The USCCB and Schism

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CB_Catholic said:
I have never read anything that would constitute a statement from the Magesterium condemning hand-holding, however some officials have given their opinion on the matter. And whatever you read on these forums is opinion. My opinion is I don’t like it, but I in no way speak for the Magesterium, which has not spoken on the matter at all. But some people post things from various Church officials, but they don’t really carry any true weight in the matter–there is nothing saying you can or can’t.

I have found that the best thing to do at Mass is to focus on the Mass and not on what others are doing. However, if someone takes my hand, even though I consider it a little rude, I do not refuse them. They don’t mean any harm and it won’t kill me to do something I don’t like, rather than run the risk of hurting someone’s feelings in the middle of Mass, of all places. It really is a small thing.
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So, if I send a letter to the CDWDS asking about holding hands during the Our Father, is it considered an official statement?
 
InspiritCarol said:
A nun taught me, back in 1979 (I was 7 at the time); that we hold our hands open to God (orans) to signify that God both gives to us (here, she placed an imaginary item in my opened palm) and takes away, (here she very slowly and gently removed an imaginary item from my open palm). This was very significant as my cat had just died. She emphasized that to pray in this fashion shows God that we are open to and accept fully His will in all matters.

I still have trouble praying in this way. (God forgive me).

My point: try not to experience Mass by judging those around you. Thank God for the opportunity to overcome the adversity of whatever distraction is placed before you, and goodness … it’s not that hard to NOT hold the hand of the person next to you.
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What the church is saying, is that the only stipulation about the Our Father during Mass is to stand. “Period”. On your own to do this may make you feel closer to God. Now where the problem may start is when you think that you know best, more than the Church itself, and you think less of others that don’t do as you do. Whether its holding hands or the Oran Posture…
 
ConstantineTG said:
Icons are not merely “art”. You don’t depict someone doing something they shouldn’t be doing. There is no freedom of expression in iconography. Icons should always convey correct teaching, unlike Western art which is free form.

Do you think there is a difference between East and West when it comes to the orans? No lay person does the orans in our parishes. And the clergy do the orans in other prayers, not just the Our Father.
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Actually I believe that the Melkite Church calls for the laity to use the orans position for praying the Our Father. At least the pew books we had when I was attending on did.
 
Inquiringperson said:
Okay, but does that mean I should listen to what the letter says?
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If you write a letter and get a response, while it is not an official statement, it is “official” in regards to you and your question and situation. So if you write a letter and get a response you should do what the response tells you.

But that response is not binding upon anyone else.
 
fall_fox said:
Now where the problem may start is when you think that you know best, more than the Church itself, and you think less of others that don’t do as you do. Whether its holding hands or the Oran Posture…
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Amen to that.

I think most of the wrongmindedness is born from ignorance as opposed to pride or arrogance.

warningstepping on my “catechise better” soapbox**
I have said over and over: we simply aren’t properly catechised. We are not people who are able to just do what we’re told any more. We require justification and explanation to some degree. Whether this is good or bad makes no difference, it simply is.
Ahh rant off**

It is laughable to think of a single gesture being schismatic. lol It’s like if I said: I agree with EVERYTHING else, but I REALLY need to give a “thumb’s up” at the end of Mass - before the sign of the cross. 👍 lol What amount of hubris would be required to carry that action beyond direct disapproval of the Magesterium? 🤷 Why would anyone hold hands during Mass if the Magesterium disapproved? We would not.
 
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