have tried in accordance with what they know.

Nonetheless, Christ established His Church to be one (John 17:21), built upon the apostles and prophets, with Christ Himself the chief cornerstone (Ephesians 2:20). Nowhere else is that oneness and that apostolic foundation maintained, teaching the same eternal truths passed down by the fathers and doctors and bishops, without the creeping in of any mere human doctrines, than in the Holy Catholic Church. There is truth in all denominations, and all try to live according to as much of the truth as they can grasp, but the fulness of the Truth is in the Catholic Church, which Jesus founded, to which He gave the promise that satan would not prevail against it (Matthew 16:18), the Truth we are to walk in and abide in (John 15:4), to which, through His priests, He, the Word incarnate, full of grace and truth, comes in body and blood, soul and divinity (1 John 5:6, John 14:23).

The true church is the Bride of Christ. Amen.

 

[Seeker100]

The problem I have with what you are trying to say is that most people today are too caught up with real life, day to day living and do not know how to start on a spiritual journey. How do most people know when the Holy Ghost is talking to them? Who do they listen to when they want to start? There are so many that interpret things to their own benefit, who knows if what they preach is God’s teaching or their own?

Tradition with scripture makes so much sense as an unchanging moral compass of living your life, I cannot see how people think that personal interpretation without guidance is anything but arrogance.

Real life day to day is our spiritual journey. It is our life that we commit to love that is the path of the Lord.

Anyone can listen to the voice of the Lord as this voice is in us all telling us to love everyone and to do the best we can for all people.

Of course their are people who preach for their own benefit. God knows who is true and who is false. Our job is to do the will of God in our lives.

Following God is not arrogance. It is true submission.

 

[Seeker100]

I can agree with this in as far as there are people in all denominations who are genuinely seeking to do the will of God, and God will judge them according to how well they have tried in accordance with what they know.

Nonetheless, Christ established His Church to be one (John 17:21), built upon the apostles and prophets, with Christ Himself the chief cornerstone (Ephesians 2:20). Nowhere else is that oneness and that apostolic foundation maintained, teaching the same eternal truths passed down by the fathers and doctors and bishops, without the creeping in of any mere human doctrines, than in the Holy Catholic Church. There is truth in all denominations, and all try to live according to as much of the truth as they can grasp, but the fulness of the Truth is in the Catholic Church, which Jesus founded, to which He gave the promise that satan would not prevail against it (Matthew 16:18), the Truth we are to walk in and abide in (John 15:4), to which, through His priests, He, the Word incarnate, full of grace and truth, comes in body and blood, soul and divinity (1 John 5:6, John 14:23).

The true church is the Bride of Christ. Amen.

From what I understand we seem to differ on what the definition of the true Church is. From my understanding you believe that the true Church is the Roman Catholic church. I believe that the true Church is the Kingdom of God and this is not one particular denomination but is made of the people of all denominations that obey the voice of the Lord.