The use of the term "Protestant Sects" by Catholics

[Estevao]

I apologize for my usage of this term. Upon further reflection given your definition the word “sect” implies that the people attending these groups are there in willful and malicious separation from the Catholic Church, which is not accurate. I have trouble saying protestant “church” because to me “church” implies a visible body and the sacraments, whereas protestant ecclesiology does not include this. I will in the future use the terms denomination, community, group or faith tradition.

 

[Della]

I apologize for my usage of this term. Upon further reflection given your definition the word “sect” implies that the people attending these groups are there in willful and malicious separation from the Catholic Church, which is not accurate. I have trouble saying protestant “church” because to me “church” implies a visible body and the sacraments, whereas protestant ecclesiology does not include this. I will in the future use the terms denomination, community, group or faith tradition.

I believe it was Pope Benedict XVI who used the term ecclesial community. Bit of a mouthful, but politically correct.

 

[Corki]

I rarely use the word “sect”, but if I do, it is to make a distinction of a smaller offshoot of a larger denomination. Where I live, for example, there are many independent and non-denominational Baptist congregations. In that case, Baptist=denomination, the particular offshoot=sect. But it’s just a semantic shorthand. No slight intended.

 

[kenmiller]

Well just for starters if you call the Church and the Sacraments (especially Baptism and the Eucharist) insignificant details then I have to wonder about catachesis. Proclaiming the Truth and defending the Faith is not finger pointing and does not have to be done in and argumentative manner.

Happy Advent!

Many Protestants celebrate baptism and communion -

Merry Christmas!

 

[hadulzo]

I believe it was Pope Benedict XVI who used the term ecclesial community. Bit of a mouthful, but politically correct.

Ecclesial community is the correct term per the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

 

[Thorolfr]

I hear you Tommy. I’ve always dislike the term “cult” for the same reason, as in the “cult” of Padre Pio.

The word “cult” can have a negative connotation. The first definition of this word in Merriam-Webster is, “a small religious group that is not part of a larger and more accepted religion and that has beliefs regarded by many people as extreme or dangerous.”

On the other hand, historians and academics often refer to the “cult of the saints” and I don’t think this is intended to have a negative connotation. Another definition of “cult” in line with this usage is also in Merriam-Webster: “a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents”.

 

[Thorolfr]

Yes, they are material heretics. Not every Protestant is a formal heretic. It’s only a sin if they knowingly do it, which means being a formal heretic. Thanks for making the distinction clear.

What does “knowingly do it” mean? Many Protestants might have some idea of certain things that Catholics believe, but just don’t believe in those things. I’ve certainly learned a lot about Catholicism here in CAF, but still don’t believe in some fundamental doctrines of Catholicism.

 

[SyroMalankara]

The terms aren’t meant disparagingly, just as when protestants call Catholics a denomination… in our view we are not a denomination, our Church existed before denominations.

 

[cena]

What does “knowingly do it” mean? Many Protestants might have some idea of certain things that Catholics believe, but just don’t believe in those things. I’ve certainly learned a lot about Catholicism here in CAF, but still don’t believe in some fundamental doctrines of Catholicism.

Like if they were raised Catholic and they did not like all the rules, so they became a Protestant. Luther was Catholic and he changed some teachings= heretic. Instead of coming to the Church he made his own religion. Arius was Catholic, misinterpreted a key point in the faith, he was corrected but he refused to change so he was declared a heretic.

A Protestant that knows Catholic teaching but does not know the Catholic Church is the true church is not the same. I assume a lot of Protestants think they are in the true church so they are probably not culpable. I have no idea how culpable you are

 

[LaughingBoy1503]

I see people on this site use the term “protestant sects” but I do not think I have ever heard that term used by a Catholic outside of these forums. Most Catholics I know simply refer to protestants as “Christians” A lot of these Catholics also will ask you “are you Catholic or Christian?” Or say “I am not a Christian, I am Catholic” Not even knowing that to be Christian and Catholic is one and the same thing. I see that more common that various protestant denominations being referred to as “sects”

I just call protestants “non Catholic Christians” or call them by their denomination affiliation. One thing I wont budge on is that I consider non-denominational a denomination. But I am entitled to my opinion as are they

I do feel uncomfortable referring to them as “Churches” I do sometimes but The Church makes it clear that God has only One Church and these are “ecclesiastical Communities” not churches. I know that will offend some but it is what it is. Sadly we have many disagreements in Christianity. I still love my separated brethren and I mean no offense to them.

 

[Tommy999]

The terms aren’t meant disparagingly, just as when protestants call Catholics a denomination… in our view we are not a denomination, our Church existed before denominations.

Thanks for that clarification and distinction, SyroMalankara. I understand your point. I have come to acknowledge and respect that perspective.

I realize I don’t speak for all protestants, but when protestants call Catholicism a ‘denomination’, I don’t think that is meant disparagingly, either. In fact, it very well could mean that the person is using the term as a way to acknowledge Catholics as another legitimate Christian body of believers – in this case the largest one in Christendom.

However, that same statement could also imply that person considers Catholicism just another option among equals within Christendom along with the various protestant denominations, a statement with which I know Catholics would disagree, or at least I assume they would.

For example, if a protestant refers to Catholicism as a ‘denomination’ but calls Mormonism and Jehovah’s witnesses “sects” or a “cult”, it most likely a compliment to the Catholic and not to be considered a knock against Catholicism.

With that said, I’m sure there is a minority within protestant denominations who think Catholicism is not Christianity as they understand it. In other words, just as there are bigots within every ethnicity, I think the same applies to religion.

 

[Tommy999]

Like if they were raised Catholic and they did not like all the rules, so they became a Protestant. Luther was Catholic and he changed some teachings= heretic. Instead of coming to the Church he made his own religion. Arius was Catholic, misinterpreted a key point in the faith, he was corrected but he refused to change so he was declared a heretic.

A Protestant that knows Catholic teaching but does not know the Catholic Church is the true church is not the same. I assume a lot of Protestants think they are in the true church so they are probably not culpable. I have no idea how culpable you are

I think sometimes Catholics and protestants use the same terminology t mean different things. Therefore it can get confusing. For example, the word ‘Church’ is one of them.

For a lot of protestants, the Church (in the larger sense) is all of Christendom or has an alternative meaning to mean local parish. For example, a protestant might say “I attend First Baptist Church on Main Street” or might say “I am going to church to the 11:00 service with my family”. When the word ‘church’ is used, most protestants - I think - tend to use that term to mean their local parish/body of believers.

For those protestants who are familiar with or recite the Nicean Creed, the holy catholic church is meant to mean all of Christendom, or at least I think that is the case.

However, I understand Catholics believe they are the one true Church that Jesus established and therefore no other Christian group can lay claim to that designation.

 

[SyroMalankara]

Tommy999:
However, I understand Catholics believe they are the one true Church that Jesus established and therefore no other Christian group can lay claim to that designation.Catholics recognize Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, and Church of the East (Assyrian) as true Churches. These have from Apostolic time, celebrated the Divine Liturgy, continued Sacraments, has ongoing Apostolic Succession, and all the true “marks” of the Church…

 

[estesbob]

I use the term separated brethren or denomination . Obviously can’t call them Churches because they are not. I think the terms cult or sect are demeaning and do nothing to further reconciliation.

 

[Peter_J]

Background
I’ve always viewed both the Catholic Church and most protestant denominations as Christians, believers of equal standing in the eyes of God. Of course, there are individuals in both groups who are undoubtedly more serious about their faith than others, but I am speaking in general terms here.
Observation:
On threads such as forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=926902, there are Catholics who refer to "protestant sects’.

…

I apologize if I am being overly sensitive or if this issue doesn’t apply to you. If that is the case, please disregard this whole thread and thank you for being my brother or sister in Christ.

If it does apply, I hope you will give it a little closer examination in the future to the terms you use when describing other Christians who may not belong to your faith tradition.

Your friend in Christ,
Tommy

I agree with you as far as Catholics and Protestants both being Christians.

I don’t know whether you’re being overly sensitive, but let me ask you: why do you choose to complain about that particular phrase? Why not complain about e.g. Protestants saying “Are you Catholic or Christian?” or Catholics speaking of “non-Catholic religions”, or other such statements that deny that we are both followers of the Christian religion?

 

[Tommy999]

I agree with you as far as Catholics and Protestants both being Christians.

I don’t know whether you’re being overly sensitive, but let me ask you: **why do you choose to complain about that particular phrase? **Why not complain about e.g. Protestants saying “Are you Catholic or Christian?” or Catholics speaking of “non-Catholic religions”, or other such statements that deny that we are both followers of the Christian religion?

Hi Perter J,
I started this thread to clarify what those Catholics meant who were using the phrase, “Protestant sect” and whether they meant it to mean the 1a or 1b definition that I noted in post #1.

Like I previously have said, I respect all Catholics on this site and consider Catholics to be my brothers and sisters in Christ. I just wanted to clarify if that was a two-way street. As a whole, I was very satisfied by the replies and my concerns were laid to rest.

As far as Protestants saying “Are you Catholic or Christian?”, I’ve never personally heard anyone say that in person or read it on CAF before, but I trust it has occurred or else you wouldn’t have mentioned it.

To me, for a protestant to say such a thing is a sign of ignorance or bigotry and reflects a lack of understanding of Catholicism. In short, I don’t agree with it and I would tell them that to their faces.

 

[LaughingBoy1503]

As far as Protestants saying “Are you Catholic or Christian?”, I’ve never personally heard anyone say that in person or read it on CAF before, but I trust it has occurred or else you wouldn’t have mentioned it.

Oh yeah, there are many protestant denominations that teach that Catholics are not Christians. I think The Fundamentalists and certain Baptist (If I was ever going to use the term “sect” it would be here but I will use groups instead) “groups” are probably the most hardcore about it. Seventh Day Adventists are pretty outspoken in their belief that The Catholic Church is evil and pretty much the devils church (I have read one of their books) But, I cant get upset at protestants in general over this. So many also know that we are Christians. Some even acknowledge that Catholics were the first Christians (My 82 year old Pentecostal Grandmother for one )

I have been told vile things about The Catholic Church and been attacked online, but never in person. Most the time when I am told I am wrong or Catholics are wrong about something in person, it is the other person trying to correct me and bring me to their point of view. And I have heard all their arguments because I use to be protestant so I am usually not impressed This thread has been a good respectful dialog for the most part. We need that more on these forums

 

[KathleenGee]

I have referred to certain Protestant groups as sects.

But again, here is the perspective.

The Catholic Church is comprised of hierarchy and the 7 sacraments. We have not only bishops, but popes.

The Anglican and certain Lutheran churches are considered churches as such because they have bishops with sacraments.

When a congregation has no bishop, and does not have the 7 sacraments, they are considered ecclesial communities. As I understand it, most Protestant ecclesial communities have the sacrament of baptism, but marriage is not sacramentally binding along with no priesthood, no penance.

From these, there are break away groups that might not even believe in the Trinity, and I refer to these as sects. I also use the word sect in reference to those communities that have separated because of how they understand a certain line of scripture.

 

[Tommy999]

I have referred to certain Protestant groups as sects.

But again, here is the perspective.

The Catholic Church is comprised of hierarchy and the 7 sacraments. We have not only bishops, but popes.

The Anglican and certain Lutheran churches are considered churches as such because they have bishops with sacraments.

When a congregation has no bishop, and does not have the 7 sacraments, they are considered ecclesial communities. As I understand it, most Protestant ecclesial communities have the sacrament of baptism, but marriage is not sacramentally binding along with no priesthood, no penance.

From these, there are break away groups that might not even believe in the Trinity, and I refer to these as sects. I also use the word sect in reference to those communities that have separated because of how they understand a certain line of scripture.

Hi KathleenGee,
As you know, I always respect and benefit from your posts.

I think I understand what you are saying from the Catholic perspective, although I hope you don’t mind if I continue to refer to “going to church” on Sunday morning instead of “going to the ecclesial community building.” For one thing, it’s easier to say and I’ve been using the term for years.

I also don’t understand what you meant when you say that marriage in a church like mine is not sacramentally binding.

Are you suggesting that I am not in a legal or valid marriage because I wasn’t married in the Catholic Church? I think I know you well enough to where I don’t think you would question the validity of my marriage to my dear wife of 34 years that took place in the church where she grew up, so I guess I don’t understand what you meant by that statement. Perhaps you can clarify for me.

 

[PRmerger]

Hi KathleenGee,
As you know, I always respect and benefit from your posts.

I think I understand what you are saying from the Catholic perspective, although I hope you don’t mind if I continue to refer to “going to church” on Sunday morning instead of “going to the ecclesial community building.” For one thing, it’s easier to say and I’ve been using the term for years.

I also don’t understand what you meant when you say that marriage in a church like mine is not sacramentally binding.

Are you suggesting that I am not in a legal or valid marriage because I wasn’t married in the Catholic Church? I think I know you well enough to where I don’t think you would question the validity of my marriage to my dear wife of 34 years that took place in the church where she grew up, so I guess I don’t understand what you meant by that statement. Perhaps you can clarify for me.

I’m not sure what my friend Kathleen meant by that, so I won’t answer for her, but that does segue into a question that I have: does your church permit divorce and re-marriage?