The Virgin Mary

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rlg94086 said:
Of course not Ginger2. God knew exactly what Johah would choose to do and what would happen to him. By definition, it would have been impossible for God to pick the wrong person for any task. It’s that whole omniscient, omnipotent thing. 🙂
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Indeed, if Jonah had in fact said “no” and firmly meant it, then he would never have eventually gone to Nineveh. But since he did eventually go to Nineveh, God asked him to go there. God knew he would change his mind. He would never have asked Jonah to go to Nineveh if He already knew that his “no” would be permanent. That would have been tantamount to a mistake on God’s part, for he would have asked the wrong person. But God cannot be God if He is imperfect. In his omniscience God knew that Jonah would say “yes” and so He asked him to go to Nineveh. It was divinely imperative that he does go there. Likewise, God knew that Mary would choose to say yes, and so the angel Gabriel greeted her with his message. It was imperative that God approach a woman specifically created to say “yes”, for her “No” would have meant no Saviour in the world. :nope:

Pax vobiscum
Good Fella :cool:
 
Ginger2 said:
Good Fella,

You better go back and read your previous posts. In this excerpt alone:

“IF MARY HAD SAID NO GOD COULD NOT HAVE "ACCOMPLISHED HIS PLAN” UNLESS HE FOUND ANOTHER WOMB! IF HE KNEW MARY WOULD SAY NO, THEN HE WOULD HAVE ASKED ANOTHER WOMAN INSTEAD OF MARY. … GOD COULD NOT HAVE ACCOMPLISHED HIS PLAN WITHOUT HAVING FIRST MADE THE MISTAKE OF ASKING THE WRONG WOMAN!"

"You make several false claims about God.

"IF MARY HAD SAID NO GOD COULD NOT HAVE “ACCOMPLISHED HIS PLAN” but God has always accomplished His plans even when people said “no”.

IF HE KNEW MARY WOULD SAY NO, THEN HE WOULD HAVE ASKED ANOTHER WOMAN" Name one time when God changed His plan because a human said “no”.

“GOD COULD NOT HAVE ACCOMPLISHED HIS PLAN WITHOUT HAVING FIRST MADE THE MISTAKE OF ASKING THE WRONG” God did not ask someone else when Jonah said “no” And Jonah didn’t simply reconsider and change his mind. God threw Him inside the bowels of a fish and let Jonah think it over for awhile. Read the book of Jonah and consider how your explanations fit into his scenario.
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I was speaking hypothetically to show what false conclusions your reasoning was leading to. You are the one who said Jonah said “no”, but he in fact said “yes”, didn’t he? He went to Niniveh. God knew that he would say “yes” What I’m saying is that God chose Mary because he knew she would say “yes”. She had to say “yes” to accomplish God’s plan. The Redeemer had to be born of a woman. God could not have asked a woman who would have said “no”. That’s why He chose a woman who would say “yes”. Jonah still changed his mind after much agitation and procrastination. The whale scene must be taken figuratively. His conscience compelled him to go after all. 😉

Pax vobiscum
Good Fella
 
Jaypeeto4,

From within this website:

Tertullian

God alone is without sin. The only man who is without sin is Christ; for Christ is also God (The Soul 41:3 [A.D. 210]).

The origins of both his substances display him as man and as God: from the one, born, and from the other, not born (The Flesh of Christ 5:6–7 [A.D. 210]).

I included that second paragraph because it asserts what I said in a previous post, “Jesus is God, but God is not Jesus” That is why I agree Mary is the mother of Jesus, but not the mother of God. God does not have a mother.
 
Ginger2 said:
Jaypeeto4,

“Jesus is God, but God is not Jesus” That is why I agree Mary is the mother of Jesus, but not the mother of God. God does not have a mother.
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God is divine
JESUS IS GOD
Therefore, Jesus is divine.

Jesus is divine
GOD IS NOT JESUS
Therefore, God is not divine.

You just contradicted yourself again. 😉

Nestorious was condemned as a heretic by reasoning along the same lines. 43% of evangelicals don’t believe that Jesus was both God and man in one divine person. Mothers bear persons, not natures. Jesus has a divine and human nature. And you dare to question the teachings of the Catholic Church? :eek:

Mary is the mother of Jesus, therefore, Mary is the Mother of God.

Pax vobiscum
Good Fella :cool:
 
:rotfl:

Good Fella said:
"God is divine
JESUS IS GOD
Therefore, Jesus is divine.

Jesus is divine
GOD IS NOT JESUS
Therefore, God is not divine."

You keep drawing false conclusions. The example you state is like those who say: “God is love, therefore love is god.” (I know… not the best example, but it should make the point)

Jesus is God. Scriptures attest to this fact. “Before Abraham, I am.”

God is not Jesus. Scriptures attest to this fact. God cannot die.

I realize this is a difficult concept to understand, but it is even more difficult to explain.

Jesus testified Jhn 14:28 “… for my Father is greater than I.”

Psa 8:5 “For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.” Is God the Father “lower than the angels”

Why is this any harder to understand then when Jesus says "no one comes to the Father except thru me and no one comes to me except the Father send him?

There is one God who can do all things - things beyond human understanding.
 
Let me get this straight.

Jesus is God. . . but God is NOT Jesus?

Is God a ‘whole’ or is He a PART?

If God is a “whole”, then God the Father = God the Son = God the Holy Spirit = God the Father, etc.

God is most certainly Jesus. He is ALSO Father and Spirit.

Jesus is God–Jesus is by definition, Father and Spirit. They are ALL ONE.

By His human nature, Jesus, in addition to being God --who is all together, Father, Son, and Spirit, three in one (not three ‘separate’ parts), is also a human being, born of the Virgin Mary, who lived on this planet approximately 33 years, was crucified, died, was buried, ROSE FROM THE DEAD and has ascended into heaven.

You seem to state, Ginger, that God is composed of Parts, of which ONE part (God the Father) is ‘greater’ than the SECOND part (God the Son) and probably the Third (God the Holy Spirit). So you accept that Jesus is ‘mostly God’ but not ‘completely or fully God’ because he is LESSER than the “God the Father” part.

This would not be a Trinity of Three Divine Persons in ONE God who are equal; rather a hierarchy of:

God the Father (the whole enchilada)
God the Son (Lesser than God the Father though somehow He is still ‘God’ but He isn’t equal to God, so he ‘lacks’ some part of God or because He is also man, the ‘addition’ takes away some of the God).
God the Holy Spirit (probably by this logic lesser than God the Father because Jesus didn’t say, “The Father AND the Spirit are greater than I”)

So the Scripture that says, from Jesus, “Whoever has seen Me, has seen the Father”, and “I and the Father are ONE” must be faulty, because they imply that Jesus is FULLY God, and not some demigod. The Scripture which has pointed out, implicitly and explicitly, the triune nature of God must be wrong because some people living nearly 2000 years after the Church taught the nature of God have cherrypicked ONE VERSE, out of context, to claim that because Jesus said He was ‘lesser’ than the Father, that the “parts” of God are not all, fully God. Some are more ‘godder’ than others. . .🤷
 
There is one God, not three.

Jesus is fully God and fully man.

God is not a man. God is not lower than the angels. God cannot die.

You don’t get it because you put limitations on God.

“You heard that I said to you, 'I go away, and I will come to you ’ If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced because I go to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.” John 14:28
 
Ginger2 said:
There is one God, not three.

Jesus is fully God and fully man.

God is not a man. God is not lower than the angels. God cannot die.

You don’t get it because you put limitations on God.

“You heard that I said to you, 'I go away, and I will come to you ’ If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced because I go to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.” John 14:28
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This is rank Nestorianism if you confess that God did no die on the Cross and God never made himself lower than the angels by taking a human nature. Otherwise you confuse Christ to be two persons.
 
Mary is not the mother of God??
Sorry, but oh yes she is.
God became a man without ceasing to be God the Word the whole time he was in the flesh.
Now, the invisible ESSENCE of Deity itself cannot die, if by die you mean Go Out Of Existence. If that’s what you mean, I’d agree with you.
However, God the Word was united to his human body so that he, Jesus, consisted of a unity of a) Deity , b) a human soul,
c) a human body. What Jesus felt in his body and soul,
God the Word mysteriously experienced, and he experienced the pangs of death, though the Word never went out of existence even for a second. God wouldn’t become lower than the angels?
Read Philippians that Jesus, “though he was in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be exploited, but humbled himself, and being found in form as a man, endured death, even death on a cross.” Also, said Paul, Jesus
“became poor so that we might become rich.”
Now, the Word is eternal. When the Word was wedded to human nature, he did not cease to be the Word (God), so yes, for a time, the Word by uniting to flesh that could die, and united two natures in ONE divine person, did in a way become a little lower than the angels (although the Hebrew text being quoted uses the word Elohim, which is translated angels, but really is the plural form of majesty of the word, God).

But God TOOK ON a human nature in the womb of Mary.
Hence, God uniquely lived in Mary’s womb for 9 months, and
she gave birth to him. Hence, Mary IS the Theotokos, literally,
God-bearer, or as more commonly said in English, Mother of God
(the Son).

All reputable Protestants acknowledge that Mary is
the Mother of God. Calvin acknowledged it, so did Luther, so did Melanchthon, so did Zwingli, so did Knox. That covers all the major reformers of Protestantism. I won’t count Henry VIII because though he knew theology, he was a whoremonger.
They usually don’t go around using that title today, but sometimes they do. I have, for example, personally heard
John Hagee and James Kennedy declare that Mary is the Mother of God.
 
Jaypeeto4 said:
All reputable Protestants acknowledge that Mary is
the Mother of God. Calvin acknowledged it, so did Luther, so did Melanchthon, so did Zwingli, so did Knox. That covers all the major reformers of Protestantism. I won’t count Henry VIII because though he knew theology, he was a whoremonger.
They usually don’t go around using that title today, but sometimes they do. I have, for example, personally heard
John Hagee and James Kennedy declare that Mary is the Mother of God.
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Yeah…but they are all pikers. Ginger2 is free from interpretational error because*** she*** is guided by the Holy Spirit. :rolleyes:

(Sorry Ginger2, but I couldn’t resist…please don’t take it as being mean.)
 
Ginger2 said:
There is one God, not three.

Jesus is fully God and fully man.

God is not a man. God is not lower than the angels. God cannot die.
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You don’t get it because you put limitations on God.

“You heard that I said to you, 'I go away, and I will come to you ’ If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced because I go to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.” John 14:28

Mother of God is discussed in two threads on the Subject. I recommend you take a look at them.

70.87.34.114/showthread.php?t=183427

70.87.34.114/showthread.php?t=164714
 
No need to apologize. I do not claim that I am free from interpretational. I say the Bible is free from error and if it is not in the Bible then it is not necessarily true.

I proclaim that Jesus is the incarnate God and did die on the cross and was risen in the flesh three days later. Only God is free from sin so only God could do this. Jesus is free from sin. Jesus is God.

Jesus is God and you respond as tho you think I am saying he is not.

God is love, but love is not God.
 
The Catholic Church teaches that Mary with born without sin, and never committed a single sin.
 
Ginger2 said:
No need to apologize. I do not claim that I am free from interpretational. I say the Bible is free from error and if it is not in the Bible then it is not necessarily true.

I proclaim that Jesus is the incarnate God and did die on the cross and was risen in the flesh three days later. Only God is free from sin so only God could do this. Jesus is free from sin. Jesus is God.

Jesus is God and you respond as tho you think I am saying he is not.

God is love, but love is not God.
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We Catholics acknowledge that Jesus is God. The Word became flesh. He was born of a woman to redeem us from our sins.
 
Mannyfit: “We Catholics acknowledge that Jesus is God. The Word became flesh. He was born of a woman to redeem us from our sins”

Amen! This is true. The Apostles testify to it.
 
For those Catholics who like surveys on Protestant beliefs, I found one that includes Catholics and Jews & Protestants:

Ten percent of Protestants, 21 percent of Roman Catholics, and 52 percent of Jews do NOT believe in God. simpletoremember.com/vitals/JewsDontBelieve.htm

But don’t feel bad, instead be thankful you don’t live in France. I heard 51% of Catholics there don’t believe in God

re post 658 by Good Fella “43% of evangelicals don’t believe that Jesus was both God and man in one divine person.”.
 
:eek:
Ginger2 said:
For those Catholics who like surveys on Protestant beliefs, I found one that includes Catholics and Jews & Protestants:

Ten percent of Protestants, 21 percent of Roman Catholics, and 52 percent of Jews do NOT believe in God. simpletoremember.com/vitals/JewsDontBelieve.htm

But don’t feel bad, instead be thankful you don’t live in France. I heard 51% of Catholics there don’t believe in God

re post 658 by Good Fella “43% of evangelicals don’t believe that Jesus was both God and man in one divine person.”.
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That is bad. I read another poll about Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist. They say that Catholics 34% believe in Real Presence.
 
Good Fella,

I’m still waiting for you to get back with the info on Gen 3:15 and Luke 1:28
 
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