The Vatican

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Poorer. Like a guy who has a big mansion and is forced to sell it and buy a decent sized house in a nice neighborhood is poorer than he was.

While it owns many priceless artifacts, those don’t bring in money. The vast majority of the budget of Vatican City is provided by the donations of the faithful.
Actually, nearly all of those artifacts are not owned by the Vatican. Rather, they are held in trust for the families or governments that left them with the Church for safe-keeping. That is why the Vatican could never sell them (as in that ridiculous movie The Shoes of the Fisherman).

Paul
 
The confusion is “deposit” as in monetary gain, and “deposit” of Faith.

Jealousy is just plain ugly, let us move past that trivia. I see no need to even defend such nonsense. Lord forbid we should be focused on that and miss a sinking lost Soul caught up in the material nothingness of today.

There’s no luggage rack on top of the hearse, what part of that are you not seeing? Pehaps someone should link the Popes Homily, you’d do well to actually listen to the message, instead of a simple dismissal in favor of you own illusion.

Peace
 
There’s no luggage rack on top of the hearse, what part of that are you not seeing? Pehaps someone should link the Popes Homily, you’d do well to actually listen to the message, instead of a simple dismissal in favor of you own illusion.
I posted some encyclicals in Eastern Catholic forum and none didn’t even know what I was talking about.
 
The Vatican Papacy is poor! ok . .:rolleyes:
Yes, relatively speaking.

Much poorer than the Orthodox Church of Greece, for example, which is the biggest landownder in Greece (except for the government) and has such vast holdings in properties that they have been estimated at 30 billion.
 
The Vatican Papacy is poor! ok . .:rolleyes:
This reminds me of what Christ said about pay taxes, he said whos name is on the money and they said Cesar… And he said give to Cesarr what belong’s to Cesar.

So who’s name is on Money. Gods. IN GOD WE TRUST. So the Pope should have all the money for he is the Vicar of Christ.😛 So give it up People:D

But truthfully speaking the Man is not Poor he is a millionare.

He is RICH in SPIRIT. THE HOLY SPIRIT that is. What more could you want in this life then to have the Powrer of the Holy Spirit given to you to speak in the voice of Christ.

And he is more then willing to share the wealth, and it won’t cost you a dime.
 
I must be strange, because the thought of what the Vatican owns has never been of interest to me. I find it humorous that it’s of interest to anyone.

As a Catholic, I’m glad that the Vatican is there. I know that if the Church’s governance were to be moved to a house in the suburbs for the sake of image, it would be a silly thing to do. No government in the world functions that way. The Russians had the Kremlin, the British have Parliament and Buckingham Palace, Americans have the White House and the Capitol, and each country has its official home that is a symbol of its power, place of prominence among its people and it place in the world. For me, the presence of the Vatican, is a very consoling image. It reminds me that the Church is present in the world in a way that is unique from any other government and society.

The fact that the Churches (Catholic and Orthodox) hold some of the world’s greatest treasures in trust says something very positive about the Catholic and Orthodox Churches. It says that despite everything, humanity trusts them. History has proven that they have never abused this treasures. They have protected them and made them available for the world to enjoy, study and feel connected with the God through beauty.

From a very practical point of view, I don’t pay the maintenance bill at the Vatican. All of these things require a great deal to maintain. When most people talk about the treasures at the Vatican they’re talking about the art that we can see. The truth is that there is an underground complex at the Vatican that holds more than there is above ground. There are writings, journals, documents from trials and meetings, memoirs, letters, case studies for canonizations, and much more that scientists, historians, archaeologists, and other disciplines benefit from at no expense to them. All of this requires a lot of money to maintain. I don’t pay for it, so I don’t worry about it. Someone has to maintain it or it will be lost forever. We know that governments come and go, whereas the Church will be there until the end of time. The way I figure it, let the Vatican government take care of all of this stuff and let it figure out how to pay the bill.

I’t too busy trying to be faithful in my corner of the world, without being too concerned either about the Vatican or the Orthodox treasures. It’s all very interesting to read about it or see a documentary about it, but not worth too much attention either.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
I must be strange, because the thought of what the Vatican owns has never been of interest to me. I find it humorous that it’s of interest to anyone.
It is often used as a club to bash the Church: “Why doesn’t the Catholic Church sell all that stuff and feed the poor?”
As a Catholic, I’m glad that the Vatican is there.
Me, too.
The Church protects and saves the artwork and knowledge of the centuries.
I love seeing the beautiful Vatican Masses on TV, too.

And I actually like the green sitting room. 😃 It is elegant and simple.
 
Now to the cats . . . when he became pope and had to move into Vatican City, he had to send his cats to Bavaria, where he owns a home with his brother, Fr. Giorg Ratzinger. The constitution of the Vatican City State does not allow pets that cannot be kept in a cage or fish thank.
I know you’re absolutely right…but…I read that there was no response given when a Vatican official was asked if the Pope had cats within the Vatican walls and that it very well might be a well kept secret that he does.
Personally, I know he loves them so much I am hoping he does have kitty companionship nearby.🙂
 
I always felt rather content that the time was taken by many throughout history to preserve history and in many areas of the Apostolic Church. I happen to catch a show on the Coptic Church in Egypt, no doubt there’s a well preserved history their also. The churchs have been persecuted throughout history, and artifacts have been moved, suppressed, hidden, relocated, the artifacts bear witness to specific truths in time and through time. A truth I suppose many would would just like to see go away.

Great example is St Faustinas dairy.
 
I know you’re absolutely right…but…I read that there was no response given when a Vatican official was asked if the Pope had cats within the Vatican walls and that it very well might be a well kept secret that he does.
Personally, I know he loves them so much I am hoping he does have kitty companionship nearby.🙂
Can you imagine the headlines. “Pope smuggles cat into Vatican City.” 😃

I’d like to see someone impose a fine on him. :rotfl:

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Can you imagine the headlines. “Pope smuggles cat into Vatican City.” 😃

I’d like to see someone impose a fine on him. :rotfl:

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
LOL!
I also read in the same article he feeds and pays attention to stray cats, even says a few things to them. I love him even more for loving them.🙂
 
Wow I feel like a peeping tom, wonder where those pics came from. I can’t believe he can’t have a cat, thats not right. 🙂
 
Hello brother JR!
The pope has no authority to change the constitution. Only the parliament of Vatican City State can do that and the Prime Minister has to sign off on it. The pope is the head of state for Vatican City, but not the head of government. He’s like the Queen of England.
Very interesting!

Here is the $64,000 question:

Who is the Prime Minister of Vatican City, and who are the members of parliament?

For a dollar more: How are these people chosen, and are these people residents of the Vatican City state?

Finally, is there a copy of the constitution online in English? I assume that the constitution was a product of Lateran accords between the Pope of the day and the Prime Minister of Italy in 1929.

Hoping you can help with this …
 
Hello brother JR! Very interesting!

Here is the $64,000 question:

Who is the Prime Minister of Vatican City, and who are the members of parliament?

For a dollar more: How are these people chosen, and are these people residents of the Vatican City state?

Finally, is there a copy of the constitution online in English? I assume that the constitution was a product of Lateran accords between the Pope of the day and the Prime Minister of Italy in 1929.

Hoping you can help with this …
The Fundamental Law of the Vatican City State is the current law code of the nation of Vatican City. It went into effect on February 22, 2001, and replaces the first Fundamental Law (of June 7, 1929). According to Article 1, Section 1 of the code:

**Article One (Powers)

Section One (Absolute Monarch)**
Art. 1 §1 declares that “The Supreme Pontiff, Sovereign of Vatican City State, has the fullness of legislative, executive and judicial powers.”

HOWEVER… the pope has designated almost all of his day-to-day powers to the Pontifical Commission for the Vatican City State. They act as Vatican City’s legislative body, and meet at The Palace of the Governorate. Members of the legislature are appointed directly by the pope, and serve for five years. In the event that a pope dies, the terms of all members of the Pontifical Commission immediately end, with the exception of the president, who helps serve as a caretaker leader until a new pope is elected. The current members of the legislature are:

Giuseppe Bertello, President
Cardinal Giovanni Battista Re
Cardinal José Saraiva Martins
Cardinal Jean-Louis Tauran
Cardinal Renato Raffaele Martino
Cardinal Attilio Nicora
Cardinal Leonardo Sandri

In addition to his legislative role, Guiseppe Bertello is also designated executive authority by the pope, essentially making him the President of the nation of Vatican City (under the absolute monarch, Pope Benedict XVI).

Here is a link to the Fundamental Law of the Vatican City State on Wikipedia.

And to correct JReducation, the new constitution of 2001 (The Fundamental Law of Vatican City State) was essentially decreed by the pope alone. He is indeed an absolute monarch.
 
Hello brother JR! Very interesting!

Here is the $64,000 question:

Who is the Prime Minister of Vatican City, and who are the members of parliament?

For a dollar more: How are these people chosen, and are these people residents of the Vatican City state?

Finally, is there a copy of the constitution online in English? I assume that the constitution was a product of Lateran accords between the Pope of the day and the Prime Minister of Italy in 1929.

Hoping you can help with this …
I believe that the members of the camera are appointed, not elected. The Secretary of State fills that role of the Prime Minister. He runs the government.

All people who serve in an official capacity in Vatican City are citizens of Vatican City State. They do not have to reside in the city. They can reside in Italy, but are not subject to the Italian government, because they are foreign citizens. When their duties end and they return to their homeland, they surrender their citizenship. For example, the Swiss Guard are citizens of the Vatican City and Switzerland. Cardinal Levada or Cardinal Burke, are US Citizens and Citizens of Vatican City State. They can travel on either passport.
I didn’t know that information was online. Good stuff. 👍

I found this too.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Vatican_City

It’s not a subject of common concern among Catholics. Very few of us know anything about it. I know bits and pieces from having gone to school in Rome. My policy is that if it does not help my spiritual journey, does not hinder my journey and is not of academic interest, then why spend time on it? 🤷

The ins and outs of the Vatican have no impact on my soul, health, welfare, ministry, nor do they trigger my intellectual curiosity. So when I hear this or that, I find it interesting, but not something that I really bother finding out more. That’s just me.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
For a dollar more: How are these people chosen, and are these people residents of the Vatican City state?
From Wikipedia:

**Citizenship

Pre-March 2011**

Unlike citizenship of other states, which is based either on jus sanguinis (birth from a citizen, even outside the state’s territory) or on jus soli (birth within the territory of the state), citizenship of Vatican City is granted jus officii, namely on the grounds of appointment to work in a certain capacity in the service of the Holy See. It usually ceases upon cessation of the appointment. Citizenship is extended also to the spouse, parents and descendants of a citizen, provided they are living with the person who is a citizen.[52][53]

Anyone who loses Vatican citizenship and does not possess other citizenship automatically becomes an Italian citizen as judged by Italian law.[19]
As of 31 December 2005, there were, apart from the Pope himself, 557 people with Vatican citizenship, while there were 246 residents in the state who did not have its citizenship.

Of the 557 citizens, 74% were clergy:
58 cardinals, resident in Rome, mostly outside the Vatican;
293 clergy, members of the Holy See’s diplomatic missions, resident in other countries, and forming well over half the total of the citizens;
62 other clergy, working but not necessarily living in the Vatican.
The 101 members of the Papal Swiss Guard constituted 18% of the total, and there were only 43 other lay persons with Vatican citizenship.[54]

Post-February 2011

On 22 February 2011, Pope Benedict XVI promulgated a new “Law concerning citizenship, residency and access” to Vatican City, which became effective on 1 March. It replaced the 1929 “Law concerning citizenship and residence”.[55] There are 16 articles in the new law, whereas the old law had 33 articles.[56] Vatican citizenship now has four categories: (1) the pope, (2) cardinals residing in Vatican City, (3) active members of the Holy See’s diplomatic corps, and (4) other directors of Vatican offices and services.[56] The new law created a new status, that of official Vatican “residents”, i.e., people who live in Vatican City but are not citizens.[56] As of 1 March 2011, the Vatican had 572 citizens, but only 220 of them were living in Vatican City.[56] The other 352 citizens were apostolic nuncios and diplomatic staff.[56] The 220 citizens living in Vatican City were among more than 800 people living in the Vatican.[56]
 
And to correct JReducation, the new constitution of 2001 (The Fundamental Law of Vatican City State) was essentially decreed by the pope alone. He is indeed an absolute monarch.
There was never a question of the pope decreeing it. He just doesn’t write it. The work is just like any other government. It’s done by legal experts and presented to the pope for his signature.

You are correct in that he is an absolute monarch. Actually, he’s probably the only elected absolute monarch in the world. Which sounds strange to our American ears.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
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