The Wealth-Cap Economic System

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blackforest said:
It’s an interesting question to which I do not have an answers. Regardless, labor costs are the key reason for outsourcing jobs abroad. Look up “why companies outsource.” Most sources will tell you it’s for the low wages.
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I am well aware of that. But it always falls flat in my eyes when GM cries and moans about the high cost of labor, and then BMW moves to South Carolina and makes a real difference in what was once an economically depressed area - while paying the same wages and bennies that American companies whine about.

People working for Toyota in San Antonio make very good money and have enviable benefits. BMW has set up training programs for high schoolers in South Carolina using a model based on the German education system. Hyundai starts grooming engineers from the line workers and pays heavily into their education costs.

Look up what BMW has done for Greenville-Spartanburg, SC. The turnaround in that area is amazing.

I also remember when GM went to Congress and attempted to block these companies from building in non-union states. Not their problem. and Congress told them to go bark elsewhere.
 
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BMW’s case is a bit of an anecdote in a wide sea of evidence.

But why do you think that they locate here?
 
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Money and opportunity to expand. They see the opportunity in a non-union state and they jump on it.

The stupidity of GM and Ford in that regard is just that - stupidity. They’ve destroyed Detroit and shot themselves in the foot. They’re part of the reason no car in my driveway since 1996 has been anything built by the Big Three. I’m not impressed with what they build, the resale is terrible, and the reliability has been questionable for years.
 
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blackforest said:
BMW’s case is a bit of an anecdote in a wide sea of evidence.

But why do you think that they locate here?
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It’s not an anecdote. They’re ALL doing that. LOL what makes it anecdotal if the model works?

That’s great deflection.

But it’s not an isolated case. The Toyota Model is taught in business schools for a good reason. It works!
 
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My preference is for German cars, but that being said the Asian car makers are excellent. Hyundai is the best bang for the buck on the market, and Toyota is a bench mark for excellence. American car makers? No thanks.
 
I’ve got a 2010 Maxima SVT I bought certified used in 2011 with 16K on her. She’s got 112K on her now and has never given me one second’s trouble. I’ve had four Accords - two bought used, one bought for $5K from an auto broker that is still running (and it was a 1995 EX manual transmission bought in 2002).

With that said, my husband has a 2003 Ford Explorer that has also been fantastic and is finally showing her age. But they want almost $50K for the same truck now (and ours is a borderline base model with pretty much no luxuries), and there’s no way that’s happening on our watch.

(I didn’t buy that car, so I don’t consider it mine. I’m off on a technicality. LOL.)
 
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I have a soft spot in my heart for Mercedes…I just cant afford one at the moment 😆 We currently have a Kia Soul and it’s been a pretty good little car. I’ve had Hyundai’s before too 🙂
 
Daimler-Benz nearly went off the rails when it got into bed with Chrysler. Since correcting that their vehicles have improved.

I used to love Volvos. Then they snuggled up to Ford and, well…the offspring is a lesser car for Volvo, although I think the Fusion, despite its dumb name, is probably the best car Ford has built in decades. They’re just not getting $50K out of me for it when I can buy a comparably equipped Subaru for $38K and get the better vehicle.
 
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If there were a wealth cap I would work to achieve it and no more, as would most people. Take away the motivation to produce, inject unnecessary government control, and you have a failed economy, aka socialism.

The great thing about Christianity is that it rightly recognizes charity as a primary virtue that helps both the giver and the receiver. Charity is something that is voluntarily provided, freely given. Coercive means of providing for the poor is not charity and, in my opinion, not Christian.
 
Escabrosa said:
If there were a wealth cap I would work to achieve it and no more, as would most people. Take away the motivation to produce, inject unnecessary government control, and you have a failed economy, aka socialism.

The great thing about Christianity is that it rightly recognizes charity as a primary virtue that helps both the giver and the receiver. Charity is something that is voluntarily provided, freely given. Coercive means of providing for the poor is not charity and, in my opinion, not Christian.
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Yep. And when you start talking about equal distribution of wealth, you’re heading into Lenin territory full steam. There’s a reason the Iron Curtain was shredded, why China isn’t purely Communist in 2018, and why North Korea is a complete and corrupt disaster.

It doesn’t work.
 
I’m curious if you’re able to answer my questions.
Do you believe that all laborers are treated justly, here and abroad? Do you believe that any of their human rights are ever violated? Do employers ever get greedy enough to cut corners and exploit their laborers?
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blackforest said:
Do you believe that all laborers are treated justly, here and abroad? Do you believe that any of their human rights are ever violated? Do employers ever get greedy enough to cut corners and exploit their laborers?
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Sure, human rights are sometimes violated. But it isn’t a good policy, and it isn’t done as frequently as some people suggest.

Take the modern example of Walmart, which is widely assailed for violating worker’s rights here in America.

I don’t believe it, and I’ll tell your why.

Walmart has 2 million associates in America- and with their turnover, probably 10 times that number of ex-associates. If they really jerked around that number of people ,violating their rights, and had that many people with a grudge against them, they’d be out of business. Walmart is the largest store, but hardly the only, people have choices.
 
blackforest said:
So why do you think more U.S. manufacturers aren’t sticking around on American soil?
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The refusal of many states to offer tax breaks is one factor. Hyundai and Honda and those boys go to the mattresses and barter and deal in non-union states. They also get local buy in - they go into the area and say hey, we’re gonna do X, Y, and Z (again, I’ll point to BMW and Toyota, but they’ve all done it) and this is how we’re gonna work with the community and this is how we’re gonna help you. States are getting savvy to this - look again to South Carolina, and all that Governor Nikki Haley (I lived there while she was in office) has done to attract industry to the poorer areas of South Carolina. Even in the town we were stationed in, things have changed dramatically because she got Continental Tire to build a plant there - major hotel chains and restaurants are now moving in, and the town is changing as a result (military bases are considered transient population, and we don’t always attract business like Target and others because they don’t factor the base populace as permanent - learned that from a town councilman in SC that my husband sold a house to). But there are stories like that all over the country.

It’s changing, but very slowly - but it has to, or it’s never going to get better.

It’s interesting that a couple of years ago the governor of Michigan actually went to talk to Toyota corporate in Japan when they were looking to build in Michigan just outside of Detroit - a town that used to have signs up in city and state buildings that said “foreign cars will be towed at owner’s expense” (that’s not a joke, either). Score for her. She knew an opportunity when she saw it.
 
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I see a much different experience in my community from a large corporate employer that has cajoled its way into tax breaks in the name of “job providing” and yet turns around and offshores its manufacturing sector and lays off its local workers. Remember that whenever you defend tax breaks and socialized markets, i.e. corporate welfare, somebody else has got to pick up the slack for those unpaid taxes. This isn’t a riddle: You’re the one doing it, as is the rest of middle class America.
 
blackforest said:
This isn’t a riddle: You’re the one doing it, as is the rest of middle class America.
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I know that. So what? School costs money.

You either have jobs and deal, or you watch jobs go overseas and you wonder why.

I assure you I’m no socialist, either. LOL I’m a raving conservative, to be honest.
 
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Sure, human rights are sometimes violated. But it isn’t a good policy, and it isn’t done as frequently as some people suggest.
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Have you heard of blood diamonds? Human trafficking? The FIFA scandal? Denying or minimizing global human right abuses isn’t doing victims any favors.

Nobody who works their arse off should be poor. I suppose that gets me dubbed a “lib-ee-ral.”
 
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You know, I’m not blind. Don’t shift the conversation quickly like I won’t notice.

I can’t say I’ve heard of Toyota committing human rights violations, but I’ve seen what GM has done to Detroit.
blackforest said:
Nobody who works their arse off should be poor. I suppose that gets me dubbed a “lib-ee-ral.”
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Who said this other than you? And who is denying human rights violations? That’s not even what we were talking about.
 
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Pup7 said:
You either have jobs and deal, or you watch jobs go overseas and you wonder why.
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They ARE going overseas. Despite the tax breaks.

And those aren’t the only choices. It would be lovely to see small businesses get a boost.
Pup7 said:
I assure you I’m no socialist, either. LOL I’m a raving conservative, to be honest.
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Yes, I can tell. “Raving conservatives” have this wee contradictions by which they the get really screamy about government intervention but demand socialized corporations. Well, not all conservatives, fortunately . . .
 
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