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Goth_Catholic
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So because of one writing all others must also be false?
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Ginger2
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Quote Vic: “You cannot prove this.”
Quote Rob: “She can’t, and hasn’t even a “tinker’s chance in hades” of doing it.”
Then you really are saying that God could protect Mary from original sin, but not Jesus. Interesting.
Quote Rob: “She can’t, and hasn’t even a “tinker’s chance in hades” of doing it.”
Then you really are saying that God could protect Mary from original sin, but not Jesus. Interesting.
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VociMike
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Judas was a false Apostle, therefore all the Apostles were false.
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RobHom
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No, it wasn’t…which I already pointed out. A little “slow” tonite?
Totally irrelevant and out of context besides.
Out of context as well…
Oh, really? Thats truly “debatable”. If your’s was the TRUTH, then why do not another ONE BILLION PEOPLE, specifically Catholics believe your line? Simple. Yours is not the FULL and UNCOMPROMISED TRUTH!! I would assess “protestantism” as being a “johnny-come-lately” burger king variety of “religion”…where you pick and choose that which is convenient for you to believe…nothing more and nothing less.
Your sunday school teacher should give you an “attaboy” for towing the “party line” so hard…
What you have expressed is merely your opinion. Catholics are not bound by your opinion. In fact, both your “opinion” and lack of belief…is irrelevant to Catholics.
Yep, and I and others have already given you plenty of homework via the links we have posted. You need to be a good boy and go do your homework and stop asking silly questions redundantly.
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RobHom
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No, and you shouldn’t try to put words in my mouth. All I said was that you couldn’t prove it.
Whats interesting…actually its not, but really odd that you persist in asking foolish and “cheesy” questions. Is this a “sunday school homework project”…or are you vainly trying to jack up your low self esteem?
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RobHom
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No…its not false… But what it is …is something that literally destroys the silly notion of “sola scriptura”, “saved by faith alone” and all the rest of the heretical nonsense…and simply because James clearly makes the statement that "FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD!!! And thats what y’all can’t handle…DEAD…DEAD…COMPLETELY DEAD
I get a real kick out of this…21st century “nobodies” declaring the writings of a God Inspired man …to be false… Go figure.
Sorry sport…your opinion is just “weightless”.
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RobHom
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So then…what you’re trying to say in a strange way is that you “have the mind of God”??? Or are the “voices” telling you this?Spiritually discerned.
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sandusky
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Paul’s words are clear, Mike; the difficulty you have is not intellect, but spirit.
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Goth_Catholic
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James 2: 20No…its not false… But what it is …is something that literally destroys the silly notion of “sola scriptura”, “saved by faith alone” and all the rest of the heretical nonsense…and simply because James clearly makes the statement that "FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD!!! And thats what y’all can’t handle…DEAD…DEAD…COMPLETELY DEAD
I get a real kick out of this…21st century “nobodies” declaring the writings of a God Inspired man …to be false… Go figure.
Sorry sport…your opinion is just “weightless”.
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sandusky
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You’re confusing me with Mother T.So then…what you’re trying to say in a strange way is that you “have the mind of God”??? Or are the “voices” telling you this?
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sandusky
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The Jews opinions of Christ far outnumbered those whom He had chosen; does that render Christ’s teachings irrelevant? Of course, not; I would not put any stock in numbers; God always works through a remnant; one He sets aside for Himself (Rom 9 & 11).
The writings of the ECFs, the present RCC magisterium, and the reformers are not scripture; at least not yet; perhaps if the Lord continues to tarry, your church will define her extra-canonical teachings as such; only God knows.
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rlg94086
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Yes, but you said it was transmitted from the father, not the mother. The Church teaches no such thing. It was transmitted from Adam to “all mankind.” At least in what you quoted, it does not say that it is passed through fathers only.
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RobHom
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Granted, however I was not speaking in terms of Christ’s time, I was speaking in terms of now. While He may work through a remnant, I think I would be most cautious of leaping to conclusions and trying to lift up that yoke as you seem to be trying to…
So, I guess what you are saying is that the writings of the Early Christian Fathers are “meaningless”, and so are the Church’s? Isn’t that a tad arrogant to say that? Now when it comes to some of the writings of the reformists… I might be inclined to agree.
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RobHom
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Hardly…and that above was a “cheap shot”…
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rlg94086
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The topic is “The Virgin Mary,” and your original post just asked if the Church taught she was sinless her whole lifetime.
The question was answered.
As far as your newer question - “No, I am not trying to argue whether or not Mary was sinless. I am asking what difference it would make to God’s plan.” I can’t speak for everyone, but it just isn’t that interesting of a question to me.
People have explained the reasoning behind the Church’s teaching, but I don’t think I need to know why it was important to God.
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Ginger2
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rig,
“evil and death cannot be understood apart from their connection with Adam’s sin and the fact that he has transmitted to us a sin with which we are all born afflicted,”
Compare to:
Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, 14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come. 15 …how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!
Original sin is not an act - it is a human condition. The only time Eve is included in this is thru “by propagation” Adam can’t reproduce without Eve.
BTW…someone said they were using Lutheran doctrine to debate me because that is where I get most of my theological teaching - wrong. I was raised Catholic and that is where my basic beliefs were born.
“evil and death cannot be understood apart from their connection with Adam’s sin and the fact that he has transmitted to us a sin with which we are all born afflicted,”
Compare to:
Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, 14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come. 15 …how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!
Original sin is not an act - it is a human condition. The only time Eve is included in this is thru “by propagation” Adam can’t reproduce without Eve.
BTW…someone said they were using Lutheran doctrine to debate me because that is where I get most of my theological teaching - wrong. I was raised Catholic and that is where my basic beliefs were born.
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Ginger2
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Well, it’s taken me awhile, but I think I’ve found an answer to the “prove it” challenge that is consistent with Catholicism.
What, therefore, did not exist, the Scripture [Gnostic false doctrine] was unable to mention; and by not mentioning it, it has given us a clear proof that there was no such thing: for if there had been, the Scripture would have mentioned it. (Tertullian, Against Hermogenes, ch 20)
What, therefore, did not exist, the Scripture [Gnostic false doctrine] was unable to mention; and by not mentioning it, it has given us a clear proof that there was no such thing: for if there had been, the Scripture would have mentioned it. (Tertullian, Against Hermogenes, ch 20)
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RobHom
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OK, this is your opinion? I’ll grant it some credence, but its irrelevant to the point.
OK, ditto.
Wrong. Eve did not have “original sin”. When God created her, she was sinless. She sinned of her free will, as did Adam. Their offspring, and the succeeding generations had “original sin”.
I did not say that I was using Lutheran doctrine to debate you. I gave you the link…(did you read it?) to further give proof that even the reformists, in fact the principal among them agreed with the Catholic Church…even though he was literally violently opposed to the Church.
I did not say that you get most of your theology from Lutherans, I said that PROTESTANTS get most of their theology from Luther’s writings. Please be kind enough to actually read and assimilate what is presented.
That you abandoned the Church is a shame. And were your “basic beliefs” born of the Catholic Church…you would already know and would have accepted the answers that were given you here.
Face a simple set of facts: Nothing you can say here or anywhere else makes a lick of difference to a Catholic. Your, and your “religions” differences with the Catholic Church are solely a problem of yours. We believe in Mary’s Immaculate Conception, her absolutely sinless life, and her Assumption into Heaven. Thus it was and forever shall be. Neither you, nor anyone else can change that fact.
If “scripture” was so exact, why then is there more than one church. Why are there so many thousands upon thousands of protestant denominations all of whom disagree with each other even to the point of violence? In fact, if scripture were as inerrant as you are led to believe…then why is there more than one gospel. Why do Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John all start and end differently. Why do they not all agree on every point. Why does Paul not agree with Christ?
That you have embraced, apparently, the premise of “sola scriptura” is sad…because while you rail on and on about scripture…and man-made traditions of the Catholic Church… you have wholeheartedly embraced a man-made tradition that was begun in the 1500’s, and is false in its entirety. You and others speak of false teachers…hardly a safe position for a protestant.
If you would like illumination on this, I am willing to give it to you.
My suggestion to you…is accept that which YOU cannot change, ask GOD to enlighten you, and return to the ONE TRUE CHURCH.
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RobHom
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Irrelevant. It does not note what “subject” it applies to. The only hint at what it applies to is: Gnostic false doctrine. The Church has never embraced “gnostic false doctrine”, therefore what you have quoted is useless and irrelevant.
You really should stop trying to “limit God” and shove him in a box that you have created out of thin air…
I can only surmise that were Jesus Christ to appear on earth, today, before you…and performed a dozen “miracles”, and further showed you his wounds…you would accuse Him of being little more than a “magician”…and say: What happened today is not in the scriptures, therefore it cannot be.
You cannot change what is, because it is, and it always will be. Get over it.
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guanophore
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This is not the place for you to be posting your erroneous nonsense, paarsuurey. The Catholic Church teaches the truth about Mary, which is that she lived with the Apostle John until it was time for her to leave the earth, at which time she was taken up in to heaven, where she now resides with her Divine Son. What you have been taught about her living in India is misinformation. It is not appropriate for you to try to pander anti-catholic doctrine on this board,a nd is a violation of the forum rules.
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