The very sad condition of Catholicism in France

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**France: Churches Vanish, Mosques Spring Up
**
Just one blurb taken from the article:

“In France there are laws protecting old trees. But the state is free to flatten old Christian churches. The vacuums created in the French landscape are already being filled by the booming mosques. Cowardly French authorities would never treat Islam as they are now treating Christianity.”

gatestoneinstitute.org/10777/france-churches-mosques
 
I’m in the last stretch of reading The Autobiography of Malcolm X with Alex Haley. The lesson of this book is the determined unity of Islam, which can be contrasted with the splintering of Christianity especially due to the “Reformation.” So. Muslims are content but determined to conquer the world, one inch at a time.

The explicit thesis in the book is that non-whites are uniting against white nations, with Islam as the rallying unifier. Malcolm X portrays Christianity as a failed religion. And, likewise, the United States had this declaration of independence based on the idea that all men are created equal, but has failed to fully implement that. History shows that only the preservation of the institution of slavery was the key to agreeing to the nationhood of the US. When you take away slavery, all you stand on is the Declaration which so many people in the US anyway feel inclined to disregard.

Spoiler: I didn’t read the article.

But, the lack of unity in Christianity, the in-fighting for centuries, is leading to its loss of influence. And, the use of contraceptives and abortion by Catholics is cutting itself off at the knees, in terms of sheer numbers of adherents.

My constant prayer is, Thy will be done.
 
Theodora said:
**France: Churches Vanish, Mosques Spring Up
**
Just one blurb taken from the article:

“In France there are laws protecting old trees. But the state is free to flatten old Christian churches. The vacuums created in the French landscape are already being filled by the booming mosques. Cowardly French authorities would never treat Islam as they are now treating Christianity.”

gatestoneinstitute.org/10777/france-churches-mosques
Click to expand...
Why blame the authorities?
If plentiful hard working Muslims abound to support and maintain their places of worship they are doing something right.

If French Catholics cannot do likewise with unsupportably expensive edifices that are more a monument to long past virtue than any present religion why should the secular State pick up the tab?

It is little to do with cowardly French authorities but a “catholic” population that is not actually Catholic, abortion/contraception and divorce/remarriage rates in “the Church” that have reduced the numbers of Catholics and made dysfunctional the faith of those who remain.

Needless to say Muslims have neither of the above problems hence by natural law we see playing out what we see.

That is not to say Muslims are particularly enlightened. However when a culture gets the basics of natural law as right as they do, for whatever reason, they win.
When you get the natural law basics wrong as we Western Europeans do, no matter how non-culpable (hmmmn), you eventually lose as a nation.

Its got nothing little to do with State authorities but everything to do with western Catholicism being of the world.
 
psalm90 said:
I’m in the last stretch of reading The Autobiography of Malcolm X with Alex Haley. The lesson of this book is the determined unity of Islam, which can be contrasted with the splintering of Christianity especially due to the “Reformation.” So. Muslims are content but determined to conquer the world, one inch at a time.

The explicit thesis in the book is that non-whites are uniting against white nations, with Islam as the rallying unifier. Malcolm X portrays Christianity as a failed religion. And, likewise, the United States had this declaration of independence based on the idea that all men are created equal, but has failed to fully implement that. History shows that only the preservation of the institution of slavery was the key to agreeing to the nationhood of the US. When you take away slavery, all you stand on is the Declaration which so many people in the US anyway feel inclined to disregard.

Spoiler: I didn’t read the article.

But, the lack of unity in Christianity, the in-fighting for centuries, is leading to its loss of influence. And, the use of contraceptives and abortion by Catholics is cutting itself off at the knees, in terms of sheer numbers of adherents.

My constant prayer is, Thy will be done.
Click to expand...
Islamic ‘unification’ is going very well -by having Salafists and Saudi-funded Wahabbis slaughtering Ahmadis, Sufis and Shia or forcing them convert to their strand of Islam.

The thesis non-whites are waging some sort of war on whites is absurd. Most aren’t interested and many don’t want to convert to Islam.

As for unity of Western Christianity, how will Catholicism work with those who have priestesses, allow gay ‘marriage’, treat contraceptives as candy and even proclaim abortion on demand as a ‘right’ and fornication, cohabitation, euthanasia and embryonic stem cell research as moral?
Catholicism could be closer to conservative/Evangelical Protestant groups because we still hold much in common on marriage, abortion and sexuality but how will the differences on Justification, the Eucharist, contemporary worship (for some), the nature of Papal authority, celibacy for the priesthood, Mary, saints and evolution (for some) be resolved. At best, a very tiny number of non-Fundamentalist Protestants are less enthusiastic about artificial contraception, notably some in at the top of the Southern Baptist Convention in America, the vast majority still find them acceptable. And there appear to be some Catholics who think being closer to these Protestant groups breeds ‘hate’, the apocalypse or something along those lines.
 
This makes me sick. The government prioritizes Islam over every other religion because they fear they don’t, they will be slandered. The way the world thinks is terrifying. Us Catholics can take a joke when Muslim mess with us, but when we make a joke about theirs it’s called racism? Do not get me wrong I don’t pick on anybody, or even joke about religion but for the world to be filled with people who think like that is disgusting. Especially gay marriage, we allow gay people to talk and we respect their beliefs, but when we try to share our beliefs that homosexuality is wrong the majority doesn’t even listen and people call us names. If they are allowed to share theirs why can’t we share ours? May God’s Kingdom come and rescue us from the problems of the world.
 
For some more positive vibes coming out of France:

communautesaintmartin.org/en/

Among other things they have given us a full diurnal Roman Antiphonary so that the modern Liturgy of the Hours can be chanted fully in Gregorian chant. Very much appreciated by this oblate.

heures-gregoriennes.com/en/

There are signs of hope coming out of France; also monastic life is thriving there, more vocations than here in Quebec that’s for sure!
 
I read this recently from Rod Dreher:

According to official figures, the number of ordinary Catholic priests will fall off a cliff, going from 14,000 at the present day to about 600 in 2038. That’s how fast current priests are retiring or dying — and they are not being replaced.
 
ATraveller said:
The thesis non-whites are waging some sort of war on whites is absurd. Most aren’t interested and many don’t want to convert to Islam.
Click to expand...
Oh no, we totally do. We meet once every month at President Obama’s private mosque to discuss how to destroy white people. Oprah brings home baked cookies.
 
France is the eldest daughter of the Church and holds a special place in our Lord’s heart. The Lord Jesus Christ appeared to Saint Margaret Mary Alacoque in France, and Our Lady appeared to Saint Catherine Laboure and Saint Bernadette Soubirous in France.

France may go through tough times like Gallicanism, the Enlightenment, the French Revolution and modernism, but our Lord won’t let her go.
 
“Cowardly French authorities would never treat Islam as they are now treating Christianity.”

They would if Muslims practiced Islam like Catholics practice Catholicism.

The Church needs to regain mission and develop leaders to obtain the results it wants. That’s what the Muslims are doing.
 
If we stop putting the blame on Islam and focus on our flaws…i imagine catholicism would be in a better state.
 
ChurchSoldier said:
“Cowardly French authorities would never treat Islam as they are now treating Christianity.”

They would if Muslims practiced Islam like Catholics practice Catholicism.

The Church needs to regain mission and develop leaders to obtain the results it wants. That’s what the Muslims are doing.
Click to expand...
I remember looking up information about Catholic missionary trips and stays and what not and I noticed something very weird these people are going to places that were already predominantly Catholic now France is predominantly Catholic if not practicing and I was thinking to myself maybe we need to go to these places that need to be read evangelised that need to hear the gospel again. I know enough French to get by but I’m by no means fluent and I would go there if I have the money but it’s not cheap. I’m not saying people shouldn’t go to developing countries that happened to be predominantly Catholic on Mission I’m saying that maybe we should evangelise the historical West too
 
if the remnants of french catholicism aren’t willing to do anything to defend their churches

what would you expect of the cowardly PC french government?
 
Sounds like you all are more concerned with old buildings than with pleasing God. These things are of the world, God’s plans seem to be right on schedule.
 
brian_custer said:
if the remnants of french catholicism aren’t willing to do anything to defend their churches

what would you expect of the cowardly PC french government?
Click to expand...
The point is, buildings are a reflection of the strength of the faith in the area. Most areas in the US have churches that are closing because spiritually speaking they are where France was a couple of decades ago.

If we don’t re-evangelize the US, we will see the same thing in a few decades.

I don’t think most people realize the seriousness of the decline, or their perception is not such to move them to action.
 
ChurchSoldier said:
“Cowardly French authorities would never treat Islam as they are now treating Christianity.”

They would if Muslims practiced Islam like Catholics practice Catholicism.
Click to expand...
True. Catholics simply wouldn’t stand up for their faith any more and secular authorities know that.

It would be interesting to look at how Muslims practice Islam and how that is different than how modern Catholics practice their own faith. Where Islam is growing in the world, there are certain characteristics in the teaching and practice. At one time Catholicism had the same aspects that we have since lost. Other aspects we never had and we reject as sinful also (polygamy, revenge, jihad, suicide).
The Church needs to regain mission and develop leaders to obtain the results it wants. That’s what the Muslims are doing.
Click to expand...
That idea of developing leaders caught my attention - so true. It’s not just priests and deacons, but well-formed lay-leaders are very much needed.

Secular businesses actually have some excellent leadership training concepts now (it has gotten much better over the years) – and it could all be used in the Church today. Of course, not without the spiritual formation that is essential.

I look at how Islam is growing around the world and there is so much to learn from them. I see it even here in the U.S. For fear of offending people here on CAF, I have to say that they take a very “masculine” approach and we can see the results. When you have a bunch of aggressive, highly-motivated, “driven” young men, fasting, praying, observing religious commandments, preaching and advancing their beliefs, willing to die for their belief, with a deep reverence and fear of the Lord, they’re going to take over the world.

The Catholic saints and missionaries did the same thing in past ages.
 
ChurchSoldier said:
I don’t think most people realize the seriousness of the decline, or their perception is not such to move them to action.
Click to expand...
That’s it.

Nobody is sounding the alarm. It’s a very severe crisis.

This story in the OP itself is hard to believe or imagine – and yet what it is really saying falls on deaf ears.
 
This puts me in mind of a recent piece Robert Royal wrote for The Catholic Thing. Although the article is about Edith Stein, he begins with this:

“Every generation thinks it’s living in unusual times. Ours really is. We are witnessing the passing of our civilization and – like someone having brain surgery while wide-awake – are conscious of what’s happening. Or at least a few of us are.
We’re suffering – among other things – massive amnesia. Juvenile rebellion, too, by people of all ages, against what’s taken to be “our civilization.” But the greater problem, by far, is that for most people our basic traditions have just dropped below the horizon. They don’t see that anything else than what they’re familiar with ever existed.”

We are witnessing the death of a civilization. But nobody notices because they never noticed that it was ever there in the first place.
 
Lessons can be learnt from Mainline Protestant denominations in North America: diluting Christian teachings to be hip doesn’t work. Appeasing secularists doesn’t work. As opposed to the Mainline ones, conservative/Evangelical Protestant denominations are stable or aren’t declining as fast because they haven’t watered down Christian teachings. When you conform to the patterns of the world, you perish with it.
 
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