I thought the focus of this thread was about Mary committing personal sin. For example, in post #6 you asked “How would Mary’s having committed a minor sin effect Jesus’ mission? My salvation?”
They sinned in Adam.
If this “folks” are the folks I think they may be…they “say” alot of things, and a lot of them are not correct. “They” would be a group or groups of people who “interpret” the bible to fit their needs and agendas.
No, it is not. That you cannot grasp the Truth…is your shortcoming. What you are beginning to parrot is simply what was drilled into you… What we have all been explaining to you is what is the TRUTH according to OUR beliefs and they are the BELIEFS of the Holy Catholic Church. They are the tenets, no actually they are greater than “tenets”…that define our beliefs.
And you believe that “just because its not concisely spelled out in the bible”…it doesn’t or can’t be. Isn’t that really a very, very narrow minded viewpoint? I have to assume that you are completely unawares of the volumes of writings of truly inspired Holy Men that formed the Catholic Church’s dogma. Am I right? I would have to also guess that you are completely unawares of the thoughts of the founders of the reformation on this subject as well. Am I right? I think so. Lest you continue “unknowing”, click on the following link and begin a journey of discovery of the “TRUTH” about Christianity.
Again, read the document quoted above, and ask yourself this question: Am I (you) so full of pride and arrogance that I (you) believe I (you) am more capable of knowing about sacred writings and God’s will that I (you) am scripturally and intellectually SUPERIOR to Martin Luther, and other Reformers??? I think we all know the answer to that question.
My point is that in order for The Blessed Virgin to be able to carry God Himself in her womb and suckle Him at her breast and otherwise have an intimate relationship with Him as His mother as He was growing up, she had to be without sin.
And yet, God dwelt among sinful men, in the same room, together with them.
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But…Jesus Christ was not sent by God to hang out with Holy Men. He was sent to save “sinners”…thus he fulfilled His Father’s plan according to His will.And yet, God dwelt among sinful men, in the same room, together with them.
That’s gobbledy-gook. It is a sequence of words without meaning.
You cannot prove this. You simply state your opinion as a fact. The actual fact is, we do not know if Jesus could have become Incarnate through a sinful mother. No matter what you believe, it is just that - your personal belief. Neither is is possible for a Catholic to answer “no” as a fact. We simply don’t know.
If you didn’t (and maybe you didn’t - I’m not going to go back and check) then why are you arguing so hard for Mary to be a sinner? Your insistence on Mary’s sinfulness is such a common Protestant theme that I may have assumed you were relying on “all have sinned”.
But he didn’t acquire his perfect human nature from them.And yet, God dwelt among sinful men, in the same room, together with them.
No my dear, I am not in the least bit confused. Here’s a simple fact: “protestants” who test for truth using only scriptures…limit God, and His ability to do what he can do. And what is really humorous about it is that “protestants” use the bible as set forth by the canon of the Catholic Church…except that y’all threw out some very important books in the process of trying to allegedly redefine “Christianity”.
Lutheran EQUALS protestant. Its that simple. You, as a protestant, whether or not you realize it, base the majority of your beliefs on those put forth by the reformists…one of whom was Martin Luther, and that is an irrefutable fact.
Thats simple…what better way to prove a point than to use an opponents very own theological views? And, as a Catholic, fully possessing free will…I can make the decision as to where I gather the intelligence information to prove my point.
We have discussed it. You just haven’t bothered to either read the information…or are just unwilling to accept the TRUTH according to our faith and beliefs.
This is not a truth. Believing in Mary does not set a person free. Only following Christ alone can do that. There is not one verse or passage that comes even close to claiming Mary was sinless. Its not about being protestant or smarter than Luther and the reformers but what do the scriptures teach? A person could easily look up all the references in the Bible on Mary and never find this idea that she was sinless and other claims made by the catholic church. All that we know about Mary is only found in the scriptures. Anything else after the 1st centuries are fictions.Ginger, what I am about to say…don’t take it personally. Its not meant to be. I see a definite progression of a “downhill” nature in your questions and comments…they are very “protestant”. Hopefully we can get you on the right path to the “FULL TRUTH”
No, it is not. That you cannot grasp the Truth…is your shortcoming. What you are beginning to parrot is simply what was drilled into you… What we have all been explaining to you is what is the TRUTH according to OUR beliefs and they are the BELIEFS of the Holy Catholic Church. They are the tenets, no actually they are greater than “tenets”…that define our beliefs.
And you believe that “just because its not concisely spelled out in the bible”…it doesn’t or can’t be. Isn’t that really a very, very narrow minded viewpoint? I have to assume that you are completely unawares of the volumes of writings of truly inspired Holy Men that formed the Catholic Church’s dogma. Am I right? I would have to also guess that you are completely unawares of the thoughts of the founders of the reformation on this subject as well. Am I right? I think so. Lest you continue “unknowing”, click on the following link and begin a journey of discovery of the “TRUTH” about Christianity.
orthodoxlutheran.fws1.com/bvm.html
Specifically read the 6th & 7th paragraphs. And understand that the true significance here is that a. This is from a LUTHERAN website, and b. It is directly quoting Martin Luther, the Reformist.
Again, read the document quoted above, and ask yourself this question: Am I (you) so full of pride and arrogance that I (you) believe I (you) am more capable of knowing about sacred writings and God’s will that I (you) am scripturally and intellectually SUPERIOR to Martin Luther, and other Reformers??? I think we all know the answer to that question.
Its a solved mystery. Nothing any “protestant” can or will ever say will change the “TRUTH”. Ginger…its an old saying, but its ever so true… The TRUTH will set you free!!