The useless Bible?

[John_one_one]

I also find your username hilarious as most non-Catholics seem to think the Gospel of John is all symbolism especially chapter 6

Another charitable attribute of the forum
When you ask for evidence you take the conversation of topic buy redirecting the point.
When that doesn’t work you resort to slander.

Maybe you could show me the beads if you really want to get off topic.

tobinatorstark: You couldn’t be more wrong. The Rosary is scriptural.

I’ll save you the trouble of defending Mary it already admitted that it it cant be found in scripture by your leaders. Along with minimizing the bible of course. I was really trying to be nice about this topic but some people just cant resist being jerks, so what do you have to say about this to the guy with the funny nic? I’ll give you a clue Mat 16:18

Since the Immaculate Conception and Assumption are not explicit in Scripture, Fundamentalists conclude that the doctrines are false. Here, of course, we get into an entirely separate matter, the question of sola scriptura, or the Protestant “Bible only” theory. There is no room in this tract to consider that idea. Let it just be said that if the position of the Catholic Church is true, then the notion of sola scriptura is false. There is then no problem with the Church officially defining a doctrine which is not explicitly in Scripture, so long as it is not in contradiction to Scripture.

The Catholic Church was commissioned by Christ to teach all nations and to teach them infallibly—guided, as he promised, by the Holy Spirit until the end of the world (John 14:26, 16:13). The mere fact that the Church teaches that something is definitely true is a guarantee that it is true (cf. Matt. 28:18-20, Luke 10:16, 1 Tim. 3:15).

NIHIL OBSTAT: I have concluded that the materials
presented in this work are free of doctrinal or moral errors.
Bernadeane Carr, STL, Censor Librorum, August 10, 2004

IMPRIMATUR: In accord with 1983 CIC 827
permission to publish this work is hereby granted.
+Robert H. Brom, Bishop of San Diego, August 10, 2004

 

[FickleFreckled]

John one one,
You can find all sorts of opinions on CAF, including posts that “prove” your point. What you’re reading in the threads you seem to want to zero in on isn’t the Church speaking; it’s CAF members. But your mind is made up. No one’s going to convince you and you’re not open to discussion. So why did you post this thread? Just to have an argument?

I’m so naive. I keep thinking people actually want to talk and learn from each other. Yeah, right.

 

[margarette]

I believe the Bible to be the only sure Word from God and I believe Jesus is the Word:

John 1:1-5

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God; all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was
made. In him was life and the life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

If you deny the Words of the Bible then you deny Jesus.

 

[John_one_one]

And NOW you see the importance of tradition. How do we know which of the above interpretations is correct (if any)? The Church uses corroborating evidence from the early Church, generally, the Early Church Fathers and other historical documents. THIS is tradition in the Catholic sense.

It makes no difference if it was last week or 1500 years ago you are taking someone elses word as scripture rather than scripture its self. If the fist pope Linus or who ever, said something contrary Peter or Paul in the first century who will you believe? I think you answered my question already you will follow Linus. Added to that the NT letters are full of warning about false teachers at the time they were written. How do I know you are not one of them?

 

[rpp]

It makes no difference if it was last week or 1500 years ago you are taking someone elses word as scripture rather than scripture its self. If the fist pope Linus or who ever, said something contrary Peter or Paul in the first century who will you believe? I think you answered my question already you will follow Linus. Added to that the NT letters are full of warning about false teachers at the time they were written. How do I know you are not one of them?

The first Pope was the Apostle Peter. There were more than 12 Popes before there was a Bible. In fact there were four Popes before the last book of the Bible was written.

And no, no Pope has ever said or written anything that contradicts what another Pope has said or written. If you claim differently, you need to provide some serious citations. I dare you to dispute this.

 

[Rolltide]

It makes no difference if it was last week or 1500 years ago you are taking someone elses word as scripture rather than scripture its self. If the fist pope Linus or who ever, said something contrary Peter or Paul in the first century who will you believe? I think you answered my question already you will follow Linus. Added to that the NT letters are full of warning about false teachers at the time they were written. How do I know you are not one of them?

Well see, I could indeed be a false teacher. I don’t have Apostolic Succession. The gift of the Holy Spirit was given to the Twelve Apostles on Pentacost, and they passed the gift of the Holy Spirit on to their successors, and their successors, and so on, as leaders of the Church. This, along with belief in the Real Presence, is why the Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and Oriental Orthodox Churches are actually considered genuine “churches”, while other groups are simply “ecclesiastical communities”. Without that protection of the Holy Spirit, it would be very easy to fall into error.

Second, there were very few scriptures beyond the Gospels and Old Testament, at the time of Linus and Iraneus yet. Most information at that time WAS transmitted through oral tradition. If you were a first century Christian, who would you rather believe… some purported document from a land far away, or the testimony of someone trained by one of Jesus’s followers in the flesh? (Mind you, I’m not talking about today, 2000 years later, I’m talking about back then…) How could those early Christians know which documents to trust, with so many false ones floating around, and how did they eventually figure it out? (think tradition!)

Regarding Linus and other bishops like Iraneus… we historically know that these individuals were trained by the Apostles themselves. If everyone the Apostles trained fell into error just ONE generation after Christ, well, they sure weren’t very good teachers, were they?

 

[Rolltide]

If the fist pope Linus or who ever, said something contrary Peter or Paul in the first century who will you believe? I think you answered my question already you will follow Linus.

Well of course! Linus is a legitimate successor of the Apostles. He is a legitimate interpreter of scripture since he has the backing and protection of the Holy Spirit. I say that because he would be incapable of saying something contrary to the Bible in a matter of faith and morals, although he would, of course, be capable of personal error and sinfulness. Now, that said, you are under the assumption that Linus taught error. In fact, the point is moot, because none of Linus’s writings survive. Therefore, he’s not teaching error today (he’s not teaching anything).

Catholic belief holds that it is impossible for the Bishop of Rome, the Pope, to teach error regarding faith and morals, and their interpretations do NOT contradict the Bible. Now, some interpretations may, in fact, have somewhat limited Biblical evidence, but they do NOT contradict the Bible, and they are supported by supplementary proof from the early church. The Bible provides the foundation as an inspired repository of information, and the tradition provides the context for interpreting difficult passages.

 

[John_one_one]

John one one,
You can find all sorts of opinions on CAF, including posts that “prove” your point. What you’re reading in the threads you seem to want to zero in on isn’t the Church speaking; it’s CAF members. But your mind is made up. No one’s going to convince you and you’re not open to discussion. So why did you post this thread? Just to have an argument?

I’m so naive. I keep thinking people actually want to talk and learn from each other. Yeah, right.

So what happened to one church in complete agreement? Does that only apply to the belief in the Catholic Church and not doctrine? If thats the case you also have 33,000 denominations with in the church its self.

I had a point to make, and no catholic will publicly say that the bible is sufficient for salvation. May point is that it is the same thing many non Jesus believers and anti christians say also. Muslims, Buddhist, Hindus any religion in the world will generally confess that Jesus was special, but the bibles not the whole story, the catholic church does the same, or will imply that there is no salvation outside of itself. That the bible can only be properly read by a select few in the Vatican, if thats the case why bother reading if only a few know what it says. thats making the bible appear useless. By the way who are these people that can properly read it? do you have a list?

What is even more frightening is the thought that no one eles can know the truth, can you imagine what would happen to the constitution if the same were done with it? In fact it is happening there also people interpret it to satisfy there own interpretation, that took prayer out of schools in 1963 I think, and is working on removing all vestiges of God in the government that was founded by Christians IMO. Did you know that half of the signers of the Declaration of Independence graduated from divinity school? But to listen to the fathers or decedents today you get a very different picture. 300 years after Christ the churches history from the catholic point of view also started looking very different.

 

[John_one_one]

Well see, I could indeed be a false teacher. I don’t have Apostolic Succession. The gift of the Holy Spirit was given to the Twelve Apostles on Pentacost, and they passed the gift of the Holy Spirit on to their successors, and their successors, and so on, as leaders of the Church.

Here it is again Mat 16:18 its the only dog in the hunt when it comes to your history and your church.

Its late I have to get up for work.

I’ll ask you also to provide a list of people currently in the Vatican that can read the bible.
That book thats completely useless to anyone but them.

 

[Rolltide]

I’ll ask you also to provide a list of people currently in the Vatican that can read the bible.
That book thats completely useless to anyone but them.

ALL Catholics are not only allowed to read the Bible, they are expected to. The Catechism confirms this. It is one of the cornerstones of our faith. Whenever a tradition or doctrine comes into question in the church, the Bible is the ultimate arbitrator. If the tradition clearly contradicts the Bible, then it’s thrown out. I don’t see how the Bible can be useless. It is the final say in everything we do as the inspired repository of the oral tradition of the church!

How precisely was Christianity passed on in the first 400 years of the Church? We do indeed see that there were MANY problems with false teachings. The Bible speaks of Simon Magus, who may have been one of the early Gnostic leaders. There were also groups such as the Docetists and the Arians. Fortunately, there was a system in place to solve all of these arguments, establish a creed, and determine a canon of the Bible. Without Catholic councils like Nicea, Rome, Hippo, and Carthage, councils that were based on bishops meeting with the authority of the Holy Spirit and Apostolic Succession, Christianity may not even have survived the terrible fracturing and false teaching that was occurring.

 

[margarette]

ALL Catholics are not only allowed to read the Bible, they are expected to. The Catechism confirms this. It is one of the cornerstones of our faith. Whenever a tradition or doctrine comes into question in the church, the Bible is the ultimate arbitrator. If the tradition clearly contradicts the Bible, then it’s thrown out. I don’t see how the Bible can be useless. It is the final say in everything we do as the inspired repository of the oral tradition of the church!

Amen!

 

[Rolltide]

I had a point to make, and no catholic will publicly say that the bible is sufficient for salvation. May point is that it is the same thing many non Jesus believers and anti christians say also. Muslims, Buddhist, Hindus any religion in the world will generally confess that Jesus was special, but the bibles not the whole story, the catholic church does the same, or will imply that there is no salvation outside of itself. That the bible can only be properly read by a select few in the Vatican, if thats the case why bother reading if only a few know what it says. thats making the bible appear useless. By the way who are these people that can properly read it? do you have a list?

What is even more frightening is the thought that no one eles can know the truth,

I think you have the Catholic Church confused with the Gnostics, who professed “secret knowledge” contained within the Bible. The difference is that in Catholicism, interpretation is NOT a secret, and salvation is open to ALL, rather than a privileged few. I don’t see how thousands of interpretations can be a good thing. We also go well beyond saying Jesus was special. We proclaim Him as the Son of God Himself, who died and was resurrected for the salvation of all who choose to follow him. When we say that there is “no salvation outside the Catholic Church”, it does NOT mean that non-Catholics cannot be saved! It means that they might be saved in SPITE of a lack of knowledge. They will be doing the will of God, as passed down through the Bible and proclaimed most fully through the Catholic Church, without even realizing it. It’s akin to this. Imagine the Catholic Church as a 16 year old who goes out and buys a brand new car. They read the entire instruction manual, sign up and take driving lessons, and successfully make it to school. Now, imagine other groups are 16 year olds who go out and buy used cars. They have only partial instruction manuals, or perhaps no instruction manual at all. Some get lessons, but some do not. Now, they may eventually make it safely to school as well, but if school represents the Kingdom of Heaven, which route is the safer choice? If they DO make it to school, it will be by unintentionally following the rules that were in the book they never read and the lessons they never signed up for. (In other words, they were still saved THROUGH the Catholic Church).

Finally, it was Catholic councils that rooted out the false teachers, like the Gnostics. It was Catholic councils that fixed the canon of the Bible and established it as a document. It was a Catholic that translated the entire Old and New Testament into a single language for the very first time so that it could actually be of some use to people. It was the Catholic Church that kept Christianity alive in the Dark Ages after the fall of Rome, when there was NO literacy in Europe, save for a few brave monks in monasteries hand copying Bibles. Without the Catholic Church, Christianity would NOT have survived the Roman period.

 

[rpp]

I think you have the Catholic Church confused with the Gnostics, who professed “secret knowledge” contained within the Bible. The difference is that in Catholicism, interpretation is NOT a secret, and salvation is open to ALL, rather than a privileged few. I don’t see how thousands of interpretations can be a good thing. We also go well beyond saying Jesus was special. We proclaim Him as the Son of God Himself, who died and was resurrected for the salvation of all who choose to follow him. When we say that there is “no salvation outside the Catholic Church”, it does NOT mean that non-Catholics cannot be saved! It means that they might be saved in SPITE of a lack of knowledge. They will be doing the will of God, as passed down through the Bible and proclaimed most fully through the Catholic Church, without even realizing it. It’s akin to this. Imagine the Catholic Church as a 16 year old who goes out and buys a brand new car. They read the entire instruction manual, sign up and take driving lessons, and successfully make it to school. Now, imagine other groups are 16 year olds who go out and buy used cars. They have only partial instruction manuals, or perhaps no instruction manual at all. Some get lessons, but some do not. Now, they may eventually make it safely to school as well, but if school represents the Kingdom of Heaven, which route is the safer choice? If they DO make it to school, it will be by unintentionally following the rules that were in the book they never read and the lessons they never signed up for. (In other words, they were still saved THROUGH the Catholic Church).

Finally, it was Catholic councils that rooted out the false teachers, like the Gnostics. It was Catholic councils that fixed the canon of the Bible and established it as a document. It was a Catholic that translated the entire Old and New Testament into a single language for the very first time so that it could actually be of some use to people. It was the Catholic Church that kept Christianity alive in the Dark Ages after the fall of Rome, when there was NO literacy in Europe, save for a few brave monks in monasteries hand copying Bibles. Without the Catholic Church, Christianity would NOT have survived the Roman period.

Well said!

 

[John_one_one]

I think you have the Catholic Church confused with the Gnostics, who professed “secret knowledge” contained within the Bible. The difference is that in Catholicism, interpretation is NOT a secret, and salvation is open to ALL, rather than a privileged few. I don’t see how thousands of interpretations can be a good thing. We also go well beyond saying Jesus was special. We proclaim Him as the Son of God Himself, who died and was resurrected for the salvation of all who choose to follow him. When we say that there is “no salvation outside the Catholic Church”, it does NOT mean that non-Catholics cannot be saved! It means that they might be saved in SPITE of a lack of knowledge. They will be doing the will of God, as passed down through the Bible and proclaimed most fully through the Catholic Church, without even realizing it. It’s akin to this. Imagine the Catholic Church as a 16 year old who goes out and buys a brand new car. They read the entire instruction manual, sign up and take driving lessons, and successfully make it to school. Now, imagine other groups are 16 year olds who go out and buy used cars. They have only partial instruction manuals, or perhaps no instruction manual at all. Some get lessons, but some do not. Now, they may eventually make it safely to school as well, but if school represents the Kingdom of Heaven, which route is the safer choice? If they DO make it to school, it will be by unintentionally following the rules that were in the book they never read and the lessons they never signed up for. (In other words, they were still saved THROUGH the Catholic Church).

Finally, it was Catholic councils that rooted out the false teachers, like the Gnostics. It was Catholic councils that fixed the canon of the Bible and established it as a document. It was a Catholic that translated the entire Old and New Testament into a single language for the very first time so that it could actually be of some use to people. It was the Catholic Church that kept Christianity alive in the Dark Ages after the fall of Rome, when there was NO literacy in Europe, save for a few brave monks in monasteries hand copying Bibles. Without the Catholic Church, Christianity would NOT have survived the Roman period.

As I said before I dont see any catholics claiming the bible is sufficient for salvation.
Its the “church” by what ever definition you place on it. The exception to this rule of yours is lack of knowledge, LOL just where do you glean this from? If your stupid enought you will get to heaven is that the meaning?
Mysteries< just do a google search on Mary and the mysteries of the CC and see what you find. The mystery is how the CC transmits the proper translation of the bible from the select few to the body. the mystery is why read the bible when you teach know one else can understand its meaning. You did not address my statement about who translated the meaning of the letters written to the early churches. By your standard it is useless to read about the message of Gods witness. In closing men are saved the Jesus not the CC.

(In other words, they were still saved THROUGH the Catholic Church).

Its rather plain that the CC has no place for any one but its self including God. You openly claim you hold the power and authority of heaven on earth LOL those are shoes no man but Jesus will ever fill, but please go right ahead and lay that before the King of heaven and earth and see what it gets you. Aparently the catholic version of scripture overlooks and paraphrases all the references to Jesus and the HS with CC. Just how is that working for you?
Back to the topic do any catholics claim the bible is satisfactory for salvation.
Apparently it was good enough to get Linus in the door but after that he slammed it in everyone elses face. Catholic is a universal word for sure it replaces anything including the Father Son and HS including scripture and even closes the door on understanding Gods inspired word did I miss something?

 

[tobinatorstark]

Another charitable attribute of the forum
When you ask for evidence you take the conversation of topic buy redirecting the point.
When that doesn’t work you resort to slander.

Maybe you could show me the beads if you really want to get off topic.

I’ll save you the trouble of defending Mary it already admitted that it it cant be found in scripture by your leaders. Along with minimizing the bible of course. I was really trying to be nice about this topic but some people just cant resist being jerks, so what do you have to say about this to the guy with the funny nic? I’ll give you a clue Mat 16:18

You are lying again. Protestants don’t take chapter 6 of the Bible literally as pointed in another post as well. If they did, they would believe in the Holy Eucharist. I wasn’t being a jerk. You are just upset because no one this thread agrees with you and you have been debunked over and over. It too can be found in scripture. If you are looking for exact words you are looking into it far enough. The word abortion isn’t mentioned in the Bible and neither is the word Bible, but yet it is talked about in the Bible. You really do not even have a clue of what Matthew 16:18 even says.

 

[tobinatorstark]

I believe the Bible to be the only sure Word from God and I believe Jesus is the Word:

John 1:1-5

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God; all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was
made. In him was life and the life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

If you deny the Words of the Bible then you deny Jesus.

Thats good. that you believe in John 1:1-5, but do you believe in John 6:53-57?? I do. If you don’t believe that in a literal sense you also deny Jesus

 

[tobinatorstark]

Here it is again Mat 16:18 its the only dog in the hunt when it comes to your history and your church.

Its late I have to get up for work.

I’ll ask you also to provide a list of people currently in the Vatican that can read the bible.
That book thats completely useless to anyone but them.

false again. That is blasphemy. Everyone in the Vatican can read the Bible and so can all of us. Why would you even suggest that only the Bible is useful to them? They encourage us to read the Bible. They can’t add and subtract from the Bible. People started doing this in the 1500s and guess what. They started false churches aka “ecclesial communities” I would really watch what you say. It could cause you trouble in future posts

 

[wmscott]

Every new age philosophy along with scores of others make every effort to topple the bible. A Course In Miracles one of the larger more popular new age doctrines, promoted by Opera on TV like to reference Jesus as a model but they never listen or mention His words, except for maybe “the kingdom of heaven is within you”. Just as the others “non believer and new agers” do, the bible is nonsense to them. To me its no surprise that non believers minimize the bible but as far as I can tell, this forum is full of catholics that at every point also profess the bible is useless beyond simply pointing to the authority of its church and magistrate. Its useless without the church to tell you what it says, its also repeated many times that its incomplete. It looks to me like the catholic church and non Jesus believers both have a common goal, get rid of the bible.
What say you?

Sacred Scripture is very dear and venerated, I am not sure why you come to this conclusion. What I think you miss the mark on is that Catholics are strongly against New Age philosophies, the occult, and stands in defense of Christ and His Church against all forms of heresies. Sacred Scripture is the focal point in every Mass, it is the basis of our prayers, and the foundation of the Churches authority. Sacred Scripture establishes the “Pillar of Truth” and the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. Do you even know who gave the Bible to the world? What entity gathered all of the books of Sacred Scripture, deliberated over them, guided by the Holy Spirit determined which were inspired by God, and set the canon, as we know it today? Do you know? Well, I will let you in on a little secret, it was the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. It has protected and preserved the Bible for over 1600 years, why on earth would it want to get rid of it. the Bible is documented proof for Bible only folks that establishes the Catholic Church as Christ’s body here on earth.

I have posted this before; most of this information came from our libraries here at Catholic.com, and since you have an issue with tradition and the teaching authority the following is food for thought.

It is important to keep in mind what the Catholic Church means by tradition. The term does not refer to legends or mythological accounts, nor does it encompass transitory customs or practices, which may change, as circumstances warrant, such as styles of priestly dress, particular forms of devotion to saints, or even liturgical rubrics. An example in Sacred Scripture is found in Mark 7:1-15 where Jesus is speaking of the man made traditions (ritual purification). I agree, Jesus did in fact warn about man-made traditions; however, He fully understood the importance of Sacred Tradition.

I guess the question for you is, “Is the Bible is the only rule of faith?” Meaning that it contains all of the material one needs for theology and that this material is sufficiently clear that one does not need apostolic tradition or the Church’s magisterium (teaching authority) to help one understand it. Also “Is the whole of Christian truth is found within the Bible’s pages?” furthermore “Is anything extraneous to the Bible simply non-authoritative, unnecessary, or wrong—and may well hinder one in coming to God?”

Catholics recognize that the Bible does not endorse this view. In fact, it is repudiated in Scripture. The true “rule of faith”—as expressed in the Bible itself—is Scripture plus apostolic tradition, as manifested in the living teaching authority of the Catholic Church, to which were entrusted the oral teachings of Jesus and the apostles, along with the authority to interpret Scripture correctly.

Dei Verbum
(Latin: “The Word of God”)
Is the relationship between Tradition and Scripture? Hence, there exists a close connection and communication between sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture. For both of them, flowing from the same divine wellspring, in a certain way merge into a unity and tend toward the same end. Sacred Scripture is the word of God inasmuch as it is consigned to writing under the inspiration of the divine Spirit. To the successors of the apostles, sacred Tradition hands on in its full purity God’s word, which was entrusted to the apostles by Christ the Lord and the Holy Spirit.

By the light of the Spirit of truth, these successors can in their preaching preserve this word of God faithfully, explain it, and make it more widely known. It is not from sacred Scripture alone that the Church draws her certainty about everything that has been revealed. Therefore, both sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture are to be accepted and venerated with the same devotion and reverence.

Think of a three-legged stool, the seat being the Church Christ himself established here on earth (Catholic Church) each leg of the stool is as follows, Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and the Magisterium. All three legs of the Catholic Church can be directly revealed in Sacred Scripture. Sacred Tradition and the Magisterium are also Biblical. Without all three legs the stool, the seat (Church) cannot be supported.

However, since we are discussing tradition the following are some Biblical references in support of “Sacred Tradition”

SCRIPTURE AND TRADITION

1Cor 11:2 - hold fast to traditions I handed on to you
2Thess 2:15 - hold fast to traditions, whether oral or by letter
2Thess 3:6 - shun those acting not according to tradition
Jn 21:25 - not everything Jesus said recorded in Scripture
Mk 13:31 - heaven & earth shall pass away, but my word won’t
Acts 20;35 - Paul records a saying of Jesus not found in gospels
2Tim 1:13 - follow my sound words; guard the truth
2Tim2:2 - what you heard entrust to faithful men
2Pet 1:20 - no prophecy is a matter of private interpretation
2Pet 3:15-16 - Paul’s letters can be difficult to grasp & interpret
1Pet 1:25 - God’s eternal word = word preached to you
Rom 10:17 - faith come from what is heard
1Cor 15:1-2 - being saved if you hold fast to the word I preached
Mk 16:15 - go to the whole world, proclaim gospel to every creature
Mt 23:2-3 - chair of Moses; observe whatever they tell you

 

[tobinatorstark]

Sacred Scripture is very dear and venerated, I am not sure why you come to this conclusion. What I think you miss the mark on is that Catholics are strongly against New Age philosophies, the occult, and stands in defense of Christ and His Church against all forms of heresies. Sacred Scripture is the focal point in every Mass, it is the basis of our prayers, and the foundation of the Churches authority. Sacred Scripture establishes the “Pillar of Truth” and the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. Do you even know who gave the Bible to the world? What entity gathered all of the books of Sacred Scripture, deliberated over them, guided by the Holy Spirit determined which were inspired by God, and set the canon, as we know it today? Do you know? Well, I will let you in on a little secret, it was the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. It has protected and preserved the Bible for over 1600 years, why on earth would it want to get rid of it. the Bible is documented proof for Bible only folks that establishes the Catholic Church as Christ’s body here on earth.

I have posted this before; most of this information came from our libraries here at Catholic.com, and since you have an issue with tradition and the teaching authority the following is food for thought.

It is important to keep in mind what the Catholic Church means by tradition. The term does not refer to legends or mythological accounts, nor does it encompass transitory customs or practices, which may change, as circumstances warrant, such as styles of priestly dress, particular forms of devotion to saints, or even liturgical rubrics. An example in Sacred Scripture is found in Mark 7:1-15 where Jesus is speaking of the man made traditions (ritual purification). I agree, Jesus did in fact warn about man-made traditions; however, He fully understood the importance of Sacred Tradition.

I guess the question for you is, “Is the Bible is the only rule of faith?” Meaning that it contains all of the material one needs for theology and that this material is sufficiently clear that one does not need apostolic tradition or the Church’s magisterium (teaching authority) to help one understand it. Also “Is the whole of Christian truth is found within the Bible’s pages?” furthermore “Is anything extraneous to the Bible simply non-authoritative, unnecessary, or wrong—and may well hinder one in coming to God?”

Catholics recognize that the Bible does not endorse this view. In fact, it is repudiated in Scripture. The true “rule of faith”—as expressed in the Bible itself—is Scripture plus apostolic tradition, as manifested in the living teaching authority of the Catholic Church, to which were entrusted the oral teachings of Jesus and the apostles, along with the authority to interpret Scripture correctly.

Dei Verbum
(Latin: “The Word of God”)
Is the relationship between Tradition and Scripture? Hence, there exists a close connection and communication between sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture. For both of them, flowing from the same divine wellspring, in a certain way merge into a unity and tend toward the same end. Sacred Scripture is the word of God inasmuch as it is consigned to writing under the inspiration of the divine Spirit. To the successors of the apostles, sacred Tradition hands on in its full purity God’s word, which was entrusted to the apostles by Christ the Lord and the Holy Spirit.

By the light of the Spirit of truth, these successors can in their preaching preserve this word of God faithfully, explain it, and make it more widely known. It is not from sacred Scripture alone that the Church draws her certainty about everything that has been revealed. Therefore, both sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture are to be accepted and venerated with the same devotion and reverence.

Think of a three-legged stool, the seat being the Church Christ himself established here on earth (Catholic Church) each leg of the stool is as follows, Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and the Magisterium. All three legs of the Catholic Church can be directly revealed in Sacred Scripture. Sacred Tradition and the Magisterium are also Biblical. Without all three legs the stool, the seat (Church) cannot be supported.

However, since we are discussing tradition the following are some Biblical references in support of “Sacred Tradition”

SCRIPTURE AND TRADITION

1Cor 11:2 - hold fast to traditions I handed on to you
2Thess 2:15 - hold fast to traditions, whether oral or by letter
2Thess 3:6 - shun those acting not according to tradition
Jn 21:25 - not everything Jesus said recorded in Scripture
Mk 13:31 - heaven & earth shall pass away, but my word won’t
Acts 20;35 - Paul records a saying of Jesus not found in gospels
2Tim 1:13 - follow my sound words; guard the truth
2Tim2:2 - what you heard entrust to faithful men
2Pet 1:20 - no prophecy is a matter of private interpretation
2Pet 3:15-16 - Paul’s letters can be difficult to grasp & interpret
1Pet 1:25 - God’s eternal word = word preached to you
Rom 10:17 - faith come from what is heard
1Cor 15:1-2 - being saved if you hold fast to the word I preached
Mk 16:15 - go to the whole world, proclaim gospel to every creature
Mt 23:2-3 - chair of Moses; observe whatever they tell you

:clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

 

[Rolltide]

Back to the topic do any catholics claim the bible is satisfactory for salvation.
Apparently it was good enough to get Linus in the door but after that he slammed it in everyone elses face. Catholic is a universal word for sure it replaces anything including the Father Son and HS including scripture and even closes the door on understanding Gods inspired word did I miss something?

Wow… apparently you’ve not only missed something, you’ve missed everything…

Out of curiousity, do you level this same criticism with the Orthodox as well? They share 99.5% of Catholic beliefs, but lack the position of pope.