The Wedding of Jesus

[S_J_Thaikattil]

Two items just for your information: First, Paul never saw Jesus. And second, read Acts 11:26. It was with Paul that Christianity started about 30 yers after Jesus had been gone. Your own Bible says, that it was with Paul that his followers started being called Christians. Why? Because Paul would preach
that Jesus was Christ. Now, you can see, if faith allows you to, when the idea that Jesus was the Messiah originated, and who was responsible for it.

Ben:

Ben, Apostle Thomas came to India in 52 AD. He had been the most skeptical of all Jesus’ disciples, who would not believe the words of the disciples about His resurrection. He insisted on touching the wounds and side of Jesus to confirm His Resurrection. Jesus appeared (passing through the walls of the room in which the disciples sat behind closed doors) and granted Thomas his wish. Then Thomas exclaimed, “My Lord and my GOD!” Apostle Thomas was able to convert even some ultra orthodox Hindu Nambudiri Brahmins in Kerala after he himself was convinced. So Apostle Thomas was not a gullible, blind faith filled follower of Jesus. None of the disciples were.

 

[Ben_Masada]

The Romans were experts and knew what they were doing. Can you produce anyone other than Jesus who escaped the cross by fooling the soldiers that they were dead. Crucifixion was fatal.

I don’t think the Romans were that experts at knowing what they were doing. I would laugh non-stop to look at their faces after they found out that they had been watching an empty tomb during that Sabbath after the crucifixion.

Ben:

 

[PatienceAndLove]

I am, personally, backing out of this charade of a thread.

To the OP- May God soften your heart to the Truth.

 

[S_J_Thaikattil]

It is a pity Ben Masada does not explain how Apostle Paul could have been responsible for Christianity in Kerala, when it was Apostle Thomas who came in 52 AD (a mere 19 years after the Resurrection of Jesus).

PaarSurrey does not state which fiction he read regarding Jesus, His multiple wives and life in Kashmir. None of it comes from the Quran.

 

[paarsurrey]

PaarSurrey, all this stuff and nonsense about Jesus buried in Kashmir, where did you read it? You never mention your sources. When and by whom was the fiction written? It is fiction conveniently invented to suit the Jesus as mentioned in the Quran, although the Quran does NOT say anything about the many wives of Jesus or his trip to Kashmir. So where did you read this fiction? And who invented it? Hindus have another version of the same fiction, that Jesus went to Kashmir between the ages of 12 and 30, because the NT does not mention anything about His life. (Jesus lived an ordinary life and everybody knew Him as the carpenter Joseph’s son when He started preaching at age 30. Ever heard of villagers in Israel not knowing about someone from their village making a long trip to an exotic and far away land like India?) They just fill that gap with a fiction of their own and try to “prove” that Jesus could have acquired His wisdom only from India and Jesus studied at the feet of Hindu gurus to become a spiritually enlightened man. There must be other fictions of similar variety out there too because silence gives people the opportunity to fill with their own wild imagination to suit their own agendas.

Hi

I wonder going to India surprises you and going or ascending to heavens and sitting on right hand of somebody does not surprise you. I think going to India, is a lesser fiction, in that case.

After all you believe St. Thomas went to Kerala and before that he went to Taxila to meet the King Gondophourus alongwith Jesus. They both met him and Jesus also met King Salvihana, it is mentioned in the Scriptures of Hindus. You should respect the Scriptures of Hindus in which Jesus was mentioned even before the visit of Jesus to India.

That must be an amazing Hindu Scripture which mentioned of Jesus going to India even thousand years before the birth of Jesus.

These are the things which in my opinion you should have appreciated if you love Jesus.

I love Jesus and Mary

Thanks

 

[LilyM]

I don’t think the Romans were that experts at knowing what they were doing. I would laugh non-stop to look at their faces after they found out that they had been watching an empty tomb during that Sabbath after the crucifixion.

Ben:

Hysterical, I’m sure

But they DID know how to kill criminals, just as we do. Remember they weren’t content with just breaking Jesus’ legs, they stabbed him right through the heart with a spear. And as we know from the anatomical detail that both blood AND water (fluid from around the heart) came out - they didn’t miss, either.

Without modern medical care NO-ONE could’ve survived such a stab direct to the heart - even with it can be difficult. Take it from someone who has a family full of doctors and thus knows more than your average punter about such things.

 

[S_J_Thaikattil]

Hi

I wonder going to India surprises you and going or ascending to heavens and sitting on right hand of somebody does not surprise you. I think going to India, is a lesser fiction, in that case.

After all you believe St. Thomas went to Kerala and before that he went to Taxila to meet the King Gondophourus alongwith Jesus. They both met him and Jesus also met King Salvihana, it is mentioned in the Scriptures of Hindus. You should respect the Scriptures of Hindus in which Jesus was mentioned even before the visit of Jesus to India.

That must be an amazing Hindu Scripture which mentioned of Jesus going to India even thousand years before the birth of Jesus.

These are the things which in my opinion you should have appreciated if you love Jesus.

I love Jesus and Mary

Thanks

Sorry to disappoint you PaarSurrey. There is no Hindu Scripture mentioning Jesus. Only a book of fiction.

I believe Apostle Thomas came to Kerala because I happen to be from a village not far from where Apostle Thomas landed in 52 AD, and there is a living, unbroken tradition and lots of corroborative information from other sources. The Syro Malabar Catholic Church celebrates Mass called Qurbana in the East Syriac rite, which originated in Edessa, which was first written by the followers of Apostle Thomas St Addai and St Mari.

Apostle Thomas is revered in Eddessa, Syria as the Apostle of India and it is Eddessa where he had preached before he came to India. Apostle Thomas was marytred in Mylapore, Chennai and his body transported to Edessa a couple of centuries later. It was later transferred to Italy.

I don’t know where you get your fiction about Apostle Thomas in Kashmir or wherever.

Articles of faith in religion with regard to afterlife exists in every religion. Could you please explain Mohammad’s version of heaven for us? And then tell us on what basis you believe it?

 

[paarsurrey]

Originally Posted by adrift:
The Romans were experts and knew what they were doing. Can you produce anyone other than Jesus who escaped the cross by fooling the soldiers that they were dead. Crucifixion was fatal.

I don’t think the Romans were that experts at knowing what they were doing. I would laugh non-stop to look at their faces after they found out that they had been watching an empty tomb during that Sabbath after the crucifixion.

Ben:

Hi

When our Catholic friends are left with no rational argument then they have to hide behind the Roman constable and the Roman expertise, in my opinion. If one thinks intently one would realize that the whole Catholic belief rests on the feeble shoulders of a Roman constable. I think it was not fair for Paul to base his faith on shoulders of this poor constable, in my opinion. Well Paul is Paul; a clever smart guy, in my opinion.

I love Jesus and Mary

Thanks

 

[Ben_Masada]

Ben, Apostle Thomas came to India in 52 AD. He had been the most skeptical of all Jesus’ disciples, who would not believe the words of the disciples about His resurrection. He insisted on touching the wounds and side of Jesus to confirm His Resurrection. Jesus appeared (passing through the walls of the room in which the disciples sat behind closed doors) and granted Thomas his wish. Then Thomas exclaimed, “My Lord and my GOD!” Apostle Thomas was able to convert even some ultra orthodox Hindu Nambudiri Brahmins in Kerala after he himself was convinced. So Apostle Thomas was not a gullible, blind faith filled follower of Jesus. None of the disciples were.

Thaikattil, the only thing I request of you to do right now is to think. Not only Thomas but all the Apostles couldn’t believe such a nonsense, if you read Luke 24:11. When the women reported about Jesus’ resurrection, they all considered what they said as nonsense and an idle tale. Why? Because Jesus had never said anything about such a thing; otherwise they
would have remembered.

Now, when Jesus started appearing to the disciples, he would try to persuade them that he was alive in flesh and bone at being touched and having dinner with the disciples. And Thaikatil, a grown up is ready to go for this nonsense of someone going through doors and walls in his flesh and bone! Please, have mercy on yourself! Jesus was no Houdini.

Touching of wounds is no proof of resurrection, but proofs that he had not died. That he had survived the cross. Do you want a NT quotation for this? Okay, read Acts 1:3. Luke says that, “In the time after his SUFFERING he showed them in many convincing ways that he was alive, appearing to them over the course of 40 days and speaking to them about the reign of God.” After his suffering is no proof that he had died or resurrected, but that he survived the wounds of the cross. I think it’s about time to think with your mind and not with your romantic heart. It’s no wonder that the Almighty placed our mind in a place higher than the heart.
The heart, being the center of emotions, it’s too misleading.

Ben:

 

[S_J_Thaikattil]

Thaikattil, the only thing I request of you to do right now is to think. Not only Thomas but all the Apostles couldn’t believe such a nonsense, if you read Luke 24:11. When the women reported about Jesus’ resurrection, they all considered what they said as nonsense and an idle tale. Why? Because Jesus had never said anything about such a thing; otherwise they
would have remembered.

Now, when Jesus started appearing to the disciples, he would try to persuade them that he was alive in flesh and bone at being touched and having dinner with the disciples. And Thaikatil, a grown up is ready to go for this nonsense of someone going through doors and walls in his flesh and bone! Please, have mercy on yourself! Jesus was no Houdini.

Touching of wounds is no proof of resurrection, but proofs that he had not died. That he had survived the cross. Do you want a NT quotation for this? Okay, read Acts 1:3. Luke says that, “In the time after his SUFFERING he showed them in many convincing ways that he was alive, appearing to them over the course of 40 days and speaking to them about the reign of God.” After his suffering is no proof that he had died or resurrected, but that he survived the wounds of the cross. I think it’s about time to think with your mind and not with your romantic heart. It’s no wonder that the Almighty placed our mind in a place higher than the heart.
The heart, being the center of emotions, it’s too misleading.

Ben:

Ben, there is a reason why I’m a Christian. Luckily for me not only Jesus Himself but all of Jesus’ disciples were also Jews, and thousands of Jews after that. As you admit, they were frantic about spreading the news of Jesus. Something wonderful and unusual must have happened to make them put their lives at risk to spread that special message. I for one am deeply grateful that Apostle Thomas, the Jew Christian, came to Kerala and converted my Hindu ancestors.

And btw, at least more than one OT prophet worked miracles. They were not Houdinis either.

And Ben, God also made sure that my romantic heart would pump blood to my rational brain.

 

[paarsurrey]

Ben, Apostle Thomas came to India in 52 AD. He had been the most skeptical of all Jesus’ disciples, who would not believe the words of the disciples about His resurrection. He insisted on touching the wounds and side of Jesus to confirm His Resurrection. Jesus appeared (passing through the walls of the room in which the disciples sat behind closed doors) and granted Thomas his wish. Then Thomas exclaimed, “My Lord and my GOD!” Apostle Thomas was able to convert even some ultra orthodox Hindu Nambudiri Brahmins in Kerala after he himself was convinced. So Apostle Thomas was not a gullible, blind faith filled follower of Jesus. None of the disciples were.

Hi

If St. Thomas was such a wonderful guy working miracles in Kerala; then Paul’s vision in which Jesus is said to have appointed Paul as his successor must be an untrue one, in my opinion. Paul worked no miracles. Did he?
Paul must work a miracle greater than St. Thomas of making water drops in the air before a Hindu audience. Is it correct? Paul should prove his merit ?

I love Jesus and Mary

Thanks

 

[Ben_Masada]

Hysterical, I’m sure

But they DID know how to kill criminals, just as we do. Remember they weren’t content with just breaking Jesus’ legs, they stabbed him right through the heart with a spear. And as we know from the anatomical detail that both blood AND water (fluid from around the heart) came out - they didn’t miss, either.

Without modern medical care NO-ONE could’ve survived such a stab direct to the heart - even with it can be difficult. Take it from someone who has a family full of doctors and thus knows more than your average punter about such things.

LilyM, that spear-piercing at Jesus’ side was never done. I am not going to repeat here, but I request that you read my thread on that wound which was never done. Be the first!
I have just posted it.

Ben:

 

[paarsurrey]

Matthew wasn’t an eyewitness, John was. Matthew doesn’t mention Jesus’ mother either. The absence of being mentioned is not proof that they were not there. That John says they were is.

Hi

Then the Clergy is wrong to put the Gospel of Matthew in the beginning of the Bible, if he was not an eye-witness as you say. Then why have Matthew in the first place if he was not an eye-witness; then he is good for nothing, in my opinion.

i think you are mistaken. Kindly revise your opinion accordingly, no compulsion.

i love Jesus and Mary

Thanks

 

[S_J_Thaikattil]

Hi

If St. Thomas was such a wonderful guy working miracles in Kerala; then Paul’s vision in which Jesus is said to have appointed Paul as his successor must be an untrue one, in my opinion. Paul worked no miracles. Did he?
Paul must work a miracle greater than St. Thomas of making water drops in the air before a Hindu audience. Is it correct? Paul should prove his merit ?

I love Jesus and Mary

Thanks

PaarSurrey, unless you mention which fiction you have been reading with its own version of the OT, especially the NT, it doesn’t make any sense to continue discussing what you write. One thing I know is that it is not from the Quran, because I have read the Quran myself.

As to the miracle with Hindu Brahmins, the version you have read is not exactly correct. I know the correct version because it is passed on as family tradition because my ancestral village is not far from where the miracle took place.

 

[LilyM]

Thaikattil, the only thing I request of you to do right now is to think. Not only Thomas but all the Apostles couldn’t believe such a nonsense, if you read Luke 24:11. When the women reported about Jesus’ resurrection, they all considered what they said as nonsense and an idle tale. Why? Because Jesus had never said anything about such a thing; otherwise they
would have remembered.

Now, when Jesus started appearing to the disciples, he would try to persuade them that he was alive in flesh and bone at being touched and having dinner with the disciples. And Thaikatil, a grown up is ready to go for this nonsense of someone going through doors and walls in his flesh and bone! Please, have mercy on yourself! Jesus was no Houdini.

Touching of wounds is no proof of resurrection, but proofs that he had not died. That he had survived the cross. Do you want a NT quotation for this? Okay, read Acts 1:3. Luke says that, “In the time after his SUFFERING he showed them in many convincing ways that he was alive, appearing to them over the course of 40 days and speaking to them about the reign of God.” After his suffering is no proof that he had died or resurrected, but that he survived the wounds of the cross. I think it’s about time to think with your mind and not with your romantic heart. It’s no wonder that the Almighty placed our mind in a place higher than the heart.
The heart, being the center of emotions, it’s too misleading.

Ben:

Do me a favour Ben. Go get nails hammered right through your hands and feet, hang on a cross off them for a couple of hours, come back after three days and tell me if you would willingly let anyone touch the wounds.

See the thing about the wounds suffered during crucifixion is that they would HURT - like anything - for a lot more than three days after infliction.

No way would Jesus, unless He was supernaturally above suffering the normal human pain of His wounds, have willingly offered to let Thomas go poking and prodding around such recently-injured parts of his anatomy. Especially when by the simple expedient of eating food in front of them he’d more than sufficiently proven that He wasn’t dead, and would surely have convinced Thomas by doing the same.

 

[Ben_Masada]

Ben, there is a reason why I’m a Christian.

And that reason is… perhaps faith?

 

[paarsurrey]

Thaikattil, the only thing I request of you to do right now is to think. Not only Thomas but all the Apostles couldn’t believe such a nonsense, if you read Luke 24:11. When the women reported about Jesus’ resurrection, they all considered what they said as nonsense and an idle tale. Why? Because Jesus had never said anything about such a thing; otherwise they
would have remembered.

Now, when Jesus started appearing to the disciples, he would try to persuade them that he was alive in flesh and bone at being touched and having dinner with the disciples. And Thaikatil, a grown up is ready to go for this nonsense of someone going through doors and walls in his flesh and bone! Please, have mercy on yourself! Jesus was no Houdini.

Touching of wounds is no proof of resurrection, but proofs that he had not died. That he had survived the cross. Do you want a NT quotation for this? Okay, read Acts 1:3. Luke says that, “In the time after his SUFFERING he showed them in many convincing ways that he was alive, appearing to them over the course of 40 days and speaking to them about the reign of God.” After his suffering is no proof that he had died or resurrected, but that he survived the wounds of the cross. I think it’s about time to think with your mind and not with your romantic heart. It’s no wonder that the Almighty placed our mind in a place higher than the heart.
The heart, being the center of emotions, it’s too misleading.

Ben:

Hi

A wonderful post, in my opinion.

Thanks

 

[S_J_Thaikattil]

S J Thaikattil;4827798:

Ben, there is a reason why I’m a Christian.

And that reason is… perhaps faith?

Thomas the Apostle was never a Jew Christian but a Nazarene Jew. And he never preached about the things of Christianity.

But He left up to you to decide the kind of blood to pump into your faithful brain. Faithful because you prefer to accept things by faith and not by reason. No offense meant.

Ben:

Ben, there is such a thing as faith based on reason. Jesus Christ is not a mythical god. Apostle Thomas was not a mythical disciple. And you know what Apostle Thomas preached in Edessa and India? How pray? And btw, close to the place where Apostle Thomas worked his miracle and converted Hindu Nambudiri Brahmins in 52 AD, is a place known as Judakunnu, meaning Mount of Jews. That is where a community of Jews lived. That explains why Apostle Thomas came there.

My faithful brain does not accept Christianity based on romantic notions but on hard facts. Apostle Thomas I call Thomas the Scientist, not Thomas the Doubter. A scientist believes when the evidence is presented, that is what Apostle Thomas did when Jesus presented the evidence of His Resurrection. To believe that does not require blind faith, merely trust that Apostle Thomas was not a liar.

 

[paarsurrey]

Do me a favour Ben. Go get nails hammered right through your hands and feet, hang on a cross off them for a couple of hours, come back after three days and tell me if you would willingly let anyone touch the wounds.

See the thing about the wounds suffered during crucifixion is that they would HURT - like anything - for a lot more than three days after infliction.

No way would Jesus, unless He was supernaturally above suffering the normal human pain of His wounds, have willingly offered to let Thomas go poking and prodding around such recently-injured parts of his anatomy. Especially when by the simple expedient of eating food in front of them he’d more than sufficiently proven that He wasn’t dead, and would surely have convinced Thomas by doing the same.

Hi

Ben Masada, need not attempt at that. May be LilyM does it sometimes; her fellow religionists I am told are already practicing it in the Philipines, and they survive, I think.

I love Jesus and Mary

Thanks

 

[paarsurrey]

As to the miracle with Hindu Brahmins, the version you have read is not exactly correct. I know the correct version because it is passed on as family tradition because my ancestral village is not far from where the miracle took place.

Hi

Kindly mention the correct detail of the miracle. I am interested.

I love Jesus and Mary

Thanks