The Wasteland of Liturgy

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Mr_Freeze said:
I need to ask this. It is a serious question.

The status quo around here is to basically either shout down the people who are bothered by liturgical novelties or actual abuses by implying that their own faith is somehow lacking, or to simply brush it off and chalk it up to “offering it up”…which, I suppose is noble.

Does ANYTHING bother you enough to be concerned about? Do you acknowledge ANY sort of crisis in the church?
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This does seem to be the response of some on CAF. It is so much of a problem for a few, that they feel the need to respond to any post they may disagree with, just to leave a snarky comment.

I will say there are many more who are willing to engage in civil discussions as long as all parties remain civil. We all tend to get our feelings hurt, get upset we are not being understood, or actually get angry. The solution is to weed out those who shout down other’s opinions, weed out the snark, and just respond to those who are willing to be civil. Of course we must hold ourselves to that standard.
 
goout said:
I sometimes wonder where folks get the energy to worry about things like Mass music. It must be a real luxury.
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I wish I could “like” this 10,000 times.

Tonight I’m going to the benefit for a widow whose husband was gunned down by robbers outside his workplace a couple days before Christmas. I went to his wake last week. It was the fourth wake I’ve been to this year. We lost both my husband’s parents within a couple months of each other, another member of his family died suddenly and tragically, and then there was our friend who committed suicide by jumping in a major river and wasn’t found for a few weeks.

I could go on and on about the opioid epidemic, people dealing with elderly parents’ care, people who have just lost jobs, or have mentally ill members of their immediate family who they are trying to help, or are trying to stay sober, or just lost their parents in a 5 alarm nursing home fire, or are facing the breakup of their marriages…etc…

If being bored during a one-hour Mass is the biggest issue you face all week, you are blessed.
 
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I don’t, and I didn’t say I did.

I said there is a multitude of issues which impacted the Church.
 
My goodness, how some people like to complain!

Some people attend mass in ugly churches with terrible music and horrible homilies, surrounded by people who are dressed inappropriately, are indifferent to the action of the mass, and make too much noise.

Some people attend masses with exactly the opposite.

We could (and do) go on for hundreds or thousands of posts about our personal experiences with the good and the bad.

So what?

Go to mass because of obedience if that’s all that gets your rear end in the pew.

If you want changes at your parish, become part of the solution.

Just FYI, complaining to everyone here does not make you part of the solution.

And constantly nagging your pastor to change everything to your liking is also not being part of the solution.

And saying that you simply cannot do anything over and over and over and over… again – also not being part of the solution.

If you can change parishes, do so. If not, give thanks to God that you even have an opportunity to get to mass. Do you not realize that there really are places where Catholics are lucky to have mass once a month!

And don’t give me this “but shouldn’t we try to improve things” nonsense. Complaining ad nauseum on CAF about how the Church is in crisis because someone is playing folk music at mass does not improve anything.

Make a difference where you are, and then post here about what you accomplished and how.

Now get offline, people, and go be the Light of Christ in the real world!

(there’s the pot calling the kettle black 😊 seriously, though, spend more time in the real world with real people being the real presence of Christ among His children)
 
And you don’t celebrate the sacrifice?

When celebration is used in context of the liturgy we’re not talking about noise makers, ice cream and cake, or pin th tail on the donkey!
 
And, that is the impetus for my questions a few posts back. I know deep down that y’all are trying to help, but the gist of the comments EVERY TIME this topic (or a variation of it) comes up is that:
  1. Problems? What problems?
  2. You need to focus on the important things.
  3. But, it’s allowed, so you must be crazy.
  4. If you question the church, anyone in the church, the Pope, the USCCB, you must think you know more than they do, you prideful so-and-so.
 
No, we don’t “celebrate” the sacrifice. That is an idea I have not heard before. Where does it come from?
 
What do you think we “should” say instead? Given that EVERY TIME the same complaints are being made:
  1. I wish the Mass was more like pre-Vatican II (note that “pre-Vatican II” is about 60 years ago at this point, and also that there are EF Masses available now in many places for those who wish to have that experience).
  2. I don’t like the homilies/ priest/ clothing other people wear/ gestures we make/ music. Don’t you agree this is just terrible?
  3. It’s irreverent, and the problem with the Church is that nobody’s reverent anymore. (And if you disagree with me then you’re probably part of the irreverent problem.)
  4. if I don’t get anything out of the Mass, then why bother going?
  5. If they’d just change the Mass to do the things I want then Masses would be standing room only and membership in the Church would go through the roof.
Edited to add, I’m being serious here. I’d like to know what kind of constructive response we can make other than, “Either find a new place to go to Mass that you like better, or offer it up like Jesus offered up his sacrifice for you.”
 
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Lecturing others is not part of the solution either.

People complain about the Mass because it is important to them, not because they are inherently cranky. The holy ones want everyone to accept an ugly and unpleasant worship service because (for some strange reason) they equate this with piety, as a love of Jesus, of comparing it to the Crucifixion, belittling the Redemption itself!

Reading some of these posts would have you believe that going to a vulgarized liturgy service would - or even should - lead you closer to Christ.
 
Peter_M said:
Reading some of these posts would have you believe that going to a vulgarized liturgy service would - or even should - lead you closer to Christ.
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I’m genuinely baffled by this. Everything in our lives should lead us closer to Christ. When faced with something difficult, our proper response as Christians should be, “Lord, this is difficult. I’m not happy with it. But how can I respond to it in a way that would bring me closer to You? What would You do?”

And if someone else has found a way to cope with a less-than-stellar Mass in a way that works for them and brings them closer to Christ, how is that a bad thing? I would think it’s a very good thing.
 
The first steps need to be cleaning house in Rome, followed by “Vatican III”…
 
The problem is that our faith, and the holy sacrifice of the Mass should be OUR ESCAPE from the sinful world, and instead it (in many cases) has become PART OF the world.
 
Pray for the noted things is my backup plan.
 
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Mr_Freeze said:
The problem is that our faith, and the holy sacrifice of the Mass should be OUR ESCAPE from the sinful world, and instead it (in many cases) has become PART OF the world.
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I never thought of Mass, Jesus, or the Catholic Church as an escape from the world. It’s a way to help us live in the sinful world more fully while trying our best to avoid sin.

I also don’t see how having music that somebody doesn’t like at a Mass is “sinful”. It seems like you’re going a bit far. The OP doesn’t even seem to be alleging that the Church is corrupt, just that the Mass carried out in its current form does not inspire him.
 
Their blood has sanctified those sites to Christ. They wear the crown of martyrdom. I’d call that a success, albeit a sad one…
 
Mr_Freeze said:
Pray for the noted things is my backup plan.
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OK, this is reasonable, but it does not address the immediate problem of the OP’s (and other posters’) uninspired Masses. Change that you pray for may be a long time coming if it comes as all.

Should we respond to these complaint threads with “better pray for Vatican III then”? That seems like worse advice than what has been posted…
 
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