C
Catholig
Guest
jesus-messiah.com/apologetics/catholic/mary.html
What do you guys think? Can you refute these claims?
Catholig
What do you guys think? Can you refute these claims?
Catholig
- Status
E
Eileen_T
Guest
To put it politely, someone should send him a roll of toilet paper.
I wouldn’t even waste my time doing anything other than praying that the Holy Spirit leads him to the Truth.
The man lost all credence when he repeated the false claim that the CC didn’t exist before 325 AD. I mean, seriously, it just shows he isn’t a true researcher or historian and has just repeated the myths of others who are outside the Church founded by Jesus.
I wouldn’t even waste my time doing anything other than praying that the Holy Spirit leads him to the Truth.
The man lost all credence when he repeated the false claim that the CC didn’t exist before 325 AD. I mean, seriously, it just shows he isn’t a true researcher or historian and has just repeated the myths of others who are outside the Church founded by Jesus.
L
LilyM
Guest
Let’s go through just a couple of the most obvious ones:
No Mary was not European - neither was Jesus, yet I assume our Pastor has no objections to HIM being portrayed as such.
Images and portrayals of her are dealt with on way too many threads around here - his claims of worship have been well-refuted.
Mary never went into a Catholic church - she certainly went into Christian churches (being home churches in those days). Christianity and Catholicism were largely if not exactly identical at that time, so she arguably went into Catholic churches. What she definitely never did was go into a church of our good Pastor’s denomination.
Holy Water - presumably Mary, as a devout Jewish woman, did indeed make use of the ritual baths at the Temple before she entered, quite possibly she was even baptised as Jesus himself was. Our Holy Water is symbolic of and descended from both of these practices.
Mary never prayed a Rosary? The Angel Gabriel certainly did, to her, as we do - the first half of the Hail Mary is directly from his own lips. So did Elizabeth - part of it is from her as well. Jesus gave us the Our Father, so he contributed to it as well!
No Mary was not European - neither was Jesus, yet I assume our Pastor has no objections to HIM being portrayed as such.
Images and portrayals of her are dealt with on way too many threads around here - his claims of worship have been well-refuted.
Mary never went into a Catholic church - she certainly went into Christian churches (being home churches in those days). Christianity and Catholicism were largely if not exactly identical at that time, so she arguably went into Catholic churches. What she definitely never did was go into a church of our good Pastor’s denomination.
Holy Water - presumably Mary, as a devout Jewish woman, did indeed make use of the ritual baths at the Temple before she entered, quite possibly she was even baptised as Jesus himself was. Our Holy Water is symbolic of and descended from both of these practices.
Mary never prayed a Rosary? The Angel Gabriel certainly did, to her, as we do - the first half of the Hail Mary is directly from his own lips. So did Elizabeth - part of it is from her as well. Jesus gave us the Our Father, so he contributed to it as well!
S
Spirithound
Guest
I’ll give a crack at it too…here are the untruths i found:
- St. Dominic lied, he used Mary as the source of it so it would be quickly accepted by all Catholics.
- The Catholic Church was formed by 318 or so Bishops at the Council of Nicaea. (i’m leaving the grammar errors in to further discredit the author–Spirithound)
- In fact, none of the Apostles were Catholic and never were in or a part of the Catholic Church.
- The confession booth was not installed in the Catholic Church until 1215AD and instituted by Pope Innocent III. (probably a lie, although i don’t know much about church architecture from the early ages–SH)
- Existence of purgatory was proclaimed to be a fact in the year 1438AD. Limbo was proclaimed to be a fact in the fifth century.
S
Spirithound
Guest
I would recommend that no one reads the cited site…the ignorance makes my head hurt. Especially the 8 things a Catholic learns when he reads his Bible. The “pastor” even had the courtesy to put the findings in chronological order for me.
I
Indyann
Guest
I just skimmed the first page and I did get a couple of chuckles. So if anyone is feeling a bit down, it is good for a
H
Hiromu
Guest
Many prayers for this man. I can’t believe I spent two minutes reviewing his rant about our Blessed Mother…
S
scott1228
Guest
A lot of protestants seemed to get wrapped around the axle about whether Jesus was Catholic, or whether the Virgin Mary was Catholic. The term “Catholic” is just one of the four marks of the Church. We could call her by any of the four, because she is indeed the only Christian Church that possesses all four. Or she could be called by something else, after all, a rose by any other name would smell as sweet.
The historical truth is that our Lord founded a Church. His mother, Ever-Virgin, is the most pre-eminent member of the Church, and worthy of honor and emulation. That Church has human authority which is safeguarded by divine grace. The early Church gives testimony to that authority, in fact, we have proof of deference to that authority before the Bible is itself assembled into one book, around the year 400.
When certain aspects of the teaching of the Church are called into question, she gathers to define her teaching. This doesn’t mean that before this time that she didn’t confess or believe that teaching. To say this would be akin to saying that there were no Holy Scriptures until the year 400.
The fact of the matter is that there are those who do not like this Church and its teachings, sometimes for understandable reasons (such as the shortcomings of its members), and choose to make a religion of their own liking. Despite whatever good intentions these people may have, and the number they draw to themselves, they remain only partially unified to the Body of Christ. And I hope their is no Christian who will testify that this division is the will of the Lord.
Let us thank the Lord during the Holy Easter-time for the gift of faith, and ask Mary, Ever-Virgin, to draw all her children together into one house.
The historical truth is that our Lord founded a Church. His mother, Ever-Virgin, is the most pre-eminent member of the Church, and worthy of honor and emulation. That Church has human authority which is safeguarded by divine grace. The early Church gives testimony to that authority, in fact, we have proof of deference to that authority before the Bible is itself assembled into one book, around the year 400.
When certain aspects of the teaching of the Church are called into question, she gathers to define her teaching. This doesn’t mean that before this time that she didn’t confess or believe that teaching. To say this would be akin to saying that there were no Holy Scriptures until the year 400.
The fact of the matter is that there are those who do not like this Church and its teachings, sometimes for understandable reasons (such as the shortcomings of its members), and choose to make a religion of their own liking. Despite whatever good intentions these people may have, and the number they draw to themselves, they remain only partially unified to the Body of Christ. And I hope their is no Christian who will testify that this division is the will of the Lord.
Let us thank the Lord during the Holy Easter-time for the gift of faith, and ask Mary, Ever-Virgin, to draw all her children together into one house.
J
JimG
Guest
I would say rather, that the Virgin Mary was the first Catholic!
She believed in Him first.
She believed in Him first.
C
Cari
Guest
Oh man, how many times have I seen all this nonsense from people who are willfully ignorant of what the Church teaches?
And you know what? A lot of that nonsense is presented in a much more attractive layout. That red line running through the text was very distracting. I almost missed some of his silliness.
Seriously, though, I wonder what someone like that would say when presented with a) the Catechism, which clearly dispels some of his falsehoods or b) writings prior to 325 by Church Fathers which would dispel the rest.
I wonder about people like this. I can see where understanding that Catholics don’t worship Mary might not fling you immediately into the nearest RCIA class, but to stubbornly spread something that is so easily shown to be false? What would he need to be shown to admit that Limbo isn’t a Church doctrine, that the earliest Christians DID celebrate Eucharist, and that the faithful don’t “buy” people’s souls out of Purgatory.
And don’t even get me started on this man’s assertation that, “Not one time did she burn a candle for any reason”. Wow, would that I were so privledged to know so much about Our Lady.
And you know what? A lot of that nonsense is presented in a much more attractive layout. That red line running through the text was very distracting. I almost missed some of his silliness.
Seriously, though, I wonder what someone like that would say when presented with a) the Catechism, which clearly dispels some of his falsehoods or b) writings prior to 325 by Church Fathers which would dispel the rest.
I wonder about people like this. I can see where understanding that Catholics don’t worship Mary might not fling you immediately into the nearest RCIA class, but to stubbornly spread something that is so easily shown to be false? What would he need to be shown to admit that Limbo isn’t a Church doctrine, that the earliest Christians DID celebrate Eucharist, and that the faithful don’t “buy” people’s souls out of Purgatory.
And don’t even get me started on this man’s assertation that, “Not one time did she burn a candle for any reason”. Wow, would that I were so privledged to know so much about Our Lady.
N
NotWorthy
Guest
I didn’t see Mary attending any altar calls, either!
C
Crumpy
Guest
Yes, another half-truth would be that Mary never read the Bible.
D. James Kennedy from Ft. Lauderdale (presbyterian) on tv usually makes a lot of hay about St. Patrick not being Catholic.
My recollection is that the “Roman Catholic” church came into being as a name for the half of the Church which was in schism from what became known as the Orthodox Church, around 1053 AD.
So, people like to play with these words, to galvanize and polarize people to suit political objectives.
D. James Kennedy from Ft. Lauderdale (presbyterian) on tv usually makes a lot of hay about St. Patrick not being Catholic.
My recollection is that the “Roman Catholic” church came into being as a name for the half of the Church which was in schism from what became known as the Orthodox Church, around 1053 AD.
So, people like to play with these words, to galvanize and polarize people to suit political objectives.
J
jmcrae
Guest
It always makes me feel sick to my stomach to see Our Lady being abused in this way. 
I think these people get so caught up in their hatred of us that they forget that She is a real person - and so is Her Son. :nope:
I think they are just lucky that Jesus is so patient with them - if someone talked about my Mama like that? :bigyikes:
Watch out.
I think these people get so caught up in their hatred of us that they forget that She is a real person - and so is Her Son. :nope:
I think they are just lucky that Jesus is so patient with them - if someone talked about my Mama like that? :bigyikes:
Watch out.
G
Grace_Angel
Guest
Its true strictly speaking Miriam of Nazareth was not a “catholic”
Catholic comes from the word “Katholicos” meaning universal. The Catholic Church is the universal Church founded by Jesus Christ.
Miriam of Nazareth, Kephas, and all the apostles and first followers of Jesus Christ were Hebrews. He came to the Jews and from them, especially via the medium of St Paul, the faith in the person of Yeshua of Nazaret Messiach) spread throughout the world.
The four Dogmas of Mary (The Mother of God, Perpetual Virginity, Immaculate Conception, Her Assumption body and soul into Heaven-last 1950) developed over the early years as the church had to defend against heresies, it was forced to look deeply and to make declarations.
Where ever a new heresy emerged, it served to assist the church to more clearly and deeply define its tenets and beliefs.
As with all other ex Cathedra teachings, the Church is infinitely wise and far seeing and before making definitive statements, it meditates, ponders, studies, and when all is right and in commuion with brother Bishops, the Bishop of Rome or Holy Father, makes a declaration which is binding on all catholics.
So to go back to your question, NO the Virgin Mary in her earthly life was not a “catholic” she was a Jewish maiden who from all time was chosen to bear the Son of God and to bring Him to human birth.
Grace Angel.
Z
Zooey
Guest
You & me both!!It always makes me feel sick to my stomach to see Our Lady being abused in this way.
I think these people get so caught up in their hatred of us that they forget that She is a real person - and so is Her Son. :nope:
I think they are just lucky that Jesus is so patient with them - if someone talked about my Mama like that? :bigyikes:
Watch out.
Oh, yeah: maybe somebody needs to tell that
that since the Virgin Mary never used a computer, he needs to fold up his site.Sheesh! What an idiotic load of claptrap!!
H
havemercy
Guest
What a waste of time that was.
C
Church_Militant
Guest
The man can’t even spell messiah.
Did anyone notice just how many straw men he set up and then decimated? As with most propaganda it may look fierce at first glance, but one simply has to ask yourself the question. “Is this true?” and it immediately begins to crumble as one begins to assemble facts.
For instance: He alleges that there was no unified Catholic Church prior to Constantine in 325.
I suspect that the disciples of St. John, Sts. Ignatius of Antioch and Polycarp might be surprised to hear that since Ignatius (the bishop of Antioch!) wrote to Polycarp, (the bishop of Smyrna!) in about 107-110 and outright called it the Church Catholic.
So does Mr. Reckart really know what he’s talking about? [SIGN]No.[/SIGN]
There is so much here that one can spend time refuting, but it’s much like sparing practice against a crippled man.
It’s really good to be able to refute this stuff because you can bet your socks that sooner or later you’re going to run into someone who says these kinds of things or something similar and if you’ve done your homework (and who likes homework,
especially on something as repulsive as this propaganda?) you will be able to reel off the facts in answer to them with quiet confidence and charity. Who knows… you might even win a soul!
Did anyone notice just how many straw men he set up and then decimated? As with most propaganda it may look fierce at first glance, but one simply has to ask yourself the question. “Is this true?” and it immediately begins to crumble as one begins to assemble facts.
For instance: He alleges that there was no unified Catholic Church prior to Constantine in 325.
I suspect that the disciples of St. John, Sts. Ignatius of Antioch and Polycarp might be surprised to hear that since Ignatius (the bishop of Antioch!) wrote to Polycarp, (the bishop of Smyrna!) in about 107-110 and outright called it the Church Catholic.
Acts 9:31 also alludes to this name when it refers to “the church throughout all”, which in the Greek is “ekklesia kath olos”.
So does Mr. Reckart really know what he’s talking about? [SIGN]No.[/SIGN]
There is so much here that one can spend time refuting, but it’s much like sparing practice against a crippled man.
It’s really good to be able to refute this stuff because you can bet your socks that sooner or later you’re going to run into someone who says these kinds of things or something similar and if you’ve done your homework (and who likes homework,
especially on something as repulsive as this propaganda?) you will be able to reel off the facts in answer to them with quiet confidence and charity. Who knows… you might even win a soul!
C
Cat
Guest
I didn’t read it, but is this man also saying that since Jesus/Mary wasn’t a Lutheran, the Lutheran church is false? Or since Jesus/Mary wasn’t an Assemblies of God attendee, that the AG church is false?
Or (insert names of any of the hundreds of Protestants denominations that aren’t in the Bible)…
Names, names, names!
I doubt the apostles called it “the Bible” back then, either. In fact, is the name “Bible” even in the Bible? Does that mean that the entire Bible is false?! Arrgh!
Or (insert names of any of the hundreds of Protestants denominations that aren’t in the Bible)…
Names, names, names!
I doubt the apostles called it “the Bible” back then, either. In fact, is the name “Bible” even in the Bible? Does that mean that the entire Bible is false?! Arrgh!
M
mommyof4
Guest
She did give us one of the prayers at Fatima -"Oh my Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of hell. Lead all souls to heaven, especially those who are in most need of thy mercy.’
M
mommyof4
Guest
She did give us one of the prayers at Fatima -"Oh my Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of hell. Lead all souls to heaven, especially those who are in most need of thy mercy.’
- Status