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CopticChristian
Guest
Jesus died on the cross. Unscramble that one.
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CopticChristian
Guest
To understand Mary you have to understand the Old Testament. The Old Testament Kingdom reveals when you hear in the NT, the Kingdom of God is at hand. Every Jew in those days…would say huh…an heir of David…the Davidic Kingdom…He is the King and Mary his mother the Gabira and Peter the Prime Minister…and the apostles are what…
Fact. Paul made it clear to the Jews that they were not descendants of Abraham rather they were descendants of Adam. Want to dispute that you too are a descendant of Adam?
If Jesus is the first born of all Creation, the new Adam and we are children of God then He is our brother and since Mary is His mother she too is our mother spiritually. Want to dispute that Jesus is our brother?
not such a big stretch.
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batman1973
Guest
Sighs I’ve had my fill of Mary. Obviously we won’t see eye to eye on this matter. But, Mary isn’t the only thing that I see wrong that will keep me from joining. When I first joined this board, I had intended to convert, but after reading many posts, and threads and through much prayer, I’ve decided that it’s not the best course of interest for me.To understand Mary you have to understand the Old Testament. The Old Testament Kingdom reveals when you hear in the NT, the Kingdom of God is at hand. Every Jew in those days…would say huh…an heir of David…the Davidic Kingdom…He is the King and Mary his mother the Gabira and Peter the Prime Minister…and the apostles are what…
Fact. Paul made it clear to the Jews that they were not descendants of Abraham rather they were descendants of Adam. Want to dispute that you too are a descendant of Adam?
If Jesus is the first born of all Creation, the new Adam and we are children of God then He is our brother and since Mary is His mother she too is our mother spiritually. Want to dispute that Jesus is our brother?
not such a big stretch.
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CopticChristian
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Then you should not join. Do not discuss Mary any more as you have had your fill.
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MrZetterlund
Guest
Thank you very much for your faith, recommendations and support. God bless you, Kathleen.
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MartinJordan
Guest
“All generations will call me Blessed”Marianity… I’ll have to remember that one.
Mariology is Christocentric. Everything about her points to Christ.
Why don’t fundamentalists honor their mother?
We should NEVER forget our Blessed Mother and by praying to her we honor her. She will always lead us to Christ.
MJ
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rlim0395
Guest
If Mary was a sinner, not preserved from original sin, then Jesus should have inherited that sinfulness even if He was conceived by the Holy Spirit. But He’s unblemished and without sin!
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IggyAntiochus
Guest
For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. - 2 Cor 5:21
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IggyAntiochus
Guest
There are some who hold to it as a pious tradition. I am not opposed to that. I don’t think it’s an accurate viewpoint, but would not say dogmatically that she either sinned or didn’t sin. I was mainly just addressing your statement of the mentally handicapped and infants, and also the point of Christ being an exception to the “all have sinned” passage.
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PJM
Guest
My friend,
Your second quoted position requires that I ask if you yourself believe what you said; how then can you NOT be a Catholic?
God Bless you,
Pat
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PJM
Guest
So your saying that Christ gave EVERYBODY the keys to the kingdom of heaven referencing Mt. 16:15-19? …
Just how my friend do you reach this conclusion?
God Bless you,
Pat
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CopticChristian
Guest
So then might I conclude that God can create a human being that is without sin?
May I conclude that you pointed out that the wages of sin is death and that death does not necessarily equate to one with sin?
Are you OK with that?
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KathleenGee
Guest
If you are still here, Batman, to get more perspective…our devotion to Mary comes out of the Ecclesia…how people looked at Mary way back then…how they related to her…they so close to the historical and saving and redeeming event of Christ…this is in part Tradition.
Tradition is so necessary because the universal faith reached the universal man…and through the Apostles’ teachings and witness of knowing Christ personally for 3 and a half years…people implemented their faith into church practices and customs…the latter being small ‘t’ traditions.
But the understanding of faith through the apostles…and how people put into practice is indeed Tradition. You may be dealing with fundamentalist type indoctrination that fed on people’s ignorance of ancient Christianity…our roots.
But to understand Mary…it is best we understand her from the source, – the Ecclesia…the source…the communion of believers and a growing discipline in the understanding of spirituality and walk.
If you want to know more about Mary that is in a way better received, why not go to a Catholic church that has strong Marian devotion…and witness the believers’ faith; speak to them how they live out this faith in Christ through Mary.
You are not getting a full perspective of Catholicism here on CAF…you have to go out and be in a Catholic parish for awhile…
Tradition is so necessary because the universal faith reached the universal man…and through the Apostles’ teachings and witness of knowing Christ personally for 3 and a half years…people implemented their faith into church practices and customs…the latter being small ‘t’ traditions.
But the understanding of faith through the apostles…and how people put into practice is indeed Tradition. You may be dealing with fundamentalist type indoctrination that fed on people’s ignorance of ancient Christianity…our roots.
But to understand Mary…it is best we understand her from the source, – the Ecclesia…the source…the communion of believers and a growing discipline in the understanding of spirituality and walk.
If you want to know more about Mary that is in a way better received, why not go to a Catholic church that has strong Marian devotion…and witness the believers’ faith; speak to them how they live out this faith in Christ through Mary.
You are not getting a full perspective of Catholicism here on CAF…you have to go out and be in a Catholic parish for awhile…
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PJM
Guest
IF I MAY INTERJECTAre you OK with that?
God could BUT that does not meet with God’s plan for OUR creation. He did create all of the angels, and both adam and Eve without sin; BUT [a VERY IMPORTANT BUT] in a manner that permitted them to personally choose to DENY GOD and therefore greviously sin.
By virtue of our Godly emmulation of the SPIRITUAL GIFTS of a minf, intellect and freewill which are permnantly attached to our SPIRITUAL Souls; we are able to make the same choses; but have a “natural” propensitiy to sin that the others did not have.
As to your second point: This “death” referencd in this pasage is a SPIRITUAL Death; NOT a physical death. For the Spirit can commit “spiritual sucide” by denying God and by disobeying God; where the peanly [depending on the gravity of the sin] couls commit one to eternal hell [which IS SPIROTUAL DEATH].
God Bless,
Pat
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CopticChristian
Guest
Pat,IF I MAY INTERJECT
God could BUT that does not meet with God’s plan for OUR creation. He did create all of the angels, and both adam and Eve without sin; BUT [a VERY IMPORTANT BUT] in a manner that permitted them to personally choose to DENY GOD and therefore greviously sin.
By virtue of our Godly emmulation of the SPIRITUAL GIFTS of a minf, intellect and freewill which are permnantly attached to our SPIRITUAL Souls; we are able to make the same choses; but have a “natural” propensitiy to sin that the others did not have.
As to your second point: This “death” referencd in this pasage is a SPIRITUAL Death; NOT a physical death. For the Spirit can commit “spiritual sucide” by denying God and by disobeying God; where the peanly [depending on the gravity of the sin] couls commit one to eternal hell [which IS SPIROTUAL DEATH].
God Bless,
Pat
You are answering me and that is noble. You attempt to clarify for me and that is admirable. I suggest you look back at the origin of the discussion. It was Iggy that suggested that the wages of sin is death. Your intervening obviates the ability of Iggy to express thoughts. I suggest you hold back on explaining to me and read where the posts are going. I was not looking for an explanation for me. I was trying to get at what Iggy was thinking. If you believe that you have aided that intent then bless you.
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PJM
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OK:blush:You are answering me and that is noble. You attempt to clarify for me and that is admirable. I suggest you look back at the origin of the discussion. It was Iggy that suggested that the wages of sin is death. Your intervening obviates the ability of Iggy to express thoughts. I suggest you hold back on explaining to me and read where the posts are going. I was not looking for an explanation for me. I was trying to get at what Iggy was thinking. If you believe that you have aided that intent then bless you.
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Bernadette173
Guest
What the heck kind of Bible are YOU READING?!? Mary is considered to be the Immaculate Conception…Born without the stain of original sin first off. Second she DOES deserve to be venerated because God chose her to be born without sin to be the perfected human flesh to carry and give birth to Jesus the Son of God. In honoring Mary the CC is following the example of God Himself. Mary’s special privlidges were not bestowed upon her by man, but by God.
Mary was not a sinner, Mary Magdelane was a sinner. Mary did not need saved by her son, She was created as holy and spotless- without ANY sin as it comes. God [Christ] can only be born of a woman of Mary’s spotless, sinless holiest nature to come into this world to be made man, be crucified and die on a cross for the inequities of other sinners in this world. Christ is God Incarnate By denying the Mother of God [Christ] you also are saying that Jesus is not God, or that Jesus is two persons, one divine and one human. When the eternal Son of God became flesh, He assumed Human nature. Which made it possible to be born of a woman just as we are born of our mothers wombs.
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Bernadette173
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Batman1973,
We call Mary the Moher of God because she gave birth to Jesus. Jesus IS God, the second person in the Trinity. Jesus is true God and true man in ONE divine Person Mary did not exist before God either, Jesus is the Son of the Almighty God from all of eternity, who also became the Son of the Blessed Virgin Mary in time.
I hope this answers some questions.
Peace be with you
We call Mary the Moher of God because she gave birth to Jesus. Jesus IS God, the second person in the Trinity. Jesus is true God and true man in ONE divine Person Mary did not exist before God either, Jesus is the Son of the Almighty God from all of eternity, who also became the Son of the Blessed Virgin Mary in time.
I hope this answers some questions.
Peace be with you
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MrZetterlund
Guest
This reminds me of the absolutely OLDEST reason and Scriptural basis for the belief in Marys Immaculate Conception!! I first recognized it in my PROTESTANT NKJV Jon McAuthur study Bible. In Luke 1:28, whenever the angel Gabriel says, “Rejoice, highly favored one,” McAuthor, a PROTESTANT Bible commentator, was quick to point out that “highly favored one,” in the Koine Greek literally means, “Full of grace.” He was then quick to say, “This portrays Mary as a recipient, not a dispenser of grace.” And thats exactly correct. (She is also, however, also a despensor of grace, since she literally dispenced from her womb Grace Himself.)
But I believe it was St. Augustine who made the point that, “And when there is talk of sin and Our Lady, there shall be none, for the Scriptures call her “full of grace,” and how much grace are we to say that God has given her?” And he’s exactly right. No one can sin and be “full of grace.” Even if it said “state of grace,” it would be a different story, because forgiveness is not conditional, but is the condition of the believer, sin our no sin. However, one cannot allow themselves to be FULL of grace and continue to sin. If we actually allowed ourselves to be “full of grace” then would NEVER sin…
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Bernadette173
Guest
I was hoping someone would agree with me on this one!This reminds me of the absolutely OLDEST reason and Scriptural basis for the belief in Marys Immaculate Conception!! I first recognized it in my PROTESTANT NKJV Jon McAuthur study Bible. In Luke 1:28, whenever the angel Gabriel says, “Rejoice, highly favored one,” McAuthor, a PROTESTANT Bible commentator, was quick to point out that “highly favored one,” in the Koine Greek literally means, “Full of grace.” He was then quick to say, “This portrays Mary as a recipient, not a dispenser of grace.” And thats exactly correct. (She is also, however, also a despensor of grace, since she literally dispenced from her womb Grace Himself.)
Bless You,
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