The warmer months are coming. Should your pastor implement a modesty dress code for church (for both men and women)?

[benedictgal]

I voted no because I think formally implementing a modesty dress code is over the top and unless I’m wrong I don’t think the priest can do this. Where is it written under his prieslty duties that he can enforce a modesty rule? Maybe he can but it would be a bad idea. Who is going to enforce it? The servers, Mass coordinator? The priest is not always availiable. All the people helping at Mass are more in contact with people coming to Mass. Some people might have a different idea what they consider modest. It could create some awkward or hurtful moments.

Now, I do think he could encourage people to dress modestly by talking about it. Our priests did this not long ago, they both asked us to be mindful of where we are and to try and dress appropriately. They even gave examples. I’ve seen much less faded sloppy torn jeans sweat pants etc… They also implemented some other changes in the Mass which help people take the Mass more seriously.

I just think there are ways to do this without being off putting and placing parishners in the role of being clothing police.

However, even the Vatican has norms and requirements for appropriate clothing. You are missing the point. We are not being fashion police, as you claim.

The big bone of contention is the fact that with warmer weather comes the fact that many people decide to go for inappropriate attire. Tube tops, shorts, mini-skirts, spaghetti strap tops, low-rise jeans and strapless dresses are major no-nos.

Interestingly enough, if you want to accuse someone of being “fashion police”, then, you might as well use that term for Our Lady of Fatima. In one of her apparitions to the three young seers, she noted that one of the worst violations centered around immodest fashions. She said that this pained her and her Divine Son. Granted, we are not obligated to follow private revelation; however, what was reported by Blessed Jacinta Marto is certainly in line with the problem of immodesty. If certain fashions were highly objectionable back in 1917, think of all of the immodest attire that is out right now, some 91 years later.

The Church has every right to make a statement as to what kind of clothing is allowed and not allowed. It’s very hard to be reverent when someone shows up with low-rise jeans and a halter top. It’s hard to be prayeful when a man shows up in a tank top and shorts. Furthermore, modest clothing does not mean that you have to pay up the nose for good attire. Mid to high end retailers like Bebe and Cache sell clothing that I wouldn’t wear for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Then again, so do WalMart, Target and Khol’s. On the other hand, these same retailers (along with QVC, Old Navy and Stein Mart) also sell modest attire that is suitable for work and Mass.

For my own part, because of my budget, my wardrobe needs to multi-task. It needs to be both good enough for work and suitable for Mass. Yes, I do have “fun clothes”, but, even these need to be suitable for Mass, as well.

If the Vatican has standards of dress, what is so hard about expecting our own dioceses to follow suit?

 

[Lepanto]

If the Vatican has standards of dress, what is so hard about expecting our own dioceses to follow suit?

My employer has a dress code, and it is enforced. People have been actually fired for repeatedly and flagrantly violating it. The corporate dress code is meant to promote an atmosphere respectful for fellow employees and for our clients. Is the Eucharist or are fellow parishioners any less deserving of respect?

And no, my employer is not the Vatican.

 

[pnewton]

Thank you Lepanto for your response. I believe it to be a good idea know what can and what can not be done. Surely a dress code that is posted, yet not enforced, could be done, as would an emphasis on modesty of dress. It seems to me, though, that ultimately one can not be turned away on the basis of dress. While one might make the argument that a bikini (or worse nudity) would make one not properly disposed for communion, I fail to see where that could be said for a tube top or spaghertti straps.

I like the idea of shawls being available, if a parish is going to have a dress code. However, I guess I have to say I am opposed to it, at least at my parish. We do not have a major modesty problem. People being what they are, conformity keeps people decently dressed.

 

[Good_Daughter]

Our parish priest makes several announcements at the beginning of summer. He reads the dress code from a local club, then asks us why we can’t dress better for the Lord. Very effective!

Clever. I love it!

 

[jazzbaby1]

I like the idea of shawls being available, if a parish is going to have a dress code. However, I guess I have to say I am opposed to it, at least at my parish. We do not have a major modesty problem. People being what they are, conformity keeps people decently dressed.

I had a friend who was church shopping a few years back. She went into an evangelical church dressed in a skirt about an inch above her knee and was provided with a “Lapkin” for modesty’s sake.

 

[e-catholic]

Our Pastor usually addresses it either during the Homily, or mor likely during the after Mass announcements. He does this as soon as the weather starts to warm up. Our Parish is well air conditioned, and there is no reason to have to wear anything that is too cool. It still happens sometimes, but if something like that gets out of hand he addresses it to the congregation. If you are the one who is dressed like a sleeze bag when he give that little talk I am sure you know that everyone knows it is you, and you don’t do it again. Nobody wants to be the guilty one when something like that is brought up publicly.

 

[anamchara]

I voted “no.” Who’s going to enforce it, the modesty police at every door? Turn people away as they’re going into mass? Make them sit in the back of the church?

perfect.

However, even the Vatican has norms and requirements for appropriate clothing. You are missing the point. We are not being fashion police, as you claim.

I said clothing police That’s the Vatican, I’m not there nor is anyone in my parish. If I did go the Vatican, I would follow whatever they wanted me to do including wearing a head covering. It’s the VATICAN!

. Tube tops, shorts, mini-skirts, spaghetti strap tops, low-rise jeans and strapless dresses are major no-nos.

A couple of things, no one wears “tube tops” anymore. They went out in the 70s or 80s, low-rise jeans are fine depending on what kind of shirt you wear with them and shoes. I’ve never seen anyone wear a strapless dress to Church. Mainly young girls wear those to proms or some other very fancy place. Normally younger women. Spaghetti strap tops are very popluar among the younger girls. I don’t ever see anyone coming to Church and wearing them above the age of 25. All three of my girls wear them but they always wear something over them, like another shirt or light weight jacket in the Church. However, if it’s 109 that day. Everyone has on summer dresses and yes many spaghetti strap expect for men of course. They wear light weight polos and light weight pants. But everyone looks very nice and not at all offensive.

The stuff you mentioned, I honestly don’t see in our parish so we don’t need to enforce anything. Of course, like I said. Most dress age apporiate and nicely.

My own opinion is this, keep your eyes focused on the cross and the Mass and stop worrying about clothing on people for heavens sake. I don’t let clothing distract me from what I’m there for just like clapping beneticgal Unless it’s something that seriously stands out, but nothing has so far.

Interestingly enough, if you want to accuse someone of being “fashion police”,

I didn’t accuse anyone benedictgal. I said: *“I just think there are ways to do this without being off putting and placing parishners in the role of being clothing police. ” *

Keep focused on the mass and stop fretting over clothing, no one is being disrepectful to our Lord if they wear a cool blouse or shirt to Mass in 105 degree heat.

 

[Fidelia]

Keep focused on the mass and stop fretting over clothing, no one is being disrepectful to our Lord if they wear a cool blouse or shirt to Mass in 105 degree heat.

this isn’t about dressy vs casual, it’s about that certain body parts should be covered. and i’d like to add, it’s not only a concern in warm weather.

 

[benedictgal]

perfect.

A couple of things, no one wears “tube tops” anymore. They went out in the 70s or 80s, low-rise jeans are fine depending on what kind of shirt you wear with them and shoes. I’ve never seen anyone wear a strapless dress to Church. Mainly young girls wear those to proms or some other very fancy place. Normally younger women. Spaghetti strap tops are very popluar among the younger girls. I don’t ever see anyone coming to Church and wearing them above the age of 25. All three of my girls wear them but they always wear something over them, like another shirt or light weight jacket in the Church. However, if it’s 109 that day. Everyone has on summer dresses and yes many spaghetti strap expect for men of course. They wear light weight polos and light weight pants. But everyone looks very nice and not at all offensive.

The stuff you mentioned, I honestly don’t see in our parish so we don’t need to enforce anything. Of course, like I said. Most dress age apporiate and nicely.

My own opinion is this, keep your eyes focused on the cross and the Mass and stop worrying about clothing on people for heavens sake. I don’t let clothing distract me from what I’m there for just like clapping beneticgal Unless it’s something that seriously stands out, but nothing has so far.

Keep focused on the mass and stop fretting over clothing, no one is being disrepectful to our Lord if they wear a cool blouse or shirt to Mass in 105 degree heat.

Then you haven’t gone to the mall lately because Bebe and Guess? are selling tube tops. It seems everything from the 1970s, from bad fashion to bad liturgical music, is somehow making an unwanted comeback.

I would submit to you that modest attire is very important. Modesty doesn’t mean that you have to go to Nordstrom, Neiman Marcus or Saks to buy clothes. Modesty means that you keep what should be covered under wraps. What is so hard to understand about that?

Perhaps its because I have it in-grained from what the nuns taught me in school, as well as my mother’s example of appropriate dress, that I believe we have to dress appropriately. Remember, immodest close can (and sometimes do) lead people to sin.

From some of the comments I have read in this thread and in similar ones, it appears to me that collectively, we have lost sight of this and have adopted an anything does approach. That is indeed very sad.

 

[anamchara]

this isn’t about dressy vs casual, it’s about that certain body parts should be covered. and i’d like to add, it’s not only a concern in warm weather.

I don’t think anyone is talking about dressy vs. casual as far as I’m concerned we are debating modesty and should a pastor impliment a dress code.

certain body parts? I have no idea what you even mean by that that’s fairly vague but if you are talking about showing half your fanny than yes that would be a problem. I haven’t seen that in our parish.

Again, keep your eyes focused on Christ

 

[anamchara]

Then you haven’t gone to the mall lately because Bebe and Guess? are selling tube tops. It seems everything from the 1970s, from bad fashion to bad liturgical music, is somehow making an unwanted comeback.

I have three daughters I’m not sure why you keep bringing up certain stores. The tube tops that you speak of are not like the ones in the 70s btw. they look like dresses with no straps, they are actually rather cute. They hang way beyond the tummy. Actually, they look like something you would wear when with child But like someone just pointed out, we are not talking about fashion. I agree.

I personally don’t have issues with girls showing thier arms or shoulders with spaghetti straps. We live in a warmer climate so it’s not uncommon. Most of the young people we have in our parish always dress very nicely. I don’t see anything that is gravely offensive.

Perhaps its because I have it in-grained from what the nuns taught me in school, as well as my mother’s example of appropriate dress, that I believe we have to dress appropriately. Remember, immodest close can (and sometimes do) lead people to sin.

Times change. My mother used to not allow us to wear sandals to Church, but we do now. My great grandmother would never in a million years show her elbows but we do now.

From some of the comments I have read in this thread and in similar ones, it appears to me that collectively, we have lost sight of this and have adopted an anything does approach.

Benedictgal, I think you often see extremes when there really isn’t any. I don’t see anyone in this thread who has adopted an “anything” approach. My three girls are nicely dressed and respectful when they come to Church. And wearing clothes that show more arm is not going to lead them into sin for heavens sake. That’s about parenting/upbringing.

I’m done with this thread folks

 

[benedictgal]

I have three daughters I’m not sure why you keep bringing up certain stores. The tube tops that you speak of are not like the ones in the 70s btw. they look like dresses with no straps, they are actually rather cute. They hang way beyond the tummy. Actually, they look like something you would wear when with child But like someone just pointed out, we are not talking about fashion. I agree.

I personally don’t have issues with girls showing thier arms or shoulders with spaghetti straps. We live in a warmer climate so it’s not uncommon. Most of the young people we have in our parish always dress very nicely. I don’t see anything that is gravely offensive.

Times change. My mother used to not allow us to wear sandals to Church, but we do now. My great grandmother would never in a million years show her elbows but we do now.

Benedictgal, I think you often see extremes when there really isn’t any. I don’t see anyone in this thread who has adopted an “anything” approach. My three girls are nicely dressed and respectful when they come to Church. And wearing clothes that show more arm is not going to lead them into sin for heavens sake. That’s about parenting/upbringing.

I’m done with this thread folks

The changing of times doesn’t justify the fact that immodesty is still immodesty. Spaghetti straps are not appropriate at all for the Mass. Furthermore, I happen to live in a very hot, tropical climate. No matter what the mercury reads, I still make an effort to wear something modest. If I were sleeveless, the covering is fairly wide and does not show anything that is not supposed to be seen.

And just because something looks “cute” doesn’t make it suitable for the Mass. Flip-flops and shorts are cute. Are they appropriate for the Mass? No.

 

[Fidelia]

I don’t think anyone is talking about dressy vs. casual as far as I’m concerned we are debating modesty and should a pastor impliment a dress code.

certain body parts? I have no idea what you even mean by that that’s fairly vague but if you are talking about showing half your fanny than yes that would be a problem. I haven’t seen that in our parish.

Again, keep your eyes focused on Christ

Sorry. I realized i misinterpreted your post. I mean, a dress code adressing modesty shouldn’t be about casual vs dressy as much as it should be about skirts being a certain length, necklines being high enough (breasts being one of the body parts that should be all covered), etc. Shouldn’t shoulders be covered too? I thought technically they should be.

 

[ehanway]

I don’t usually notice what someone is wearing unless it is something that really grabs attention. I have seen teens wearing low waisted jeans that show small of the back(and sometimes further south) that I really didn’t want to see. My parents would not let me attend Mass unless dressed respectfully for the Lord and those around me.

This problem is not unique to Christians. My Buddist hairdresser went to her temple wearing a low cut top. Another lady took her to task that she was dressed inappropriately and she would distract the monk.

People just need to think about where they are going and why. Just my humble opinion

Elizabeth

 

[benedictgal]

I don’t usually notice what someone is wearing unless it is something that really grabs attention. I have seen teens wearing low waisted jeans that show small of the back(and sometimes further south) that I really didn’t want to see. My parents would not let me attend Mass unless dressed respectfully for the Lord and those around me.

This problem is not unique to Christians. My Buddist hairdresser went to her temple wearing a low cut top. Another lady took her to task that she was dressed inappropriately and she would distract the monk.

People just need to think about where they are going and why. Just my humble opinion

Elizabeth

Amen to that!

I mean if even the Budhists have a dress code (or, at least, what appears to be one), then that should give you some sort of indication that even they know what is and what is not appropriate.

 

[Lepanto]

I don’t usually notice what someone is wearing unless it is something that really grabs attention.

As a man, I can assure you that I notice what the womenfolk are (or are not) wearing. I think most of the other men will agree with me.

On a number of occasions, I’ve changed my communion line because of scantily-dressed and very distracting female EMHCs.

Believe me…men see things.

 

[ASimpleSinner]

Let me throw in my own ideas since I come for a year-round hot country, and churches are not typically air-conditioned.

In my church (it’s a shrine, actually), there is an announcement said before every single Mass:

“We also humbly request that those wearing sleeveless clothing provide yourselves with shawls out of respect for the sacred Liturgy.”

At the door, the collection ladies keep some light shawls easily draped over a lady’s head, easily covering her shoulders and front. The shawl is well-cut and looks great on the ladies who wear them. If a lady comes in with a, er, textile shortage, the collectoras simply approach them discreetly, hand them a neatly folded shawl and invite them to put them on. No one is ever turned away, and most of the time, those approached are gracious about it.

For better or worse this would NOT play out well in many parts of the US… I agree with it in theory, but thinking over the folks who are “fights waiting to happen” and having grown up in a devisice parish where people thought they could “protest till they got their way”… well I would rather hear a month of sundays worth of good sermons that would actually catechize people into understanding why they should show love for The Lord with their respect. Americans - again, for better or worse - just don’t do well with authority.

 

[Monsterkittie]

I heard of a ‘joke’… not sure if it really happened, but it stresses the importance of dressing modestly for the sake of others around you…

A lady was wearing a very lowcut blouse and went up to communion…

The priest/deacon/minister (not sure who it was) was saying "Body of Christ. Body of Christ. Body of Christ. Christ, what a body! "

 

[maria_rose]

The warmer months are coming. Should your pastor implement a modesty dress code for church (for both men and women)?

Remember, we’re talking about modesty, not stylishness or cost of the clothes.

Yes, definetely! Where I live in Upstate NY it’s not so bad. People are dressed fairly appropriate. When I was still living in L.A. /California it was terrible tank tops, shorts anything,. It was sad.
I believe modesty is very important at all moments of life.

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

Almost every year, I’ve the speedo-wearing people at mass after the bike races.

Other times, after various different races “for the cure” or other types of charities, people dressed in all kinds of ways will come in wet, sweaty, smelly and dirty. A lot of them tend to wrap themselves up in something to be a little more modest, but some don’t. It’s nice that they even thought about coming to mass, as I know some of them who I know think it’s more important to “race for the cure” than to attend mass. I used to be given a guilt-trip all the time about not doing them with the person I knew, which was always a Sunday morning. I’d rather just give them the money anonymously and not do the race if it has to be on a Sunday. (These races are great ways of raising money and awareness - BUT why on a Sunday morning?!?!?!)

Charity events are done during times when most people are available. Raising money for charity is living your faith in the world before coming in to worship.

I am an avid road biker, are you talking about bike shorts? Those are modest coverings, they are padded (for the seat) and go down over most of the upper legs. I am just glad they chose to come to mass after their bike race. It shows that mass is important to them.

There is nothing wrong here, it is just people coming in from the wide world into mass. We should all celebrate for having them in attendance.