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justasking4
Guest
Don’t you believe though that Mary still has this?
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jmcrae
Guest
Of course!!
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justasking4
Guest
On what grounds? Are you aware that the Scriptures never speak of her like this?Of course!!
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jmcrae
Guest
On the grounds that I firmly hope and expect to do the same when I get to Heaven. Why would I think that Mary has fewer rewards in Heaven than I will, when I get there?
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LilyM
Guest
Why not? Do you believe YOU will lose the power you have here on earth through prayer when you die? Isn’t the idea that if we die in Christ we do MORE than we could on earth, not less?
In fact Christ promised that we could do greater works than HE did on Earth. Now you and I know that no-one who’s followed Him has done greater on earth, so it stands to reason that we will do these ‘greater works’ in heaven after death.
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justasking4
Guest
The hope you have has no grounding in any facts of the Scriptures. Speculations are not the basis for hope. Now compare this with the hope we have in Christ Who died and rose again on our behalf and intercedes for us before the Father. All of this can be grounded in the Scriptures. This is what the Scriptures call us to. It does not exhort us to put any faith in Mary.On the grounds that I firmly hope and expect to do the same when I get to Heaven. Why would I think that Mary has fewer rewards in Heaven than I will, when I get there?
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jmcrae
Guest
How is it “putting my faith in Mary” to say that she can pray?
As opposed to my priest, or to my best friend, who also have the ability to pray? (Am I putting my trust in them in an idolotrous manner if I ask them to pray for me?)
Also, if we aren’t going to be able to pray in Heaven, then what will be the point of going there, in the first place, anyway? How would it be different than Hell?
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Mannyfit75
Guest
Catholics will tell you that we put faith in God. We don’t put more faith in Mary. We do honor her that is due to her relationship with her son. Jesus love his mother, so should all Christians.
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davidv
Guest
On the grounds that we are made in the image and likeness of God. When, and if, we achieve heaven, then the image and likeness will be perfected, not changed.
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justasking4
Guest
You must have some “faith” in Mary if you believe that she can hear your prayers and that she can bring these prayers to Christ. There is no way around this.
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davidv
Guest
Faith yes, but not “faith” as you define it. It is the same faith I’d have in you if I asked you to pray for me.
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LilyM
Guest
We have faith in both God’s power to enable her and all the saints to hear our prayers in this way, and faith in His wish and desire to do so. We have faith in His love for all His living and dead saints and in His desire to use them as co-operators in His work, as He uses us. For their sakes and ours if not for His own greater glory.
He does grant them these abilities and powers, in order that ALL members of Christ’s body may work together. What person doesn’t want their body working as a unified whole? What person wants half of their body dead and inactive and unable to work together with the other half? Christ is no different.
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justasking4
Guest
Do you agree though that you must have some faith in Mary and the saints when you pray to them?
This is speculation. What we desire here doesn’t mean its true in the next life.
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justasking4
Guest
How do you think i’m defining “faith” here?
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justasking4
Guest
You must believe that she can and does pray for you when you petition her. You must put your “faith” in this kind of thing when you pray.jmcrae;2754076]How is it “putting my faith in Mary” to say that she can pray?
When you ask someone here to pray for you here, you must believe that they understand you and will pray for you. This also takes faith on your part to do this.
no.
Christ is our great High Priest for us and He alone has the power and authority to handle all our prayers. The point of us going to heaven is not to answer the prayers of those here. The scriptures certainly don’t teach such a thing.
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LilyM
Guest
As jmcrae said, the same faith I have in you if I ask you to pray for me. The same faith you have in your pastor or whoever when you ask them to pray for you. You suggesting that I shouldn’t ask anyone for prayers now?
It’s not speculation, it’s reason. Learn the difference. We are indeed the Body of Christ, as Paul points out. We become so both in baptism and in the receiving of the Eucharist.
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Peter_Da_Rock
Guest
His mother asked him to do something.
Jesus responded, it’s not my time yet.
Is that time now, when he is in heaven?
Any answer would be speculation?
Is there an explicit declaration of what “His Time” is?
Jesus responded, it’s not my time yet.
Is that time now, when he is in heaven?
Any answer would be speculation?
Is there an explicit declaration of what “His Time” is?
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apophasis
Guest
We don’t have two natures. Christ is unique.
In respect to the two natures of Christ, His humanity did not take on deity, nor did His deity take on humanity. He is “fully” man and “fully” God. Not some kind of hybrid of the two. Nestorianism advocates two separate persons, not two natures in one Person. So drop the accusations of Nestorianism.
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jmcrae
Guest
And all of Him - both His deity and His humanity - was in Mary’s womb, and emerged from there in the fullness of time.
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Good_Fella
Guest
“For he has looked upon his handmaid’s lowliness;
behold, from now on will ages call me blessed.
The Mighty One has done great things for me,
and holy is his name.” {Luke 1:48-49}
“And how does this happen to me,
that the mother of my Lord should come to me?” {Luke 1:43}
When the wine ran short, the mother of Jesus said to him, “They have no wine.” {John 2:3}
You embrace the false principle ‘sola Christus’ (Christ alone) which derives from the equally false doctrine ‘sola fide’ (faith alone). As a result, you deny any role for human beings in God’s plan of salvation, including Mary. Ironically, these concepts you hold are unscriptural, not our Marian doctrines. :nope:
We are all saved by participating in Christ’s work. Mary participates along with the rest of us in her unique way, a special privilege granted her by our heavenly Father. She must me viewed in light of the saving activity of the Holy Trinity in human history. Paul says that he magnifies his ministry to make the Jews jealous and thus save some of them. He adds that he is the one who is doing the saving, but what he means is that he participates in Christ’s salvific work ( Rom 11:13-14). The apostle also indicates that a wife can save her husband and a husband his wife, for we are lesser mediators in Christ’s work ( 1Cor 7:16). We have become all things to men that we might save some. Only God saves, but his children participate in his salvation. God desires that we join him in love and faith ( 1Cor 9:22; Prov 16:6). Paul tells Timothy that he will save both himself and his hearers. Christ is the only Saviour, but he wants us to participate in his atonement for our sins, for we are members of one body in Christ ( 1Tim 4:16). Indeed, if we bring back a sinner to God, we will save our own souls from death, for we have acted in faith and love in the Lord’s name. We are saviours in the Saviour, our Lord Jesus Christ (James 5:20). “My soul proclaims the greatness of the Lord. My spirit rejoices in God my saviour” (Luke 1:46-47). We are instructed to save some people by snatching them out of the fire ( Cf. ‘The Glories of Mary’). We participate in our salvation and that of others (Jude 22-23). Are you aware that the scriptures never speak of her “not” like this?
The truth about Mary’s role in the economy of salvation can come only from a full understanding of the scriptures and the portrayal of Mary in Scripture. This full realization results from a deep study of the two covenants between God and his people. Mary is the bridge between the Old and New Covenants. The two covenants are essential to God’s plan of salvation, and Mary’s role in God’s saving work becomes obvious when we see that she is the living embodiment of fundamental themes in the Old and New Testaments: as Daughter of Zion, the Ark of the Covenant, and the new Eve working with the new Adam. Once we arrive at an understanding of the scriptural Mary, our entire understanding of the significance of Scripture will be transformed. Our Marian doctrines and devotions, which originate from the infant apostolic Church, only dimly convey the full majesty of Mary as she is portrayed in Scripture. Luke 1 and 2 alone are a compendium of all our Marian doctrines.
Your rejection of Mary is unscriptural. :yup:
Pax vobiscum
Good Fella
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