The 'W" Questions?

[PJM]

Originally Posted by batman1973
Mary. She was a sinner, saved by her son’s grace. The bible makes it clear that ALL have sinned. I’ve said it lots of times before, she is blessed, but deserves no veneration and defiantly not a co-mediatrix or co- repdeprtress status. Christ and Christ alone is our Sole mediator and redeemer. Also, hell is a real physical, unpleasesnt place. Other than, I can’t think of much else. But, that alone is what’s gonna keep me out. I’ve prayed hard about it, and the Spirit tells me these are false teachings and to avoid them.

REALLY?

SO EVERYTING IN THE BIBLE IS LITERAL? …NOT!

“If your eye causes you ro sin pluck it out” [Mt. 5:29]; and how about removing the “log” from your own eye ect? Mt. 7:3-5

MY FRIEND you lack understanding because your pride is BLOCKING the truth from your mind and heart!

Mary HAD to be [in an absolute Moral sense] absolutely PERFECT [ED] by God in order **[to Merit -through Christ] **the “right” to become the Mother of God. [Luke 1:16-35]. IT IS A MORAL IMPOSSIBILITY THAT GOD WOULD ALLOW HIS SON [WHO TOO HAD TO BE BOTH PERFECT GOD AND A PERFECT MAN] TO ISSUE FORTH FROM AN IMPERFECT MOTHER.

How can we know this to be true?

Well in part by the Annunication visit to Mary by God’s Personal Messanger…

Luke 1: [26] And in the sixth month, the angel Gabriel was sent from God into a city of Galilee, called Nazareth, [27] To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary. [28] And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. [29] Who having heard, was troubled at his saying, and thought with herself what manner of salutation this should be. [30] And the angel said to her: Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found grace with God"

One “Full of Grace” cannot have the space [room] for sin. THAT is precisely the point of this ANGELIC proclaimation!…So I have shown biblically and theiolgically that MARY is INDEED perfect. PLEASE show us where the bible demonistrates that SHE DID SIN.

And in PART because God who can neither Lie or deceive and persoanlly TELLS ALL OF US:

John 14:16-18 “[16] And I will ask the Father, and he shall give you another Paraclete,[the Holy Spirit] that he may abide with you for ever. [17] The spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, nor knoweth him: but you shall know him; because he shall abide with you, and shall be in you. [18] I will not leave you orphans, I will come to you”.

John 20:21-22 "[At the 1st. Pentecost: "[21] He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. [22] When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. MEANING WITH GODS OWN POWERS AND AUTHORITY]

And Jesus Himself is the WARRANY of the absolute IMPOSSIBILITY of error in teaching ON ALL MATTERS OF FAITH TO BE BELIEVED AND ON ALL MORAL ISSUES

JOHN 17: "[17] Sanctify them in truth. Thy word is truth. [18] As thou hast sent me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.19] And for them do I sanctify [consecrate and COMMIT] myself, that they also may be sanctified in truth. [20] And not for them only do I pray, but for them also who through their word shall believe in me;

MY DEAR FRIEND BE ASSURED IT IS NOT THE HOLY SPIRT THAT YOU ARE LISTENING TOO

YOU WOULD DO VERY WELL AND MUCH GOOD FOR THE POSSIBILITY OF YOUR SALVATION TO RETHINK YOUR STATED POSITIONS!

God Bless you, KNOW that you remain in my daily prayers,

Pat

 

[MrZetterlund]

MY DEAR FRIEND BE ASSURED IT IS NOT THE HOLY SPIRT THAT YOU ARE LISTENING TOO

YOU WOULD DO VERY WELL AND MUCH GOOD FOR THE POSSIBILITY OF YOUR SALVATION TO RETHINK YOUR STATED POSITIONS!

I think the best advice I could give is for him to not allow himself to be asolutely convicted on the basis of a strong ‘gut’ feeling. I must live my life knowing that I could easily be compelled to convert away to even Mormonism if the evidence I’m confronted with is compelling enough or valid. I cannot simply resign in my religion and be closed-minded to everything else. This is called relativism. In other words, whatever I feel is right is what is right. It is prideful self-jurisdiction and self-justification. Proverbs 19:2 says, “Zeal without wisdom is not good, and he who moves too hurriedly misses the way.” As humans, we NEVER obtain all the answers, or are 100% on EVERYTHING, we are continuously learning and developing. Above all, we must not resign where we are due to fear of being wrong. We must trust that God will guide us through any confontation, no matter how uncomfortable we feel about it. Truth has nothing to fear.

 

[KathleenGee]

Mr. Zetterlund,

Yes, you keep seeking the Truth who can be none other than Jesus…God is truly meant to be for the depths and meaning of our entire being…no creature can fulfill it.

So do you come to the Catholic Church to encounter God or an extension of your own will? We must ask ourselves…am I seeking God’s will in this or my own…however subtle it may be…

It gets down to the Fiat, saying ‘Yes’ to God and carrying His cross in all circumstances…will pm you…

 

[PJM]

=KathleenGee;9125804]Mr. Zetterlund,

Yes, you keep seeking the Truth who can be none other than Jesus…God is truly meant to be for the depths and meaning of our entire being…no creature can fulfill it.

So do you come to the Catholic Church to encounter God or an extension of your own will? We must ask ourselves…am I seeking God’s will in this or my own…however subtle it may be…

It gets down to the Fiat, saying ‘Yes’ to God and carrying His cross in all circumstances…will pm you…

I completely AGREE!

THANKS,
Pat

 

[batman1973]

Wow. Amazing how this thread de-evovled into a “Mary” issue. I have other issues, such as Purgatory, Hell(It’s real, its a physical place) Priestly celibecy, Papal infallibilty, and Sola Ecclesia. This will be my last post here on CAF. I have made my decision to follow Our Lord Jesus Christ, I will be a member of St.Matthew’s Lutheran(LCMS) Church, when they have the catachiesm class in the fall. I wish all of you the best, and may the Peace of God be with you all.

 

[PJM]

=batman1973;9127386]Wow. Amazing how this thread de-evovled into a “Mary” issue. I have other issues, such as Purgatory, Hell(It’s real, its a physical place) Priestly celibecy, Papal infallibilty, and Sola Ecclesia. This will be my last post here on CAF. I have made my decision to follow Our Lord Jesus Christ, I will be a member of St.Matthew’s Lutheran(LCMS) Church, when they have the catachiesm class in the fall. I wish all of you the best, and may the Peace of God be with you all.

MY DEAR FRIEND IN Christ,

Purgatory exist for TWO reasons:

1. God’s Divine need for Justice and Fairness
2. Because of precisely HOW we are Created in the “image and likeness of God”
   ** [Gen.1:26-17]**

Isa.43 Verses 7and 21: “every one who is called by my name, whom I **created for my glory, **whom I formed and made." AND the people whom I formed for myself **that they might **declare my praise.”

Every human being has in emulation of our God:
A mind, a intellect, and a FREEWILL [Spiritual THINGS like God] attached permnantly to our souls. THESE SPIRITUAL THINGS CANNOT BE KILLED NOR CAN THEY DIE. IT IS THESE VERY THINGS THAT ENTER INTO THE AFTER-LIFE.

Good exist because “God is and can ONLY be Good” [therefore He MUST be Just]. God permits evil as a personal choice of humanity and as the way God has chosen for us to PROVE our Love for Him.

Because God is Perfect [which we discussed in the Mary reply] we too MUST [in an absolute sense] be PERFECTED in order to enter into the Presence of God. His Devine Nature DEMNADS this.

“The Origins of the Doctrine of Purgatory
In additions to Holy Scripture, there are Apocryphal books which were left out of Holy Canon as well as Lost Books of the Bible. It is the Apocryphal book entitled The Maccabees that contains the integral beginnings of the doctrine of purgatory. In an obscure passage, the narrator states that it is a good thing to pray for the dead. In these few word lie the complex and fascinating origins of the doctrine of Purgatory.”

Despite the fact that the WORD “purgatory” does not appear in the Bible it’s first biblical reference is in 2nd, Macabees 12: [the word “bible” is not in the bible either]

Each of the following verse apply to Purgatory:

Lev.22: 21 “And when any one offers a sacrifice of peace offerings to the LORD, to fulfill a vow or as a freewill offering, from the herd or from the flock, to be accepted it must be perfect; there shall be no blemish in it.

Rev. 21: 27 “But nothing unclean shall enter it, nor any one who practices abomination or falsehood, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s book of life.”

Mt. 5: 26 truly, I say to you, you will never get out till you have paid the last penny.

Matt.5: 48 “You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.” this explains its need.

**Heb. 2: 10 **For it was fitting that he, for whom and by whom all things exist, in bringing many sons to glory, should make the pioneer of their salvation perfect through suffering."

Space limits a full discussion; but prugatory is a DIRECT result of God’s LOVE for us and HIS Desire to have as many souls as possible join Him in heaven.

ALL Sin has a DUAL nature. And ALL sins incur a penalty that EVEN WHEN FORGIVEN remains. We can think of this as the “public aspect of our sins”. For example: theft, adultry, Gossip, each have a DIRECT impact on others that were effected by our sinful choices. Once again DEVINE JUSTICE comes into the act. Even when Confessed and forgiven the damage casued to these HURT people but be repaid in some manner.

So even though the sinsa are confessed and forgiven; a remaing debt MUST be paid by us. This can occour in a varity of different ways. Thefe can be retuened; BUT what about adultry and Gossip. Even after we say we are sorry; the DAMAGE we caused; the pains we inflicted remains. So prayers, sacrifices, other good works and IN the CC ONLY; INDULGENCES can be earned and applied as payment for these offences.

In Giving the Key’s to Peter and the UNLIMITED powers to “Bind and Loose” Mt. 16:19… Peter and the Church have been given ***unlimited *** poweres of Governance. "remember John 17 and John 20 where jesus trnasfers to the Aposteles and therefore the Church the ACTUAL Powers and Authorty of Jesus Himself? Go back to my previous post and you’ll find them there.

The fact that this “latent” effects of sin EXIST also explains why Jesus Instituted the Sacrament we call “The last Rites” which when properly administered and received has the same cleaning effect on our SOULS as does baptism. Thus making One Perfect and ready for heaven at the time od GREAT sickness, serious surgrery or pending death.[James Chapter 5] YET another reason to be a practicing Catholic.

You know how to reach me if you have additioanl questions,

God Bless you,

Pat

 

[MrZetterlund]

Wow. Amazing how this thread de-evovled into a “Mary” issue. I have other issues, such as Purgatory, Hell(It’s real, its a physical place) Priestly celibecy, Papal infallibilty, and Sola Ecclesia. This will be my last post here on CAF. I have made my decision to follow Our Lord Jesus Christ, I will be a member of St.Matthew’s Lutheran(LCMS) Church, when they have the catachiesm class in the fall. I wish all of you the best, and may the Peace of God be with you all.

Actually Batman, I found that Purgatory was explicitly taught in Sacred Scripture. First things first, you must understand what Catholic believe Purgatory to be.

“The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned. The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:607” (Catechism of the Catholic Church, passage 1031.)

Please notice that the basis of this doctrine is “reference to certain texts of Scripture” that speaks of a cleansing fire.There is a number after the passage “607” that is meant to direct you to a footnote that is meant to direct you to 1 Corinthians 3:15. In context, the passage reads:

“For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each one’s work will become clear; for the Day (most translations capitalize the word “day,” as a proper noun, since it is a reference to Christ who is “the light of the world.” i.e. the one to “bring light into darknes.”) will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire. (notice that it portrays the person as “saved, yet so as by fire” for the foundations that are not Christ. Almost like a sort of purification. Paul then goes on to say,) Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.” (1 Corinthians 3:11-17 NKJV, red text added.)

By the way, you are right to say that Hell is a REAL place, however, that is not to say that it isn’t a SPIRITUAL place. It can be both spiritual and real, but I don’t see how you can consider it “physical.” I mean, unless you can scientifically point to me the location of hell without relying on metaphysical concepts, then yeah, its a spiritual state of existence.

 

[MrZetterlund]

Mr. Zetterlund,

Yes, you keep seeking the Truth who can be none other than Jesus…God is truly meant to be for the depths and meaning of our entire being…no creature can fulfill it.

So do you come to the Catholic Church to encounter God or an extension of your own will? We must ask ourselves…am I seeking God’s will in this or my own…however subtle it may be…

It gets down to the Fiat, saying ‘Yes’ to God and carrying His cross in all circumstances…will pm you…

Well, the beginning of the Catechism literally says, “God created man to know and love Him,” so, in a sense, I am seeking both my own will and His. I am here for what I am certain is everyone’s reason for being here, to know and love God in the fulness of the Spirit and truth.

 

[KathleenGee]

‘Fiat’ is Mary saying Yes to God at the Annunciation, and we try to take on her Fiat in our daily lives.

About purgatory…The kingdom of God is at hand, but to enter it, we must be as little children…the kingdom is the pearl of great price…and we cannot understand how one sin, Adam’s, warped the entire universe…and we cannot get into heaven with any desire to sin.

A priest told me if we do what we are supposed to do every day, accepting our Crosses and being loving in Christ’s power, not ours, and not willing to sin, we will go straight to heaven.

 

[KathleenGee]

Batman…

God bless you in your faith walk…we will all continue to grow in communion with each other, you included.